Muffins are for Nerds. :3
 
...

WHY IS NO ONE TALKING!?
 
You destroyed conversation
 
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WHY IS NO ONE TALKING!?
BECAUSE I'VE BEEN BUSY.

...And when I haven't been busy, I've been playing Pokemon -- as I am beyond hooked on my 3DS port of Blue. owo Because nothing beats the excitement of actually being able to trade with people and actually having a legit shot at filling the Pokedex because holy shit you guys I've caught 108 Pokemon so far. That's more than two-thirds of the way there. owo
 
Oh how simple the 1st Gen was. :P
Indeed!

And it's actually a really nice change of pace. o.o I've been thinking a lot about this lately -- how Gen I, in its simplicity, has a lot of... problems. Flaws that were removed in later gens for very obvious reasons, especially in regards to how unbalanced a lot of things were and how a lot of Pokemon were absolute powerhouses and others were pretty much useless. Not to mention it takes so long for Pokemon to learn moves that are even half-decent. @_@ And yet, despite the fact that I know these things are considered "flaws" for a reason... there's something oddly refreshing about it. There's this rawness to it that's just sort of interesting, and it really makes it feel earned when you defeat a Pokemon that you know is unfairly overpowered and when you finally get the chance to teach your Pokemon decent moves and make them good fighters.

It made me realize that a lot of things are made easier for you in later games -- for good reason, mind you, but still. It's real easy to just breeze through a more modern Pokemon game -- especially if you're just playing casually -- without having to worry so much about what moves your Pokemon know or how to economize all your items because it's fairly easy to get what you need. It's a trend I'm starting to notice more and more in these long-lived franchises. You can understand why they changed certain things and made them easier and fairer, but... it's very interesting to go back, and a really fun challenge.


And as for catching things?? Ohhhh don't get me started. OwO Because I have filled the dex in Gen VI, but let me tell you it was not the same experience as what's going on here. Because the only reason I'm so proud of my dex-filling in X is because it felt like you weren't expected to fill the dex in that game. There's such an ungodly number of pokemon that I hardly even see Gamefreak seriously use the "gotta catch 'em all" slogan anymore, much less any fans actually trying to live up to it. And I hadn't been trying in most games. The only reason X worked out for me was because I saw some opportunities laid out in front of me and decided to go for the challenge, and I got there, but it was work... The vast majority of it was just online trading, breeding, and evolving. That was it. Which... wasn't so bad for a lot of pokemon, given how many things in the game made it fairly easy to trade, breed, and evolve -- but ugghhhh the event legendaries were a fucking slog... You couldn't just passively trade them on the GTS, which meant you had to actively seek out trade negotiation partners -- and, not only is that system incredibly annoying and makes it difficult to communicate what you want (I even resorted to spelling out what I was trying to say by showing my trade partner my Unowns, but I think most people just thought I was trying to offer Unowns...), but, the thing about event legendaries is that it's very unlikely that anyone will want to offer you one for anything other than another event legendary (and I don't blame them). So basically, I had to spend an absurd amount of time relying on a small handful of 2-3 event legendaries that I had to use to trade for other event legendaries, and if the person on the other end already had all the event legends that I was currently able to offer or just didn't want any of them then oh well I just wasn't getting anywhere. And I just had to sit there, knowing they had exactly what I wanted but there was nothing I could do to make them give it up. It got to the point where, once I had only a few dex slots left, most of the actual thrill of it was gone -- I just wanted to finish it, because the thought of leaving just those few slots unfilled after all the hard work I'd already done would just drive me insane.

BUT THIS... this is different. I actually feel like they're asking for a number of Pokemon that's reasonable and that I can actually go out and catch. It's challenging, but not virtually implausible like it is today. Which makes it much more of a fun sort of challenging. And it's the trading that's really exciting -- going out and finding real-life trade partners. Because, yeah, there are version-exclusive species, enough to actually make seeking out trade partners worthwhile, but it works because that's the central mechanic that the entire concept of Pokemon was built around -- and, you know, it's not like the majority of Pokemon on the dex can't even be caught in the local region or anything. There's a real sort of thrill to combing through the grass of each new area that you enter, looking around for all the new species that you can get, as well as evolving them, and all sorts of other miscellaneous means of obtaining Pokemon that come up throughout the game, as well as poking around to ask if anyone has any of those species that you need to trade for, and filling up your dex bit by bit as you find those people. Because as a kid, I could hardly ever find anyone to trade with -- and even on those rare occasions when I did, the link cable never fucking worked. So like, I was sort of trying to fill the dex, but there were just so many pokemon that I knew I just couldn't catch, which was really discouraging and prevented me from ever seriously trying to fill the dex. But now, between the fact that you have a ton of nerds all playing these games at once due to the recent Virtual Console release, and the fact that you can trade using the much-more-reliable-and-convenient 3DS wireless communications, it's actually possible for me to collect pokemon in the way that the game developers intended. And it feels amazing and it is just so much fun. OwO

Plus, you know, there are considerably fewer pokemon to catch -- which means that, although this is incredibly fun and exciting, I know that it won't take up nearly as huge a chunk of my life as filling the dex on X did. And, you know, I'm confident that it won't be nearly as much of a slog towards the end, especially since there are only a few legendaries to catch, and, you know, I'm capable of catching them all myself. In fact, the most tedious thing to obtain will probably be Porygon, if I can't get anyone to trade for it... but still, even that will feel very much earned, since it would only be one incredibly tedious pokemon to catch, and not, you know, a ton of them. Plus, a lot of this is entirely within my control as opposed to needing to rely so heavily on trades, so... yeah.

ALSO, THEY DIDN'T REMOVE ANY OF THE GLITCHES IN THE GAME, SO YOU CAN STILL CATCH MEW, which is just the perfect little cherry on top.
 
COME TO THINK OF IT, I'm honestly tempted to ask YikYak if there's anyone around who has the pokemon I need.

.....Not exactly the type of hookup that most people on YikYak are looking for, but, hey, it's worth asking...
 
  • Nice Execution!
Reactions: Minerva
Indeed!

And it's actually a really nice change of pace. o.o I've been thinking a lot about this lately -- how Gen I, in its simplicity, has a lot of... problems. Flaws that were removed in later gens for very obvious reasons, especially in regards to how unbalanced a lot of things were and how a lot of Pokemon were absolute powerhouses and others were pretty much useless. Not to mention it takes so long for Pokemon to learn moves that are even half-decent. @_@ And yet, despite the fact that I know these things are considered "flaws" for a reason... there's something oddly refreshing about it. There's this rawness to it that's just sort of interesting, and it really makes it feel earned when you defeat a Pokemon that you know is unfairly overpowered and when you finally get the chance to teach your Pokemon decent moves and make them good fighters.

It made me realize that a lot of things are made easier for you in later games -- for good reason, mind you, but still. It's real easy to just breeze through a more modern Pokemon game -- especially if you're just playing casually -- without having to worry so much about what moves your Pokemon know or how to economize all your items because it's fairly easy to get what you need. It's a trend I'm starting to notice more and more in these long-lived franchises. You can understand why they changed certain things and made them easier and fairer, but... it's very interesting to go back, and a really fun challenge.


And as for catching things?? Ohhhh don't get me started. OwO Because I have filled the dex in Gen VI, but let me tell you it was not the same experience as what's going on here. Because the only reason I'm so proud of my dex-filling in X is because it felt like you weren't expected to fill the dex in that game. There's such an ungodly number of pokemon that I hardly even see Gamefreak seriously use the "gotta catch 'em all" slogan anymore, much less any fans actually trying to live up to it. And I hadn't been trying in most games. The only reason X worked out for me was because I saw some opportunities laid out in front of me and decided to go for the challenge, and I got there, but it was work... The vast majority of it was just online trading, breeding, and evolving. That was it. Which... wasn't so bad for a lot of pokemon, given how many things in the game made it fairly easy to trade, breed, and evolve -- but ugghhhh the event legendaries were a fucking slog... You couldn't just passively trade them on the GTS, which meant you had to actively seek out trade negotiation partners -- and, not only is that system incredibly annoying and makes it difficult to communicate what you want (I even resorted to spelling out what I was trying to say by showing my trade partner my Unowns, but I think most people just thought I was trying to offer Unowns...), but, the thing about event legendaries is that it's very unlikely that anyone will want to offer you one for anything other than another event legendary (and I don't blame them). So basically, I had to spend an absurd amount of time relying on a small handful of 2-3 event legendaries that I had to use to trade for other event legendaries, and if the person on the other end already had all the event legends that I was currently able to offer or just didn't want any of them then oh well I just wasn't getting anywhere. And I just had to sit there, knowing they had exactly what I wanted but there was nothing I could do to make them give it up. It got to the point where, once I had only a few dex slots left, most of the actual thrill of it was gone -- I just wanted to finish it, because the thought of leaving just those few slots unfilled after all the hard work I'd already done would just drive me insane.

BUT THIS... this is different. I actually feel like they're asking for a number of Pokemon that's reasonable and that I can actually go out and catch. It's challenging, but not virtually implausible like it is today. Which makes it much more of a fun sort of challenging. And it's the trading that's really exciting -- going out and finding real-life trade partners. Because, yeah, there are version-exclusive species, enough to actually make seeking out trade partners worthwhile, but it works because that's the central mechanic that the entire concept of Pokemon was built around -- and, you know, it's not like the majority of Pokemon on the dex can't even be caught in the local region or anything. There's a real sort of thrill to combing through the grass of each new area that you enter, looking around for all the new species that you can get, as well as evolving them, and all sorts of other miscellaneous means of obtaining Pokemon that come up throughout the game, as well as poking around to ask if anyone has any of those species that you need to trade for, and filling up your dex bit by bit as you find those people. Because as a kid, I could hardly ever find anyone to trade with -- and even on those rare occasions when I did, the link cable never fucking worked. So like, I was sort of trying to fill the dex, but there were just so many pokemon that I knew I just couldn't catch, which was really discouraging and prevented me from ever seriously trying to fill the dex. But now, between the fact that you have a ton of nerds all playing these games at once due to the recent Virtual Console release, and the fact that you can trade using the much-more-reliable-and-convenient 3DS wireless communications, it's actually possible for me to collect pokemon in the way that the game developers intended. And it feels amazing and it is just so much fun. OwO

Plus, you know, there are considerably fewer pokemon to catch -- which means that, although this is incredibly fun and exciting, I know that it won't take up nearly as huge a chunk of my life as filling the dex on X did. And, you know, I'm confident that it won't be nearly as much of a slog towards the end, especially since there are only a few legendaries to catch, and, you know, I'm capable of catching them all myself. In fact, the most tedious thing to obtain will probably be Porygon, if I can't get anyone to trade for it... but still, even that will feel very much earned, since it would only be one incredibly tedious pokemon to catch, and not, you know, a ton of them. Plus, a lot of this is entirely within my control as opposed to needing to rely so heavily on trades, so... yeah.

ALSO, THEY DIDN'T REMOVE ANY OF THE GLITCHES IN THE GAME, SO YOU CAN STILL CATCH MEW, which is just the perfect little cherry on top.
*Made a small comment*
*Got wall of text*

tumblr_m7sibwgPe71qg39ewo1_500.gif


But yea, I can definitely get the convenience of collecting now opposed to in the past without wi-fi.
Though I'm less a collector and more a battler.

So I'd just be annoyed by the 1x TM per game issue.
 
SORRY, I THINK ABOUT THINGS AND THEN DON'T OFTEN GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THOSE THOUGHTS.

Anyway, I actually kind of like the lack of wi-fi trading. Having wi-fi trades made a lot of things too... easy. Like, any non-legendary Pokemon wasn't really hard to get on the GTS. There wasn't much challenge to it. They were all kind of... there, and there wasn't much soul to it.

Actively searching out real trade partners is a lot more exhilarating. OwO

So I'd just be annoyed by the 1x TM per game issue.
Lolol, one-time TM use isn't just a Gen I thing, though.

But yeah, Gen I wasn't great for competitive battling -- not just because of the TM thing but just because good moves were so hard to come by. @_@ I mean, you could still buy TM's, so it's not like you were only ever limited to one of every TM per game, but... yeah. Honestly, though, I kind of like the added challenge of it. Like I said, it's really interesting, not having such easy access to so many moves. :P

BUT HEY, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT COLLECTING OR ANYTHING, Gen I's still just fun to play through. The "rawness" I mentioned isn't so great for serious, competitive battles, but it's an interesting change of pace for just playing casually.
 
Lolol, one-time TM use isn't just a Gen I thing, though.

But yeah, Gen I wasn't great for competitive battling -- not just because of the TM thing but just because good moves were so hard to come by. @_@ I mean, you could still buy TM's, so it's not like you were only ever limited to one of every TM per game, but... yeah. Honestly, though, I kind of like the added challenge of it. Like I said, it's really interesting, not having such easy access to so many moves. :P

BUT HEY, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT COLLECTING OR ANYTHING, Gen I's still just fun to play through. The "rawness" I mentioned isn't so great for serious, competitive battles, but it's an interesting change of pace for just playing casually.
It was around then though.

I'm not even a competitive battler, I find those who just EV/IV focus end up ruining the fun for most players because they just ROFL stomp them.
And you couldn't ever buy the best TM's, like Flamethrower and Ice Beam.
 
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It was around then though.

I'm not even a competitive battler, I find those who just EV/IV focus end up ruining the fun for most players because they just ROFL stomp them.
And you couldn't never buy the best TM's, like Flamethrower and Ice Beam.
Well then lol if you're not the EV/IV type and you just play through it relatively casually then I think you can still handle the challenge of the more "raw" system. :P
 
Well then lol if you're not the EV/IV type and you just play through it relatively casually then I think you can still handle the challenge of the more "raw" system. :P
The Challenge was never an issue.

But the limitation of stuff like TM's is still infuriating.

What if I want two of my guys to know Flamethrower?
 
The Challenge was never an issue.

But the limitation of stuff like TM's is still infuriating.

What if I want two of my guys to know Flamethrower?
You use Bulbapedia to figure out which ones might learn certain moves through leveling, and strategically use the TM on the one that won't naturally learn it.

Or you could just give up on the dream that such a powerful move (noting that powerful moves are rare in this game) will ever be so accessible. XD Cuz, you know, you're right -- it's not easy to ensure that you can teach the same good move to two pokemon.

That's what makes it raw and challenging. And it really makes you think about which pokemon you want to use your TM's on -- not just in regards to which pokemon would get better use out of it, but also thinking in the long-term of what you want your team to look like sometime down the road, and which pokemon it would be most useful to use the TM on.

Because, like, I totally get what you're saying, but... having spent a good chunk of time recently really thinking about how to make the best use of all these Gen I limitations, I for one have found it very fun and challenging and I like needing to think in order to make the best of it.

It goes back to what I was saying about these older games not just handing things to you as easily as later ones do. :P Like, I understand why they made it easier, sure, but... yeah. Like, I hate to call you "spoiled" for expecting these things from Gen I, but... a move like Flamethrower (or any other moves that are super scarce for a reason) just wasn't as much of an essential back then as it is now. Being able to re-use a TM like that on any Pokemon that you want would just make it too easy.

In fact, now that I really think about it... yeah, the later gens that allow you to re-use TM's also have a lot of other things going on it the game that make things more balanced and interesting. But, in Gen I? Making TM's that versatile, especially for strong moves, would just be too easy. :P Like... dig is a total powerhouse of a move in Gen I! And teaching it to one pokemon when you get the TM for it is one thing, but if I could teach it to all the pokemon that were compatible with it? Yeah... I'd be able to steamroll through portions of the game just a bit too well. XD
 
You use Bulbapedia to figure out which ones might learn certain moves through leveling, and strategically use the TM on the one that won't naturally learn it.
A game shouldn't require meta though to not waste such a 'rare' item. :/
It's just bad game design.
Like, I hate to call you "spoiled" for expecting these things from Gen I, but... a move like Flamethrower (or any other moves that are super scarce for a reason) just wasn't as much of an essential back then as it is now. Being able to re-use a TM like that on any Pokemon that you want would just make it too easy.
I'm not saying it 'should' be in Gen 1. Just that it's less enjoyable as a result.
In fact, now that I really think about it... yeah, the later gens that allow you to re-use TM's also have a lot of other things going on it the game that make things more balanced and interesting. But, in Gen I? Making TM's that versatile, especially for strong moves, would just be too easy. :P Like... dig is a total powerhouse of a move in Gen I! And teaching it to one pokemon when you get the TM for it is one thing, but if I could teach it to all the pokemon that were compatible with it? Yeah... I'd be able to steamroll through portions of the game just a bit too well. XD
I can get that... But one time use TMs, regardless of the move is still a bitch. >.<
 
A game shouldn't require meta though to not waste such a 'rare' item. :/
It's just bad game design.
It's rewarding you for being knowledgeable about the game. Yes, in the age of the internet, that means that just about anyone can look this stuff up -- but back then, when someone knew enough pokemon trivia to know that Vulpix learns flamethrower naturally and that they don't need to waste a TM on it? They would be rewarded for it.

At any rate -- the point remains that it's 'rare' because it's a strong move, and any Pokemon that you use it on will have a powerful move that isn't very easy to get your hands on. Being able to use it over and over would devalue that move, just making the game broken and way too easy to plow through.

In current games, it makes sense to be able to use TM's over and over, because the entire game in general makes it a lot easier to get good moves, not just through the abundance of TM's but also just because pokemon have more generous learnsets in general. There are more moves to begin with, and pokemon learn good moves at a faster rate. You're pretty much constantly learning new, good moves. So it makes sense that you'd be able to use TM's repetitively because, if you couldn't, then, yes, it would seem like a ridiculous limitation. But since stronger moves are much harder to come by in Gen I, it makes sense that the ability to teach a pokemon a specific move that it perhaps can't normally learn would be something that you can't just use infinitely. Reusable TM's would make it way too easy to breeze through the game, especially since the simplicity of it means there aren't a bunch of other complexities to make the game more challenging. You just... get strong moves. Without a lot of things stopping you. ...Too easy.

And I for one would argue that making it too easy to get strong moves that you can use to steamroll through the game would be "bad game design". Reusable TM's works in later gens where the game is a lot more generous about giving you good moves in general, but not so much back then when these moves were supposed to be rare.

I'm not saying it 'should' be in Gen 1. Just that it's less enjoyable as a result.
Well, I for one think it makes it more challenging -- in a way that would be very annoying in a current game, mind you, but a way that's weirdly refreshing in Gen I.

But we're just getting down to opinion at this point, so...



REGARDLESS, the nice thing about Gen I is that you can look at every little thing about it that you find annoying and know that all those things were changed for a reason. I definitely agree that one-time-use TM's shouldn't be a thing today. And that's why they aren't.

The game has evolved, and lots of things have been tweaked and buffed and nerfed or whatever was necessary in order to make the game as balanced and polished as possible. And being balanced and polished is a good thing! I was only arguing that a raw, non-polished game makes for an interesting and more challenging playing experience. It's not something I'd want them to bring back -- especially given how much things have changed nowadays -- but it's interesting to go back to.

Also, while I can't say that Gen I isn't flawed... I do like to give things a bit more context, as a lot of the things in Gen I that would definitely be bad if they were in a current game, weren't as bad back then... if only because the games overall were so very different, and things that don't make any sense now would've made at least some sense back then -- back when the game was a lot more simple, and contained far fewer good moves/species.

NOT TO MENTION, ONE-TIME-USE TM'S ISN'T JUST A GEN I THING?? Like... I know that one-time-use TM's were a thing up through at least Gen III. Maybe even IV. They were around for a long time, and it wasn't something that was immediately seen as "bad game design" that needed to be changed as soon as Gen II came out (unlike quite a few other Gen I quirks that were very quickly changed, and for good reason). Instead, the limitations of one-time-use TM's didn't become incredibly annoying until the games had enough moves, and enough good moves easily handed to you that the one-time-use limitation of TM's did in fact look arbitrary and annoying. Because then, yeah, it made more sense just to make TM's reusable.

Before that, though? I can definitely see why TM's remained one-time-use for so long.
 
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I just don't like the mechanic.
Plz don't make the Mods lock the thread... ;A;
 
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
 
...That sounds rather paranoid.

It was only a discussion. :/
I was joking. :P

I do get your point on the balancing, but it's still something that completely irks me.
Every time I pick up the old games I'm not able to enjoy the rough bits, I'm just annoyed by all the now lacking features.