Who would you vote for the US presidency?

[Decimate]

Yes, but the world is changing faster now than it had before. The older uptight generation isn't going to be around forever, and it's quite clear that the younger generation is much more open and tolerant as well as actually thinking things through rather than being narrow minded and just going with the flow. I think there's hope yet.

I guess I agree with that. Growing up with the Internet at our fingers has been good for that.

 

[Dervish]

Yes, but here's the thing. The Benghazi thing has been worn out to no end. Congress is just as responsible for that as Clinton was, and if I'm not mistaken it was the republicans that refused to fund added security when it was suggested that it was needed. Not to mention that there have been embassy attacks under other SoS's watches as well, and no one went after them. That was a witch hunt because Congress didn't want to own up to their failures.

The email thing......I'm over that too. Bush and Cheney deleted 2 million emails and could have been charged with criminally when Obama took office. They weren't. Obama didn't start an investigation and let them slide. Am I saying Hillary isn't guilty of being dumb? No, I'm not. But you can't blame one side for something the other side is guilty of, and that's exactly what's being done. Bush started an entire war based on mythological WMD, when the entire world knew it was all about oil.

I'm not the type who does the whole loyalty to party thing. I look at what's in the best interest of the people around me. Comparing their policies, without looking at their histories, Hillary has a much more comprehensive and thorough plan. Scrapping Obamacare completely is a horrible idea (Trump's plan). That would leave millions of people without insurance, and possibly bring back the 'preexisting' condition' clause that would effect millions of people. It needs an overhaul, but I think that it's a good idea.

Our government spends more than enough on military. We don't need an increase in military. We still have one of the strongest militaries in the world. Spending money to increase troops seems wasteful.


Tax cuts for the rich isn't going to help anyone out. The middle and lower classes need some slack. The rich can afford a few extra hundred dollars coming out of their paychecks each week. Some lower class families cannot afford to have an extra $5 taken out.

I'm not going to get into the whole SCOTUS debate. There are way too many people who would be happy to go back to the early part of the 20th century when everything was segregated and a woman's place was at home, barefoot and pregnant. (The irony that I'm a stay at home mom writing that does not escape me.)

Policies alone, Trump brings nothing to the table, at least not anything that he will elaborate on. This whole "We'll see" or "It's yet to be determined" is bullshit. If you're going to run for president, you'd better have a plan of action and be able to explain it in detail, not run around in circles babbling like a moron.

Once again, it comes down to what you are willing to overlook verses what another voter is. Whereas those points may be behind you, for another voter they may be the key issues. It doesn't mean either perspective is right or wrong; a concern is a concern.

I doubt it. If 200 years of this kind of shit hasn't done it, I doubt one election will.


Most Americans regardless of political party would be angry if they voted in a bunch of guys who they believe represented them and they did next to nothing in furthering their aims. I wasn't surprised they went for Donald, and thought he'd be the nominee from the get go. His 'Kiss My Ass, I'm going to say whatever the Hell I want and don't care if you don't like it' attitude is big attraction for the subset of Republicans who believe their party worries too much about not being liked enough to retain their seats.

Of course, that's all he had going for them in my opinion.




I was with you until this part of your Devil's Advocate argument. Rural =/= Poverty. Particularly in America where you can stand in some places and not be within 50 miles of another human being. While Donald Trump does maintain a healthy amount of support from the group you describe, it's an exaggeration to call them a majority of his support. He maintains good numbers with the middle classes in the South and Mid-West who are the most economically hurt by Democratic practices levying taxes on their places of business on the premise of 'you're not paying your fair share'.

At one point, I know my family and I were paying upwards of 40-50% of our income to the feds under the Obama administration. My mother worked for the Department of Defense and for 35 years we were under a really good healthcare plan growing up. Once Obamacare was passed, the company she worked for said paying off all the premiums was breaking them and couldn't support it anymore. You had to pay an arm and a leg for it.

This isn't everyone's story, of course, but that's just what I experienced growing up. Even without my family being catholic and veterans for the most part, we tend to fair better under Republicans and Independents than Democrats. I don't like Trump anymore than the next guy (I'm voting for Johnson), but I'd sooner vote for him than Hillary any day of the week.

My apologies, I was hammering that over my phone and didn't consider that particular implication with my post.

I absolutely do not see rural as meaning poverty, I simply wanted to emphasize that a big demographic for Trump supporters are from rural areas that are pretty much economically bottomed out, usually because their communities relied on an industry that is faultering or folded.

I'm well aware that a lot of rural areas are populated by pretty well off people, as well as farmers and so on so forth. My surrounding region, for example, has extremely high land values and pretty much every house outside of town in the surrounding area is probably around 600k to 1 million. A thing to consider with that, however, is it's close to Calgary and a lot of people are pretty wealthy from what they saved working in the oil industry.

Once again, I apologize for giving that inpression. It was totally not what I intended.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Tax cuts for the rich isn't going to help anyone out. The middle and lower classes need some slack. The rich can afford a few extra hundred dollars coming out of their paychecks each week. Some lower class families cannot afford to have an extra $5 taken out.

It helps me out. I'm as far to the right as to ascertain that taxation in any capacity is theft.

 

[Decimate]

It helps me out. I'm as far to the right as to ascertain that taxation in any capacity is theft.

Also why in the hell would you want to heavily penalize being successful in this country? That's kind of the point of why we go to college and school in the first place.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Also why in the hell would you want to heavily penalize being successful in this country? That's kind of the point of why we go to college and school in the first place.

Let me rephrase. I'm better off comparatively than quite a few other Americans. I'm intent on keeping it that way.
Which means guarding my treasure as a dragon would.

 

[Decimate]

Let me rephrase. I'm better off comparatively than quite a few other Americans. I'm intent on keeping it that way.
Which means guarding my treasure as a dragon would.

No, I get you as I'm in the same boat. However, it wasn't always that way. Makes it all the more infuriating.

 

[Dervish]

It helps me out. I'm as far to the right as to ascertain that taxation in any capacity is theft.

I don't know about you, but I kind of like my roads to not have car-eating potholes, fire departments, and all that other good stuff that makes a muncipality run pleasantly.

 

[Legens Legentis]

I don't know about you, but I kind of like my roads to not have car-eating potholes, fire departments, and all that other good stuff that makes a muncipality run pleasantly.

I recognize taxes as a necessary evil, don't get me wrong. Roads and emergency responders are all well and good because they benefit everyone. I would just be a lot happier if the government stopped handing out money to things we don't need. We should spend more money on NASA and less on corporate welfare.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I don't know about you, but I kind of like my roads to not have car-eating potholes, fire departments, and all that other good stuff that makes a muncipality run pleasantly.

Exactly. I also like having cops around when I need them, a military in case shit starts going down hill, teachers and schools.....and that is exactly what the problem is.

So how is it fair that people who are struggling, living paycheck to paycheck because they're not born into families with money and a college education isn't guaranteed for them, are forced to make up what the people who can afford it aren't? Trump is a prime example of exactly how fucked up the system is. He loses a billion dollars, and doesn't have to pay taxes for 18 years. If my husband and I didn't pay taxes, we'd be in jail. We don't get those breaks, and we're the ones who need it most. If it wasn't for people like us, big businesses would be out of money. They wouldn't have products to sell because there would be no demand for it. Why? Because people can't afford it.

It's the lower and middle classes that are out fixing the roads. They're the ones on the lines pushing out products and shipping them off to put money in other people's pockets while getting the bare minimum in the way of wages. It's the lower and middle classes that are working in hospitals and patrolling the streets. Without the lower and middle class, the upper class would be fucked. They seem to forget that. But at the same time, the lower and middle classes in the rich in a sense because they are supposed to be creating jobs with the money that they're saving from the tax breaks they receive. They're supposed to be encouraging growth, not saving it for their little sons and daughters to never work a day in their life.


Waaah.....you have to pay taxes out of a chunk of money that's just sitting around doing what exactly? If you're not using it to improve the economy or the world around you, then exactly why are you complaining?

 

[Dervish]

I recognize taxes as a necessary evil, don't get me wrong. Roads and emergency responders are all well and good because they benefit everyone. I would just be a lot happier if the government stopped handing out money to things we don't need. We should spend more money on NASA and less on corporate welfare.

A totally fair stance to have.

I pay a boatload of taxes up here in Canada, but I think the services I get for it are great... I probably racked up higher medical and surgical bills that taxes covered in the past ten years than what they'd work out to in taxes in the same time period, for instance.

In a perfect world, I'd like if I could pocket every cent I earned, but I honestly don't mind as long as I can live comfortably, which gets harder as I get older and have more expenses.

 

[Roose Hurro]

It helps me out. I'm as far to the right as to ascertain that taxation in any capacity is theft.

Indeed. Taxation is basically legalized extortion:

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: extortion; plural noun: extortions

1. the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
   
   
   
   ... as you can see, the fact the IRS takes our taxes from our paychecks, through force of "law", and by threat of "legal" action, or outright just garnishing our wages for unpaid taxes (not to mention the threat of prison: Tell me, how can I be thrown into prison for not paying someone for something I didn't "buy" of my own free will?)... well, you be the judge.
   
   
   Yes, we have the 16th Amendement. But:
   
   National Taxpayers Union - Is the Income Tax Truly Voluntary?
   
   
   As it says in the above article: "We certainly believe that the income tax is repugnant to the constitutional principles of taxation envisioned by our Founding Fathers." I agree with this assessment.​

 

[Greenie]

@Roose Hurro I'm slightly confused as to why I was tagged in your other post.

 

[Krieg]

Before I begin, I just want to say that I've technically already voted via take-away ballot. I am not discussing my choice in the interests of civic privacy. What I am discussing below is my frustration with this election and politics in general.

This election, being the first I can actively participate is, raises many trends that is both alarmingly and concerning for our political system. There is an unhealthy and complete justified mistrust of the media, mistrust of government, and the values of a republic being threaten from within. As someone who appreciates history greatly, I found this video below to be rather nice and an enjoyable watch. It is from a simple political speaker I follow on Youtube and agree on some matters. Of course, it is not a 100% perfect analogy, as we luckily have not and will most likely not descend into a civil war, but the tensions in the political atmosphere are higher than ever in recent memory.

As for the candidates, what is said has been said by my previous peers on here, I do not feel like repeating what they have already elaborated thoroughly. What I will say is that if Trump is elected or not does not matter, but we are in due for an anti-establishment president in the near future. This alarms me, as the Republican platform in America is fucking awful in terms of civic rights and liberties, only a few margins above the fundamentalist theocratic Middle East, who openly butchers homosexuals and reduces the value of women as nothing more than commodities (and anyone that disagrees with that statement, may I point to the situation in Germany and France).

However, it is bound to happen, either now or later. The Democratic Party in our government is known to be corrupt, it is just that simple. It isn't conspiracy bullshit anymore, it isn't a bunch of nutjobs sitting in corners talking about lizardfolk, it is the reality of the situation. Sure, Trump is evil, a fucking disgraceful, degenerative, scum of a human being. There is no debating that. There is no debating also that Hillary Clinton is the near embodiment of everything wrong with the political system, from deleting thousands of emails when personally requested by the Chief of the FBI to investigate to Benghazi to the use of political agitators to illicit violent responses at Trump & Pence rallies to gain negative media attention.

And before any of you cynics say "well all politicians are corrupt", I find that logic to be flawed. If a murderer goes up to a court of law and says "well, four-hundred years ago, there was a murderer here! And, actually, anyone of my trade is also a murderer!" does that make him innocent? Does that general relativist thinking somehow push the reality of the situation away and make it all better?

No. It does not.

I would like to leave on this note, as I'm not really discussing into the grit of all of this (everyone else has). I will be happy once this election ends, so the Western world can stop talking about this bullshit and worry about actual, real problems in the world. I don't care if Trump had some fratboy talk in a bus about groping women, but what I do care about is the economic and military status of ISIS. What I do care about is how eastern France and Germany are becoming akin to Dublin in the Troubles with self-segregated, hostile Islamic communities that are in open rebellion to the very democratic governments they are under. What I do care about is the aggression of the Russian government against Ukraine and parts of the Middle East. I'm sorry if this comes offense, but it is simple reality. I am tired and sick of people at each other's throats, even people aren't even in America, whining and groaning about petite bullshit but when news of corruption or world affairs goes on, we simply brush that aside as if that news is deemed irrelevant. I am tired of people preaching about the freedom of speech, but if someone is said that they don't agree with, they chastised the other as some ignorant whelp.

People like democracy until it doesn't go in their favor.

 

[Roose Hurro]

@Roose Hurro I'm slightly confused as to why I was tagged in your other post.

Because of your "WTF Did I Just Read" rating of this post:

Who would you vote for the US presidency?

 

[Greenie]

Because of your "WTF Did I Just Read" rating of this post:

Who would you vote for the US presidency?

Oh my goodness, this is terribly embarrassing. o///o My apologies, I must have accidentally pressed that whilst on my mobile. I'll go remove it immediately.

 

[Roose Hurro]

Oh my goodness, this is terribly embarrassing. o///o My apologies, I must have accidentally pressed that whilst on my mobile. I'll go remove it immediately.

Heh... I wonder how many times this has happened with others. As for your apologies, accepted. One of the reasons I put that link first, and bolded it, was specifically for the passage I quoted.

 

[Greenie]

Heh... I wonder how many times this has happened with others.

More than enough times with me v.v I always remove the negative ratings immediately, but today I simply didn't notice since I was at work.

Anyway, I'll stop digressing.

 

[Roose Hurro]

More than enough times with me v.v I always remove the negative ratings immediately, but today I simply didn't notice since I was at work.

Anyway, I'll stop digressing.

By all means... still would like to hear opinions, though.

 

[lostfaith]

The only two ways you'll hammer it out is by adopting a diet, makeup, and workout routine that gives the appropriate feminine appearance, then practice working on your overall gait.

Oh, what I meant is that people identify me as female because of the way that I walk, not the other way around. I never even realized I walked a particular way, but I've started paying attention to it since several people have told me about it. My only guess is that it has to do with the way I'm on my feet; I put my weight on the front, whereas most people put it on their heel. Maybe that adds some nuance to how I walk, or I just subconsciously walk in a traditionally female way. I'm not really sure, but I won't complain about anything that helps me present.

┐('～`，)┌

 

[Brovo]

Oh, what I meant is that people identify me as female because of the way that I walk, not the other way around. I never even realized I walked a particular way, but I've started paying attention to it since several people have told me about it. My only guess is that it has to do with the way I'm on my feet; I put my weight on the front, whereas most people put it on their heel. Maybe that adds some nuance to how I walk, or I just subconsciously walk in a traditionally female way. I'm not really sure, but I won't complain about anything that helps me present.

┐('～`，)┌

Ohh, I did misunderstand, haha.

Best of luck nonetheless. Hope you succeed in your endeavours. Whatever may come of this election, you have my unconditional support to be whatever you want to be. Cuz' that's what allies do I suppose.

I would like to leave on this note, as I'm not really discussing into the grit of all of this (everyone else has). I will be happy once this election ends, so the Western world can stop talking about this bullshit and worry about actual, real problems in the world.

Haha, sadly, no. You're going to get four years of the losing team bitching about every single tiny minute detail of the winning team. That's what happened with Bush in office, and it's what happened with Obama in office.

America is an absurdly political land. Which might not be so bad if its politics weren't so bafflingly absurd.

On the bright side, uh...

... Um...

You can, uh...

Look I'm fairly sure this is why God greenlit booze being a thing in our world. You're in for a hard four years. Best of luck.