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Nah, I actually agreed with most of that since most of the DW episodes I watch are usually when I'm bored and turn the Direct Tv thing on so I have no choice but to watch them out of order in the first place. I mean, I've watched a majority of 11's episodes, a few of 9's and more of 10's so it'll hardly be too big of a problem for me to just random click episodes to watch

Ah, yeah, that's a big part of how I got into Doctor Who as well. It started with some friends of mine hand-picking a couple episodes to introduce me to the show, and then I just watched whatever episodes I could find on actual TV.

The episode that made me want to watch the series in-order, though, was Let's Kill Hitler. Because I got through that and thought "Wow I have no idea what the fuck just happened".

Because yeah, Moffat's era is a bit less skip-around-able.

But um yeah. o3o If you've already skipped around that much then you might as well watch it straight-through if you get the chance.
 
Question: do we hate Moffat or do we just dislike him? I never know what to think of Moffat
 
Question: do we hate Moffat or do we just dislike him? I never know what to think of Moffat

Well the first thing I'd say (in general) is that you really shouldn't ask other people what your opinion should be on something. That's for you to decide, I think. :P

If you ask me, though, Moffat gets a lot more flack than he deserves. People act like he's the worst thing to happen to the show and he's really not (John-Nathan Turner is). Sure, he can be fun to make fun of sometimes, and every once in a while he does things that make me think "Ugh, really?", but at the same time he does a lot of things that I really love.

People say that they don't like his over-arching plots, and I think he's gotten better at that as of late. His early ones, though? Yeah, the season 5 plot especially was a bit... eh, but, not terrible to sit through -- just had a lot of plot holes when you really stopped to think about it.

People seem to forget sometimes that he also wrote some of the show's most universally-praised episodes, like Blink. :/ What's weird about that, though, is that he procrastinated on Blink and wrote it at like the last minute, and yet it turned out amazing. However, when he has as long as he wants to come up with some big, complex plot, it somehow makes less sense and turns out more confusing... *scratches head*

But yeah, overall, Moffat certainly has his flaws, but I don't think he's terrible. The series has had worse showrunners like John-Nathan Turner.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't mind seeing someone take over for Moffat in the near future. He's been running things for quite a while and it would be nice to see someone else do something with it, especially since Moffat's style seems to be getting a bit... burned out, I think. It would be especially nice to see a new showrunner take over during Capaldi's stay, though, as opposed to after -- since the fact that Moffat took over for Davies at the same time that Smith took over for Tennant is one of the main reasons why there's such a ridiculous Tennant/Smith split in the fanbase. :/ It would suck to see that happen again.
 
Who is this John Nathan-Turner you speak of?

The showrunner who took over during Tom Baker's final season (when the show was at the height of its popularity) and stayed with the show all the way to when it was driven into the ground in 1989. And yes, I am basically saying he was the reason for the show's decline (or at least a large part of it).

Just a fraction of some of the shitty changes he made to the show were Five, Six and Seven's stupid wardrobe choices (Six being the worst offender by far...) and giving the show some of its most annoying companions for apparently really stupid and gimmicky reasons ("Hey, if we have an American companion, that'll make the show more popular in America, riiight?").

Overall, just not a good mark on the show's history.
 
Just a fraction of some of the shitty changes he made to the show were Five, Six and Seven's stupid wardrobe choices (Six being the worst offender by far...) and giving the show some of its most annoying companions for apparently really stupid and gimmicky reasons ("Hey, if we have an American companion, that'll make the show more popular in America, riiight?").
I've heard of relatively good things about the actress and her accent who played the American companion though, so was it just the choice of adding in an American companion that was, I admit, stupid and gimmicky?

I've never even seen a picture of Six, so I wouldn't know *shrug*
 
I've heard of relatively good things about the actress and her accent who played the American companion though, so was it just the choice of adding in an American companion that was, I admit, stupid and gimmicky?

*blink, blink* Peri? Are we both talking about Peri?

Because fuck she was annoying.

I was going to mention Tegan, a companion he wrote into the show just to have an Australian companion for the same reason, but like, Tegan was actually pretty cool, so I'm not going to yell at him for that one.

Peri, though, on the other hand...

I've never even seen a picture of Six, so I wouldn't know *shrug*

Sixth_Doctor.jpg
 
*blink, blink* Peri? Are we both talking about Peri?

Because fuck she was annoying.

I was going to mention Tegan, a companion he wrote into the show just to have an Australian companion for the same reason, but like, Tegan was actually pretty cool, so I'm not going to yell at him for that one.

Peri, though, on the other hand...
I don't know, maybe? Unless there was another American companion, then probably. I was lurking on discussions on TvTropes when I heard good things about her accent.
Well that's suitably gimmicky. and stupid. i want to wear it for the shits and giggles though
 
I don't know, maybe? Unless there was another American companion, then probably. I was lurking on discussions on TvTropes when I heard good things about her accent.

*blink, blink, blink* Her accent is probably one of the reasons why she sounds so shrill and whiny all the time.

Well that's suitably gimmicky. and stupid. i want to wear it for the shits and giggles though

It's rather amusing to photoshop that same outfit onto other Doctors, at the very least.

six%2Bof%2Bone.jpg


Matt%2Bin%2BSixie%2BCoat.jpg


It kind of works on Eleven, actually. XD
 
I can see Eleven wearing that in utter seriousness to be honest.

*blink, blink, blink* Her accent is probably one of the reasons why she sounds so shrill and whiny all the time.
LOOK KAGA I DON'T KNOW THIS, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY EXPOSURE TO CLASSIC WHO but they were saying something about how Perri's actress's American accent was good enough to fool American watchers into believing she was actually American
 
LOOK KAGA I DON'T KNOW THIS, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY EXPOSURE TO CLASSIC WHO but they were saying something about how Perri's actress's American accent was good enough to fool American watchers into believing she was actually American

Ah. Well yeah, it was believable, at least. Still annoying to listen to, though.
 
Pshhhh, like Sherlock isn't one of the younger fandoms, too.
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But Sherlock doesn't act like a child! :3
I can't even sit through more than one episode of Sherlock at a time. I mean I like it a lot, but... my brain needs a break, yo. They're so long that I can only watch one episode at a time.
But I marathoned it just fine... :/
Hell I marathoned 4 seasons of Game of Thrones (minus the first 4 episodes) in 2 days.

That was an amazing two days.
season 1 was kind of a mess.
But I liked season 1... :(
Other than Rose... I don't like Rose.
just had a lot of plot holes when you really stopped to think about it.
Uh... Kaga.
You're talking about a guy who could always fix all his issues by more time travel.

PLOT HOLES ARE EVERYWHERE!!!
since the fact that Moffat took over for Davies at the same time that Smith took over for Tennant is one of the main reasons why there's such a ridiculous Tennant/Smith split in the fanbase. :/ It would suck to see that happen again.
I still like Matt Smith the best as the doctor and can seperately recognize that Tenants episode's were better written. D:
Matt Smith just pulls off the Doctor so well.
 
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Dear god, that outfit just burns my eyes! And I normally don't even care one bit about outfits D:.
 
But I marathoned it just fine... :/
Hell I marathoned 4 seasons of Game of Thrones (music the first 4 episodes) in 2 days.

That was an amazing two days.

Eh. That's just you, then.

I for one can't marathon things that easily without breaks of some kind. That's why it's a heck of a lot easier for me to marathon something like, say, Adventure Time than Sherlock -- because the episodes are so much shorter.

But like, that's just me. Maybe my ADD's to blame. I dunno; never thought about it too much.

But I liked season 1... :(
Other than Rose... I don't like Rose.

Nothing wrong with you liking it. But like. It still kind of was all over the place. :/ They tried to do too much in one season if you ask me.

Uh... Kaga.
You're talking about a guy who could always fix all his issues by more time travel.

PLOT HOLES ARE EVERYWHERE!!!

Well yes but it's considerably worse in Moffat's writing than it is in Davies' because of the convoluted and complex season-long arcs. For example, I was trying to explain the whole crack in the universe thing to Henry when she pointed out kind of a massive plothole that for some reason I never thought about;

If Amy's parents got sucked into the crack in the wall, and were therefore erased from existence, and therefore never existed... how was Amy even born in the first place?

YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF A MASSIVE PROBLEM. And it's something you don't see as often Davies' era because even his season finales were mostly self-contained, and the only real buildup each finale had was a series of subtle foreshadowing and little Easter Eggs, like all the appearances of "Bad Wolf" in season 1, the Saxon campaign ads in the background in season 3, and all the hidden appearances of Rose in season 4 -- all of which you're a hell of a lot more likely to notice on your 2nd viewing, at least in large numbers.

There is a reason why Let's Kill Hitler was the episode that made me want to watch Doctor Who straight forward. I was just way too fucking confused because Moffat puts so much more continuity between his episodes.

I still like Matt Smith the best as the doctor and can seperately recognize that Tenants episode's were better written. D:
Matt Smith just pulls off the Doctor so well.

Well yeah, and it's good that you can compare actors and writers separately. But like... part of the reason why there's such a huge Tennant/Smith split as well as a Davies/Moffat split is because everything changed all at once, and that just isn't as good for the show as a more gradual transition between things is. Not only did we get a new Doctor, but also a new showrunner, new companions, and even a new bloody sonic screwdriver. It's difficult to not compare eras when everything changes that suddenly.

Compare that, then, to regenerations done right in New Who -- Eccleston to Tennant and Smith to Capaldi -- both of which probably went a lot better because they happened without switching showrunners in the process, and also because they kept the companion the same, which makes transitioning so much easier because you have something familiar to hold onto. Hell, there's really only one other proper regeneration in the series where the Doctor didn't have a companion with him -- and that was from Two to Three, which has been noted as one of the biggest changes in the show's history as they also changed a billion things at once (I mean, hell, this was when they made the switch from black-and-white to color, among other things).

And they wonder why so many fans stopped watching once Moffat took over...
 
But like, that's just me. Maybe my ADD's to blame. I dunno; never thought about it too much.
Combined with the fact that I have Autism? Which generally allows people to obsessively focus on something more easily?

I think we just found the differing factors. :P
Nothing wrong with you liking it. But like. It still kind of was all over the place. :/ They tried to do too much in one season if you ask me.
Not really? o.O
Unless if I missed something vital Eccelsons entire run was just a Dalek ran game show, meat grinder thing they called Bad Wolf.

Regardless though it will always have brownie points with me because that's the season to not only introduce Captain Jack but have him as a constant companion. :3
Flipping ditching him with David Tenant I outta *grumble grumble*

Plus they guest starred Simon Pegg for an episode.
That was great. :3
If Amy's parents got sucked into the crack in the wall, and were therefore erased from existence, and therefore never existed... how was Amy even born in the first place?

But yea, that's a pretty good catch which I never even noticed.
YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF A MASSIVE PROBLEM. And it's something you don't see as often Davies' era because even his season finales were mostly self-contained, and the only real buildup each finale had was a series of subtle foreshadowing and little Easter Eggs, like all the appearances of "Bad Wolf" in season 1, the Saxon campaign ads in the background in season 3, and all the hidden appearances of Rose in season 4 -- all of which you're a hell of a lot more likely to notice on your 2nd viewing, at least in large numbers.
I've never re-watched sadly so I can't really comment on this. :/
Moffat puts so much more continuity between his episodes.
Yea... Now that you mention it that does tend to be a thing with him. :/
Well yeah, and it's good that you can compare actors and writers separately. But like... part of the reason why there's such a huge Tennant/Smith split as well as a Davies/Moffat split is because everything changed all at once,
I know that.

I'd understand why that would make people go "I don't like Matt Smith" *if* the directing as so bad it sucked the motivation out of the actors (Ex: Peter Dinklage in Destiny).
But that's not what happened, Matt Smith was able to do an outstanding job so I don't relate to idea of hating an actor for non-actor relevant parts of the show.
It's like going "This Pickle Jar as a bad design! Therefore this pickle tastes yucky!".
Compare that, then, to regenerations done right in New Who -- Eccleston to Tennant and Smith to Capaldi -- both of which probably went a lot better because they happened without switching showrunners in the process, and also because they kept the companion the same, which makes transitioning so much easier because you have something familiar to hold onto. Hell, there's really only one other proper regeneration in the series where the Doctor didn't have a companion with him -- and that was from Two to Three, which has been noted as one of the biggest changes in the show's history as they also changed a billion things at once (I mean, hell, this was when they made the switch from black-and-white to color, among other things).
I do agree that the Tennant to Smith transition was the worst.
But still, Matt Smith does an amazing job acting as the Doctor.
Far surpasses Eccelson, Tennant and Capaldi in my mind.
And they wonder why so many fans stopped watching once Moffat took over...
Traitors! >:(
 
Unless if I missed something vital Eccelsons entire run was just a Dalek ran game show, meat grinder thing they called Bad Wolf.

Uhhh. The Dalek game show thing only took up a small handful of episodes, though.

I've never re-watched sadly so I can't really comment on this. :/

:3 Oh you should. It's so much fun to look for any instance of "Bad Wolf" in season 1 (of which there are many), and all the "Vote Saxon" posters in season 3, etc.
 
Uhhh. The Dalek game show thing only took up a small handful of episodes, though.
It's all it was really building up to though.
Everything else was one off adventures (save for face of Boe. But that was majority Tennant).
And one off things is normal for Doctor Who. :/
:3 Oh you should. It's so much fun to look for any instance of "Bad Wolf" in season 1 (of which there are many), and all the "Vote Saxon" posters in season 3, etc.
But I still have a ton of shows I need to watch the first time. D:
 
It's all it was really building up to though.
Everything else was one off adventures (save for face of Boe. But that was majority Tennant).
And one off things is normal for Doctor Who. :/

Exactly. Which is why it makes perfect sense to consider when talking about the fact that the series does not know what it's trying to be.

I mean, that's why you have episodes that are a lot darker and more serious, like the Empty Child, vs things like the Slytheen (>>). And that's why you have episodes like Father's Day that show consequences of messing with time that never come up again ever despite seemingly being an episode that's trying to establish things to bring back later, because they're still testing what works and what doesn't.

I really can't blame them, honestly, but... yeah. It still makes the whole first season feel just a bit off to me. I mean, if you like it, that's great -- good for you. But a lot of people don't and I can easily see why.

Which is exactly why I don't like to tell people that they have to start with Eccleston and watch the whole series in order. A lot of people are just dissatisfied with season 1 and don't realize what great things are to come.
 
Exactly. Which is why it makes perfect sense to consider when talking about the fact that the series does not know what it's trying to be.

I mean, that's why you have episodes that are a lot darker and more serious, like the Empty Child, vs things like the Slytheen (>>). And that's why you have episodes like Father's Day that show consequences of messing with time that never come up again ever despite seemingly being an episode that's trying to establish things to bring back later, because they're still testing what works and what doesn't.

I really can't blame them, honestly, but... yeah. It still makes the whole first season feel just a bit off to me. I mean, if you like it, that's great -- good for you. But a lot of people don't and I can easily see why.

Which is exactly why I don't like to tell people that they have to start with Eccleston and watch the whole series in order. A lot of people are just dissatisfied with season 1 and don't realize what great things are to come.
The same thing is found with Tennant and by some extent Matt Smith and Capaldi though.
It's not just one long story line. The majority of the show is adventures that only last an episode (rarely it will last for 2).
 
The same thing is found with Tennant and by some extent Matt Smith and Capaldi though.
It's not just one long story line. The majority of the show is adventures that only last an episode (rarely it will last for 2).

I understand that.

But there's a difference between one-off stories and one-off stories that all feel so different in tone that it makes the whole season feel just a bit awkward. I dunno, it's hard for me to place my finger on it.

Father's Day is still kind of a huge offender, though, because not only did it establish "laws of time" that were completely ignored after the fact, but its presence in season 1 makes it seem like it's trying to establish rules and concepts that will stick around or at the very least come back later. But they don't. :/ It's just a weird entry in the series.