Who would you vote for the US presidency?

[Hellis]

Ohh, I did misunderstand, haha.

Best of luck nonetheless. Hope you succeed in your endeavours. Whatever may come of this election, you have my unconditional support to be whatever you want to be. Cuz' that's what allies do I suppose.

Haha, sadly, no. You're going to get four years of the losing team bitching about every single tiny minute detail of the winning team. That's what happened with Bush in office, and it's what happened with Obama in office.

America is an absurdly political land. Which might not be so bad if its politics weren't so bafflingly absurd.

On the bright side, uh...

... Um...

You can, uh...

Look I'm fairly sure this is why God greenlit booze being a thing in our world. You're in for a hard four years. Best of luck.

McCain has allready said they are gonna gridlock the Dems if they win. So yeah. Business as usual.

 

[Roose Hurro]

All you have to remember is: Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus... and Politicians are from Uranus.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

McCain has allready said they are gonna gridlock the Dems if they win. So yeah. Business as usual.

Most of the Republicans in congress have already failed to do their jobs. Look at the 9/11 bill. They were so happy to rub it in Obama's face that they overturned his veto that they threw military and civilians overseas under the bus without protection from lawsuits, and then had the nerve to say "Well, Obama never warned us about this." He'd been warning them for months! The fact that he vetoed the damn thing should have been a freaking wake up call.

 

[Melon]

Just gonna leave this here

I dont know how big this is

 

[Krieg]

Haha, sadly, no. You're going to get four years of the losing team bitching about every single tiny minute detail of the winning team. That's what happened with Bush in office, and it's what happened with Obama in office.

America is an absurdly political land. Which might not be so bad if its politics weren't so bafflingly absurd.

On the bright side, uh...

... Um...

You can, uh...

Look I'm fairly sure this is why God greenlit booze being a thing in our world. You're in for a hard four years. Best of luck.

But it shouldn't be like this! Why is it in Western democratic systems of any kind the losing side has to whine and insist on their endeavors? Sure, they have the full legal right to do that, I understand freedom of expression fully. But, there a fine difference between expression of dissatisfaction with government and insistent whining of "o but muh vieeews". Do they not understand that it hampers the progress of the government and their people more and more?

(Let me be clear, I am not talking about civil pursuits, such as gay rights. Obviously they should continue their endeavors due to their injustices. However, I am talking about purely political or government pursuits.)

It is the same situation happening with Brexit, the Remainers now nicknamed the "Remoaners" because they still are in this disillusionment of someone getting back into the EU. The vote has been called, the ballot has been made, there is not a "second chance" in democracy. The moment any side tries to suggest "second chances" in votes (unless there is an absurd amount of corruption in the electing process, which is debatable) is the moment a democracy stops being a democracy.

tl;dr whatever happens don't bitch and moan do something productive and stop trying to change democracy to fit your ideals and safety-zones.

 

[Roose Hurro]

The ideal of democracy is FREEDOM. Freedom is risk... it's not about "safety-zones".

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

The ideal of democracy is FREEDOM. Freedom is risk... it's not about "safety-zones".

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

 

[Dervish]

But it shouldn't be like this! Why is it in Western democratic systems of any kind the losing side has to whine and insist on their endeavors? Sure, they have the full legal right to do that, I understand freedom of expression fully. But, there a fine difference between expression of dissatisfaction with government and insistent whining of "o but muh vieeews". Do they not understand that it hampers the progress of the government and their people more and more?

(Let me be clear, I am not talking about civil pursuits, such as gay rights. Obviously they should continue their endeavors due to their injustices. However, I am talking about purely political or government pursuits.)

It is the same situation happening with Brexit, the Remainers now nicknamed the "Remoaners" because they still are in this disillusionment of someone getting back into the EU. The vote has been called, the ballot has been made, there is not a "second chance" in democracy. The moment any side tries to suggest "second chances" in votes (unless there is an absurd amount of corruption in the electing process, which is debatable) is the moment a democracy stops being a democracy.

tl;dr whatever happens don't bitch and moan do something productive and stop trying to change democracy to fit your ideals and safety-zones.

Democracy shouldn't be a two party system, or let Gerrymandering exist, or involve super delegates or take over 500 days for an election cycle, so really, people complaining about the winning party has a lot to do with the fact they have no representation for their values for the term the other party won.

Basically, a representional voting system that lets you number candidates based on preference and fills out the seats with whoever won their ridings, regardless of party affiliation, is a very real solution to a very real problem. It's hard to feel like it's winner takes all when there's representatives from the party you voted for in the newly formed government.

Also, I think the US and Canada should take a page out of Japan's books and outlaw attack ads. Parties should earn their votes based on what they have to offer rather than how well they throw dirt.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Also, I think the US and Canada should take a page out of Japan's books and outlaw attack ads. Parties should earn their votes based on what they have to offer rather than how well they throw dirt.

They should ban those obnoxious pop up ads too, while they're at it. Tried to watch the teaser for GotG 2 and had a huge Trump ad ruin it before I could even hit play. :( (That's just a random rant. I know it's not possible, but damn it! I was so happy to see baby Groot and my mood soured seeing Trump's melted play-doh face.)

In all seriousness though, the attack ads this election period have been vicious, and it's not just the presidential election. I have yet to learn anything about the people running for senator in my state other than one supported Obamacare (Which really, I don't see a huge deal about. The intentions were good, it just wasn't worked out completely before it was pushed through.) and one supports Trump. Considering that the steel industry is big in this state, supporting Trump is something that people should know about.

On a side note, I'm starting to wonder if my husband and I should take a trip to Lancaster to visit those poor Amish that Trump visited. I seriously feel like those poor people were taken advantage of.

 

[Dervish]

They should ban those obnoxious pop up ads too, while they're at it. Tried to watch the teaser for GotG 2 and had a huge Trump ad ruin it before I could even hit play. :( (That's just a random rant. I know it's not possible, but damn it! I was so happy to see baby Groot and my mood soured seeing Trump's melted play-doh face.)

In all seriousness though, the attack ads this election period have been vicious, and it's not just the presidential election. I have yet to learn anything about the people running for senator in my state other than one supported Obamacare (Which really, I don't see a huge deal about. The intentions were good, it just wasn't worked out completely before it was pushed through.) and one supports Trump. Considering that the steel industry is big in this state, supporting Trump is something that people should know about.

On a side note, I'm starting to wonder if my husband and I should take a trip to Lancaster to visit those poor Amish that Trump visited. I seriously feel like those poor people were taken advantage of.

Doesn't pop up blockers work? The internet has been so much nicer since I downloaded at. I just disable it on sites I care about and don't force me to deal with pop up windows or 5 ads for a twenty minute video.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Doesn't pop up blockers work? The internet has been so much nicer since I downloaded at. I just disable it on sites I care about and don't force me to deal with pop up windows or 5 ads for a twenty minute video.

Sadly, pop-up blockers don't work with the ads. Works on everything else, but not those. It sucks too, because one of the sites I watch trailers on always has them. Believe me, I've been filtering out Trump as much as possible lately. I can no longer answer the phone because I keep getting asked to donate to him. I'd demand my husband change his party for the rest of the election, but I don't think that will stop him. For someone who's self funding, he certainly asks for money a lot.

 

[Hellis]

Freedom involves a whole lot of things. One of the rights is the right to be yourself without being pursued, harassed or persecuted for your race, gender or sexual preferences. Becouse you are not a free man or women if your very being is being attacked for not sticking to conformity. That little dilemma is something every single "Anti-PC, Anti-Safezone" person I have come across seem incapable of connecting to reality. Y'all "No Safe zones" get very testy when this is brought up I might add. Screaming at me and others over "Are you Triggered" and to get thicker skin and such. Which is hilarious as you (Those that scream this as soon as they get the chance) seem to have thinnest skin of anyone I ever met.

Safe spaces does not infringe on your freedom, it is assuring other have the sanctuary from harassment. Freedom from a system that has not yet caught up to that basic right yet. It doesn't infringe on your rights in any way. It does not seek to silence you. It seeks to elevate the pressure of bigotry being heaped upon you. It doesn't lead to thinner skin, but it leads to a safer mental environment. An environment conductive for conversation free of bigotry. A respite from the fucking world that bears down on you like massive 100 ton rock. Not everyone comes from places of support, from a supporting family or circle of understanding friends. Some suffer from anxiety. Some have been abused. Some have been called every racist word in the book. You would rob those people of a place for respite and safety. That is not freedom. That fucking tyranny disguised freedom of speech.

Somewhere down the line, Alt-Rights screaming became the "unadulterated truth" for a whole lot of people who had no real idea what safe-spaces actually mean. It was just another "Vile leftist academia" symptom to erase. Because apparently, basic empathy towards those in a less privileged position is to hard to grasp for some.


So you know. There is that.

Edit: I mean fuck. I suffer from Social Phobia, Despression and Anxiety attacks. A lot stemming from being jumped back in my teens. And from being bullied. A safe space likely would have helped me tons. A place where I could be me, where I could breathe. Fuck anyone who wanna rob others of that chance. You can all come see me face to face and I can tell you in person of the injustice and privilege your stance represent. I have transgendered friends who have no family to return to, who were dissowned by their own religous parents. Who crashed on my couch.

IDEALLY, a safespace should not be needed. But they are. Very much so.

 

[Roose Hurro]

Hold on, Hellis...

There is no such thing as "freedom from"... only "freedom to". As soon as you say "Freedom can't do this"... well, it's no longer freedom, is it? That is what's meant by risk. To be free, you have to be willing to risk that someone may find something about you they don't like. And that they may harass you for it. Like those in grade school who called me "Four-eyes!" and "Poindexter!" just because I wore glasses. And did my homework. And got good grades. If you tell someone they can't do that, then you are saying they don't have the right, the FREEDOM, to express themselves. Which makes you as much an "intolerant" as they are. Because freedom also means you can point out their faults, thumb your nose at them, and make them cry.

But you can't stop them from harassing you. Shouldn't stop them from harassing you. Because, well, as you've stated, you should be free to express "your very being". Which means even the nasty people have that right and freedom. Just as you have the right and freedom to turn away and laugh.

And of course it seeks to silence you. Because it only takes a single signature to make the entire country a "Safe-Zone". Because bigotry exists everywhere, bigotry in all its forms. Including the bigotry of those who want "Safe-Zones" because they don't like the bigots. It works both ways.

Also remember: If you establish a Safe-Zone for the harassed, that means you have just designated part of a free country as inaccessible to "certain people". And that part is most likely "public"... because if it was private, then you'd already have your "Safe-Zone", wouldn't you?

Which brings up another point: Isn't a person's home their private territory, where one can exclude the people one doesn't like? (Or have those people arrested if they intrude by force?)

 

[Hellis]

1) Not everyone come from a home they can be themselves. Many come from broken homes with abusive relationships. These people often need a place. And what about us with anxiety. Should we just say "Fuck it, society isn't for us" and become mentally crippled shut ins. Or should we perhaps work to make environments about critical thinking and conversation and acceptance. Not about stress, hazing, bullying, and rampant bigotry.

2) Harassing people is generally illegal if you do it enough. Emotionally abusing something is not expressing freedom, it is a form of oppression towards others. Straight up. Its a thing. You should look it up. Now I cannot stop a person from being a bigot, but I can shield others from that person. I can stand up against that person. I can tell him "We do not tolerate your bullshit here". With your logic, nobody would stand up to the bullies. With your logic, KKK would never had been met with any kind of resistance. With your logic, we would let homo and transphobes bully kids into suicide. OH WAIT: THAT LAST ONE HAPPENS ON THE FUCKING DAILY. Sorry man, your logic is to "Lie down and take it". I speak for myself, in that I am never gonna accept that bullshit. I've been bullied. I been beaten down. I have literally been on the phone as my friend found her little brother having his wrists cut. Your words are misguided at best. Down right dangerous at their worse.

3) Using the circular logic that "Its their right to be vile to others", it is something that is curtailed. You cannot hurl obscenities at people forever without getting shut down eventually. You are also doing the giant rethorical leap of "One signature and then everywhere is a safezone" as if safezones where some tool of dictators and the secret thought police. Guess what, that leap in logic is not only patchier then my old jeans. It doesn't hold up. Freedom of Speech as you know, in the American constitution. That isn't a single signature away from being cancelled out. Get real.

 

[Pahn]

Hi guys, just asking to keep this on-topic from the opening post ^_^ You can take this discussion to PMs if you like!

 

[HerziQuerzi]

How am I the only vote for Deez Nutz? Are you all masochists or something? In an election between evils, choose chaotic neutral.

 

[Hellis]

Hi guys, just asking to keep this on-topic from the opening post ^_^ You can take this discussion to PMs if you like!

Entirely my bad. I had a different point in mind but I kinda lost ^^'

 

[Pahn]

Entirely my bad. I had a different point in mind but I kinda lost ^^'

It's fine, it happens, especially in heated discussions :3 I'm too lazy to find the meme for "now kiss" but you guys get the point :D

Thanks! ~

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I'm changing my vote! I'm totally writing in this guy:

 

[Brovo]

Hi guys, just asking to keep this on-topic from the opening post ^_^ You can take this discussion to PMs if you like!

You're a darlin' with more hope in humanity than I. Thanks.