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[Akashi]

*Face palms* Do you even watch the show Yz? Half the time the upper god like people end up dead, because of last moment inspiration. Which might be bullshit, but if my S rank goes off the rocker, I'm not going to raise a fuse if some group of C's outwit him. But then again I like Challenging battles, more than curb stomps. The upper should win. But in the case of being at a tactical disadvantage or multiple on one, well Quantity has a quality all of its own. Least it shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand. Least I can, provided I make quests, just put up an Impassible roadblock for a team.

Well all that jazz is just shounen mainstream. You have nakama power everywhere in something like this..

 

[Yzmael]

With quests, it's more a probability thing than a determined outcome/final blow.
Rolling lower guarantees the quest will be quite difficult, and as a roleplayer apart of this RP, Akashi and I ask you guys respect that.
It won't be impossible to do, but it will be hard.
Same thing with a high roll, but in a completely different light.

I've implemented the dice system so that people can have fun with their characters actions. To challenge their skills as an RP'er.

What's the difference between that and implementing a difficulty systems for individual quests? I'm not saying I won't participate in the Dice System, I'm just pointing out my arguments to why it's not as good of an idea as it looks.

At least with the difficulty system I can expect a quest to be difficult and I won't be rendered a victim to pure luck. This'll also impede progress of some players. Say someone gets an easier mission than mine and ends up ending faster and without much difficulty, they'll reach the higher ranks faster than someone who was unlucky with their quests and/or failed. Giving players the option is like offering them an easier road that won't give much of a reward or a higher risk/reward route that will get them better stuff and allow them to reach their objectives more quickly.

*Face palms* Do you even watch the show Yz? Half the time the upper god like people end up dead, because of last moment inspiration. Which might be bullshit, but if my S rank goes off the rocker, I'm not going to raise a fuse if some group of C's outwit him. But then again I like Challenging battles, more than curb stomps. The upper should win. But in the case of being at a tactical disadvantage or multiple on one, well Quantity has a quality all of its own. Least it shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand. Least I can, provided I make quests, just put up an Impassible roadblock for a team.

You do understand most of that is protagonism, right? And that it wouldn't be correct to do the same in an RP with multiple PCs right? Especially if there's going to be PVP action.

 

[RedArmyShogun]

What's the difference between that and implementing a difficulty systems for individual quests? I'm not saying I won't participate in the Dice System, I'm just pointing out my arguments to why it's not as good of an idea as it looks.

At least with the difficulty system I can expect a quest to be difficult and I won't be rendered a victim to pure luck. This'll also impede progress of some players. Say someone gets an easier mission than mine and ends up ending faster and without much difficulty, they'll reach the higher ranks faster than someone who was unlucky with their quests and/or failed. Giving players the option is like offering them an easier road that won't give much of a reward or a higher risk/reward route that will get them better stuff and allow them to reach their objectives more quickly.


You do understand most of that is protagonism, right? And that it wouldn't be correct to do the same in an RP with multiple PCs right? Especially if there's going to be PVP action.

Firstly, rewards should be aligned with difficulty.

And of course its Protagonism. In case you haven't noticed, the RP is named after one faction, that's set to be the hero's. If that group isn't given some form of favoritism I'll be surprised. Antagonists largely exist for one purpose. To be beaten, or corrected. This is an RP based on a shonnen setting. If we throw away that element, or make all the quests easy, then what's the point?

If we base it purely on power aspects, and the rule of might makes right, which while normally true, then that pretty much stomps on the spirit of the RP, and we might as well just bend over for the Zeraf replacement when he shows up. As if we keep this purely to realism, he wins, no questions asked.

I'm not happy with the System, but I don't want a system where, I can rub shoulders with the GM's and Rollerstomp everyone.

 

[Jargo]

First of all, thanks to both @Akashi and @Ali for adjusting those dice rules so much and taking stock of all the feedback we gave you even if some of it, on my part at least, may not have been given in the politest of manners. I'm just stating this so you know my insistence on keeping this conversation going is not predicated upon ungratefulness or lack of understanding.

I see, after reading the new rules and your clarification I admit that all makes sense, but...

If the dice is going to be just a security measure in case people aren't mature enough to deal with each other, and I would agree we do need one, why not make that final judgement up to you guys as the GMs, instead of giving it to blind chance? Personally, one of the things which completely won me over at the very start of this RP was that you guys were committed to making sure each fight ends up being fair and with a fair outcome, in your roles as GMs. If you're going to read through everything anyway, in order to keep track and general order, than I'd have much more trust in you two making the "final punch" decisions rather than a dice. Even more so, because usually if the person doesn't have the necessary maturity to admit a defeat they'd be the one losing out on strategy.

Now, I completely understand if you guys don't have the time or the desire to be the judge of every such fight. That is completely fine and I can sympathise. If that's the case, I would suggest we indeed do use the dice system for starters, however, as the roleplay moves on, you could make a committee of the people who have a history of a few battles resolved without the need of the dice security check system, and have them debate and, eventually, vote on the winner of these fights that go beyond their respective posting limit. Of course, people would not be forced to take part in this unless they want to.

 

[RedArmyShogun]

I could support such an idea. With another person being brought in at the event of a tied vote. Someone random and to be kept secret.

 

[Zarrock]

I personally am all for voting on outcomes of fights. It creates the need for creativity and imagination in your posts to impress your readers so they'll vote for your character. I feel that it is much more fair than a dice roll.

 

[Yzmael]

Firstly, rewards should be aligned with difficulty.

And of course its Protagonism. In case you haven't noticed, the RP is named after one faction, that's set to be the hero's. If that group isn't given some form of favoritism I'll be surprised. Antagonists largely exist for one purpose. To be beaten, or corrected. This is an RP based on a shonnen setting. If we throw away that element, or make all the quests easy, then what's the point?

If we base it purely on power aspects, and the rule of might makes right, which while normally true, then that pretty much stomps on the spirit of the RP, and we might as well just bend over for the Zeraf replacement when he shows up. As if we keep this purely to realism, he wins, no questions asked.

I'm not happy with the System, but I don't want a system where, I can rub shoulders with the GM's and Rollerstomp everyone.

I don't agree with protagonism or favoritism. If people chose Red Dawn just because it's the protagonist guild and then they think that they'll roflstomp whatever gets in their way, then what's even the point of making other guilds as an option? Does that mean I made my character or that you made your character just so that they are defeated and then eventually mend their ways/actions or just die? Do you really believe in that, RAS?

I believe in what you said. Strategy other key factors should play a role in the decision most definitely, but that hardly means a group of C-Ranked have permission to beat a Guild Master just 'cause they're the protagonist. And as a matter of fact, the characters in the series get stronger as time progresses. So in a sense, whenever they fight their "godlike" enemies, they're already far stronger than when they first appeared. I would honestly dislike this kind of thing to happen here(I mean, having characters discover a sudden supreme power during a battle and then defeating mine just because they're protagonists). My character isn't even evil, I'm proposing this because if she were to be, it'd be unfair.

I agree with Zarrock and believe the Dice System to be unnecessary. In fact, I go even farther and say that it is even unnecessary in the quest system.

 

[Akashi]

@Aleksandar - Believe me, we've considered what you said. That the GMs would have the final words. However, with this I believe a conflict is inevitable. I mean, of course, we can do exactly that, but then if one ends up getting our votes then there's the "favoritism" issue. I know that there is always someone out there who would end up creating drama or issue with this precisely because.. "The GMs are taking his side all the time or most of the time."

"It's like, they want him to come out victorious.."

That is the only factor that would create an issue. Favoritism.. Yeah..

 

[DustBunny]

Honestly, @Ali and @Akashi, I can agree with what @Aleksandar is saying about the gaggle of players voting or you as GMs deciding (If this is potential for replacing the die system should it not fall through as planned) BUT I still firmly stand by my statement that (excuse the caps) EVERYONE JUST NEEDS TO CHILL AND GIVE THE DICE AN HONEST CHANCE before we completely try to act like a democracy (when it's obviously not) and try to rid the die system before we can even test it

 

[xLarius]

Honestly, @Ali and @Akashi, I can agree with what @Aleksandar is saying about the gaggle of players voting or you as GMs deciding (If this is potential for replacing the die system should it not fall through as planned) BUT I still firmly stand by my statement that (excuse the caps) EVERYONE JUST NEEDS TO CHILL AND GIVE THE DICE AN HONEST CHANCE before we completely try to act like a democracy (when it's obviously not) and try to rid the die system before we can even test it

Sheesh guys, put some faith into the GM's this is kind of their call, stop rebelling before you've even gotten a taste. If it's that bad it's only an IF IT CALLS FOR. (Aka you haven't decided on the victor.)
Sorry it just bugs me that the GM's are using time repeating the same messages over and over again when they could be working on the IC forum.

 

[Zarrock]

I know that there is always someone out there who would end up creating drama or issue with this precisely because.. "The GMs are taking his side all the time or most of the time."

This is why I proposed earlier that we put the vote up to the entire RP instead of just the GM's. There's a large enough pool of voters that there would be no bias in the decision, and I think it would be the most fair way to decide a fight's victor.

Also,

stop rebelling before you've even gotten a taste.

I've done RPs with dice combat before man. To do it right, you need stats and effects and all sorts of complex things to make it work right so that it isn't just chance. GMs already said there would be no stat system. Therefore, if proper dice combat needs a stat system, and there will be no stat system, then we should not use dice combat.

 

[DustBunny]

Sheesh guys, put some faith into the GM's this is kind of their call, stop rebelling before you've even gotten a taste. If it's that bad it's only an IF IT CALLS FOR. (Aka you haven't decided on the victor.)
Sorry it just bugs me that the GM's are using time repeating the same messages over and over again when they could be working on the IC forum.

^ I'm completely on the same page here~

 

[RedArmyShogun]

I would like to add two factors.


One you are ranked up by your respective Leaders.

Two the GM's have to agree.

If you get Mission A, and "Surprise mutha fucka's" Dorris the lady who's dogs you are walking ends up being a serial killer you have to put down, and Team Two gets a mission where they just have to beat up one bully. And your leader promotes you both equally, well one, your leader should be replaced. Two, the GM's I doubt will stand for it.

Not all the missions should have dice rolls, nor should they all be combat based. Some should be relief missions, or clearing natural disasters, such as landslides, some missions should have a diplomatic means of being dealt with. There are lots of factors to be looked at. And we may have variations in the missions. I wasn't going to mention this, but I've been helping to make a few, and my list is fairly diverse and filled with complicated situations, and even a few rollostomps.

In this case Mission rewards I'm expecting to be more Jewels based, items, or contacts. Not Exp dumps. Also outside of scripted encounters, I doubt PVP is going to be that common, or so I assume.

 

[DustBunny]

Not all the missions should have dice rolls,

Ali and Akashi have assured us that not all quests will need dice rolls, but there are some where rolling will be required, so there shouldn't be too much of an issue on that front of the spectrum ^_^

 

[Teiso]

I've done RPs with dice combat before man.

Everyone does thing differently, assuming the dice system won't work here because "you've seen it before" or "it's not the same, so it's destined to fail" is just negativity, plain and simple. Wait and see how it plays out, and stop bitching about how you know it's going to fail, because until it's put to the test you can't judge the system Ali and Akashi worked hard on.

 

[RedArmyShogun]

Its pointless to argue this. There is no system that works or pleases everyone. Why PvP often fails.

With the dice...

"I only lost because of luck! >_<"

With votes

"I ONLY LOST BECAUSE OF BIAS!"

with some common agreement.

Hahaha, see you guys next month.

Most people don't like to lose, unless they play a role they know likely will. Its no fun if the bad guy actually manages to burn down the whole world.

Nb4 We all are adults and can follow the judges.

Because, yeah, I've never seen some of those selfsame people later leaving in a rage.

 

[★Under The Stars★]

Hello all! I'm sorry to put forth this opinion when I blatantly stated in the PM that I am against the system, but I believe we should put this issue to rest for the time being.

I love that all of you are communicating, please don't get me wrong! I'm glad that we're all sharing opinions and such because that can create all sorts of special bonds! And I think that can be really important when writing with someone, but I think that there is a time and place for some of the things that have been said.

Although, I can't hear the true inflection of your voice through text, so it's incredibly hard to tell when people are being rude or just trying to state their opinion. In all honesty, even though I'm against the system the phrasing of some words has made uncertain as to the level of respect that we're giving each other.

Please please please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say here. I'm not pointing any fingers or anything, but like @DustBunny said, please put faith into the system. I know that it might seem unfair, but guess what? For my guild, I'm not going to require many dice rolls. I think the true fun in roleplaying can be the freedom behind action, but the dice can give a restriction on some of your choices. (Stopping myself before I get on a soap box about dice rolling, since I just said we should put this issue to rest. XD)

So I don't believe there will be as much restriction as you think. I will certainly not be enforcing dice rolling on quests as much as some other Guild Masters might. By stating this, I am also hoping that the other Guild Masters will come to realize that not all battles will have to be determined by dice rolls. Most of the enemies I have set up are non-wizards, which I believe would be beaten easily. But anyway, before I go off on a tangent (more than I already have ''^ ^), please put this issue to rest and let's focus on trying to have as much fun as possible together!

(Although I'm a hypocrite and stated about fifty million of my opinions in this post... ''^ ^)

 

[-QT-]

Ima cheat and not read through EVERYTHANG that's been posted and ask this question.....

The dice system is a precaution for people who can't decide a winner correct?

 

[Zarrock]

Ima cheat and not read through EVERYTHANG that's been posted and ask this question.....

The dice system is a precaution for people who can't decide a winner correct?

Right. The argument is whether there is a better precaution.

 

[Yzmael]

Its pointless to argue this. There is no system that works or pleases everyone. Why PvP often fails.

With the dice...

"I only lost because of luck! >_<"

With votes

"I ONLY LOST BECAUSE OF BIAS!"

with some common agreement.

Hahaha, see you guys next month.

Most people don't like to lose, unless they play a role they know likely will. Its no fun if the bad guy actually manages to burn down the whole world.

Nb4 We all are adults and can follow the judges.

Because, yeah, I've never seen some of those selfsame people later leaving in a rage.

I honestly don't even care anymore at this point. If people don't like the system, just avoid fights and dice-rolling missions until it is resolved if it'll stay or not. I just want to see the IC up and running...

I just want to say this, people need to stop saying "let's put faith in the system they created". What they created might be, later on, a fixated system that many people don't agree upon. So it is much, much better to decide it now than it is to let the decision fall off later and it'll become a hindrance to the RP, stopping the entire IC, causing certain missions to be put into a full-stop if not worse. So, solving this now and here will save the GM's a lot of work.

Seeing as a lot of the system can be avoid and I believe that the Guild Master for my Guild(Zarrock) doesn't much agree with the dice system, I can expect there to be very few dice-rolling missions if any, I don't even mind anymore. Just make the decision now to avoid headaches later, that's all I'm saying.

Also, I'm sorry if come off as rude to some people. This is just my way of laying down my opinion. I believe I have not offended anyone here, but I'm deeply sorry if I did.