Who would you vote for the US presidency?

[SacredWarrior]

Good thing they outlawed dueling in this country.

 

[Decimate]

Trump vs Hillary Yugioh Card match = Win.

 

[Brovo]

I've carved this out for one simple reason: Been there, done that. LGBT people keep insisting they were "born that way". Well, even though I am neither L nor G nor B nor T, I was "born a certain way", and have had to live with it my entire life. Remedial PE... no sports... Air Force didn't want me... can't do "heavy lifting" jobs (like construction). I'm presently a fifty-four year old part time cashier. No government assistance. And yet, I have a roof over my head, all my own. I own a car. I've gotten rid of most of my old "hand-me-down" furniture, and bought "new" stuff. I can go out to movies. Buy books and magazines. Treat my best friend and his wife to dinner... hell, I helped keep a roof over their heads! Even helped them get a car of their own (2015 Chevy Sonic LTZ Turbo). I do not consider myself a second class citizen nor do I consider myself in destitute poverty just because a "condition" I was born with has limited my choices in life. I simply go out and grab what I can out of life. Apparently with God's blessing, to be frank. I have no "community". I have myself, my church, and my God. Well, perhaps that could be considered my "community".

I'm just trying to give Valentyne a way to deal with it... grab Life's "bull" by the balls, and squeeze till it moos for mercy. To be honest, none of us are able to utilize 100% of what Life offers. Accept your limitations, roll with them, and smile.

Edit: What's Next for Religious Business Owners

Well. Gonna break it down.

#1: The fact that you have accomplished as much as you have in spite of your issues impresses me, and that can-do attitude is quite healthy. Just, figured I'd mention that now.

#2: Yeah. I get'cha--tryin' to help Valentyne keep a positive mind, keep moving forward no matter what happens, and make something of her life. If the government gets in the way, walk around it. It's a good attitude to have, but, that's why I qualified my opening argument with "it's pedantic for politics." She's a teenager, she's still dependent on her family to survive. When she moves out on her own and has her own job and what not, she can (and should) express herself with absolute freedom--that's the American Dream. That's one of the reasons I do love your country.

Buuuuut, being a teenager, living in the Bible Belt? It may actually be wise for her to hold back on think on it for a while. Think about her identity, think about how to present it, and how to live within and around the existing society she lives in. And, where it concerns politics, it's absolutely legitimate to consider your own identity when your potential political leaders are debating whether or not it has merit, values, or deserves any sort of rights and freedoms.

More of a... Complicated grey, if that makes any sense. You give good advice, you should live freely and openly and work around whatever obstacles are in your life to accomplish things... As an adult. As a teenager? It may be wise to think upon your future first, and wait until you make your own income, so that you aren't dependent on anyone else, and so you aren't potentially trapped in high school as a pariah. Y'know?

#3: In terms of the "religious business owners" thing, my stance is surprisingly conservative. I think churches should be allowed to decide whether or not they marry gay couples. (Seeing as how the government can perform legal marriages and there are several pro-gay marriage churches at this point that'll do it.) Businesses get a little more complicated. I'm of the opinion that small ma and pa stores should not be forced to do this, but a company that bypasses a certain financial threshold should. If a ma and pa store kicks you out because of religious intolerance, that's a loss on them. If you're prevented from accessing entire store chains like Home Depot or Walmart, that can actually cause serious financial harm.

It's one of those complicated things that I think requires a level headed nuance. Because religious rights are important and I don't think members of the LGBT community would want to eat in a restaurant staffed by people who hate them anyway. On the other hand, in small towns, it can mean that members of the LGBT community can be effectively banished via businesses coming together to collectively shove them out--like what used to happen with blacks.

One of those things I think I need to think on more. I don't understand it well enough to come to a thoughtful conclusion--more just, pondering.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to say much more articulately - and kindly - than I ever could.

Brovo's really good at that...

I do what I can. Walking the middle line is hard. Assuming that everyone--whether I agree with them or not--is just trying to do the right thing, even if I don't understand it? Harder still. Thank you.

Luckily those corporations are nowhere as big as they once were. I do support their private property rights and think private owners should be allowed to discriminate as they see fit.

Agreed, usually. So long as there is sufficient open competition that the free market can be allowed to adjust. Basically attempting to avoid the scenario of small Christian towns banishing LGBT folks via refusal of service is the only thing I'm concerned about. Big cities? Should be no concern. Most multimillion dollar companies? Again, no concern--profit motive is ironically quite effective at producing equality.

Did you think that I would have forgotten Dahnald? Since the dawn of time I have watched in anguished as you made your feeble country great again. But no more Dahnald! While you were busy enjoying your presidency I've amassed an eternal army of skeleton delegate; The Skelegates. Without you to protect the world from the forces of the Canadian Chaos Gods I will finally escape from my time loop prison. You've made your fateful mistake and I can finally travel back to that fateful night in 2016 and claim my birthright which you stole from me. With my army of Skelegates at my command I will finally win the Republican nomination and move forward towards a principle conservative campaign for President. My will shall never be denied again. Goodbye Dahnald, your New York ways will taint the party no longer. THE PRIESTHOOD IS RISING! I will plunge this country into ten thousand years of darkness. And the Delegates will support me in every step I take.

Thank you Dahnald​

Oh you bloody cad. Never stop being the drunken piss-smelling troll that you are.

 

[lostfaith]

I was going to write some lengthy post in response to you, @Roose Hurro, but @Brovo beat me to it and said it much more eloquently than I could have. Thanks, Brovo.

I will elaborate a little more on what I meant, though.
My main social environments are school and church. I have the blessing of attending an extraordinarily queer school, given its location. Maybe about 60% of the students fall under the LGBT+ umbrella. I'm far from even the only openly trans person there--I personally know four others, and know of two more besides them. Even with most of my teachers I'm unafraid to be open there; even if faculty did object, the portion of the school body that would protest is large, and I pretty much know which of the staff are okay with it and which aren't.

But church is different. I don't attend regularly since leaving my parents' church, but I've started going to youth groups with a friend of mine, and, from what she says and what I've gauged from being there, the other kids would fall under the "doesn't necessarily approve, but understands and accepts" stance (like my friend), but I have no guarantees that the church leaders wouldn't splash holy water on me if they knew. I can't say that I'm not bitter about having to hide my identity from other people of my own religion.

In public, it's no question; I can't be out. Most people gender me as female on sight because of my appearance and mannerisms (people have told before that even the way I walk gives me away), and I take pains to remove anything people would use to gender me as male (shaving, wearing a scarf to cover my adam's apple, etc) but I can't help my voice so as soon as I start talking, people dismiss their ironically correct first impression, and down here in the south I can't correct them.

It's like living with two identities, but one of them is a decaying corpse you desperately want to be rid of it and can't be no matter how hard you try. So you should understand that I want nothing less than a government that will work to help me live without fear; or at the very least, one that won't directly get in the way of my life.

Bernie Sanders is my preferred candidate, but Clinton is my only hope against Trump since he lost the candidacy.

Maybe God will have pity on us and Giant Meteor will win in the end.

 

[Shiri]

Chris Wallace taking his gloves off every once in a while for order in this debate. I like it. We're almost staying on topic. Almost. xD

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I'm sneaking to watch it. It's a freaking nightmare. At least there has been some issue talk though. Trump's still a moron.

 

[Alan]

Myself.

Vote Alan 2016. I might not know what I'm doing, but at least I'm not going to lie about it.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

All I'm going to say is.....

I refuse to vote for a man who calls this country stupid!

 

[Dipper]

Next time they make an offer to send a few people on a no-return trip to Mars, I'm taking it. Would anyone else like to join me?

I claim title as President of Mars. First come first serve, I believe the saying goes.

I'll be a better president than either of our candidates. Promise.

 

[Legens Legentis]

All I'm going to say is.....

I refuse to vote for a man who calls this country stupid!

20 trillion in debt certainly doesn't signify intelligence.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

20 trillion in debt certainly doesn't signify intelligence.

Neither does the 20 Trillion more Trump would add if he wins.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Neither does the 20 Trillion more Trump would add if he wins.

True. Either way it's a loss for the American people.

 

[Roose Hurro]

Neither does the 20 Trillion more Trump would add if he wins.

Do you have proof of this? Not conjecture. Not hearsay. Proof.

 

[Shiri]

True. Either way it's a loss for the American people.

Agreed. The debt's gonna increase regardless of who we pick. xD

Found a recent article that helps me grasp onto what's going on with how the candidates are treating the debt and how it could be better dealt with. I thought it might be helpful with where the thread is going. They kind of confused me in the debate. @.@;

 

[Brovo]

(people have told before that even the way I walk gives me away)

I can tell you the science behind that, actually. The overall male bone structure is thicker than that of females, but this is most pronounced and identifiable in the hip and pelvis bones, where the female body had to evolve the space necessary to allow the release of a developed fetus. This resulted in subtle but noticeable differences in how males and females maintain forward momentum whilst balancing the overall weight dynamic of their skeletal structure and muscular system, which later became amplified via sociological pressures.

We evolved the capacity to try and identify male/female in shadowy figures based on this difference, too. Likely because among our hominid ancestors, males were probably far more violent, leading to a need to identify whether or not the approaching figure was a potential threat to you via assumed gender identity. (That's the leading theory as to why we developed this capacity, anyway.)

^^; Figured the science behind it might be interesting for you. The only two ways you'll hammer it out is by adopting a diet, makeup, and workout routine that gives the appropriate feminine appearance, then practice working on your overall gait. There are some trans folks that have apparently nailed it so well that most people can't discern them for their prior gender identity unless informed. Best of luck.

Do you have proof of this? Not conjecture. Not hearsay. Proof.

Well, closest I've got to proof is numbers on his plan saying anywhere between $11.5 Trillion to $5.3 Trillion. Which is uh... Wow. Even just 5.3 trillion is... A pretty ridiculous number for four years.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Do you have proof of this? Not conjecture. Not hearsay. Proof.

Economists have been predicting that Trump's plan isn't viable in creating a surplus from the beginning. The numbers don't add up, at all. He says that he wants tax cuts across the board, therefore, where is the money going to come from? I'm not even good at math, and even I can see that. He's cutting the taxes for everyone, including the rich who already get plenty of breaks, along with deductions and loopholes that the lower and middle classes do not get. Businesses would pay a 15% tax rate as opposed to the 35%.

So where is the money lost from taxes going to come from? Trade deals that aren't even guaranteed? Our supposed 'fees' for sending aide to allies? Because I'm sure that everyone is going to ask for help when Trump starts holding his hand out. Taking into account all of the things that federal money is needed for and it's just not going to work.



He plans on increasing the military to 540,000. I won't take into account his listings for aircraft because the military already exceeds that number by 200 so I don't know if he's planning on adding an additional 1200 to the 1900 that they are now required to maintain or not. From what I saw, there is currently 1400. That's an additional 200,000 troops than what we have now, and 3,1000 fighter aircraft. I have no idea what the military uses, but going off an article the Pentagon spent 400 billion on 2,100 F-35s back in 2013. That's $190,000,000 per aircraft. Assuming that Trump wants to maintain 3,100 aircraft, that would be $510 billion to build, not including maintenance and upgrades. In 2013, military spending dropped down to 619 billion, so we'll use that number. Add the aircraft and there's already a 1.3 trillion (Rounded up) and that's not taking into account the cost of the additional troops, so that will probably bump it by a few hundred billion.

He gives no policy or plans for infrastructure, so I can't take that into account.

Child care, he plans to match up to $500 for every $500 parents put into a special savings account. There are currently 318 million people in the U.S, and not everyone will use that, so let's just say 100 million people do. The average household has 2 children, so that's $1000 a month, $12,000 a year which would come out to 12 billion a year.

Trump's plan to deport illegal immigrants and build the wall. There's 11 million illegal immigrants. A deportation squad would be required and let's say that they have about 1,000 people (I'd imagine there would be more, but without any actual ns specifics go off of, I'm lowballing it. Mind you, I'm going off Trump's website so......) They would have to spend time tracking each immigrant, then they would have to house them until they could be deported. I'd say that would probably cost another 500 billion, give or take. Add another 20 billion for the walls, so that 520 billion all together, not including what is currently being spent on boarder patrol.

Now mind you, without the illegal immigrants working for low wages, the cost of most things will start to rise since farmers and manufacturers will have to actually pay workers at least minimum wage. (The only real benefit that I see to this) This means that jobs will end up being cut to make up for the difference in wages, and could lead to job loss and closures.

We're already at nearly 2 trillion (More or less. I suck at math) and that's not even taking into account federal relief aide, Social Security, Welfare programs, infrastructure, education, and all the other things that the federal government pays for.



| Tax Policy Center His previous plan

| Tax Policy Center Revised plan

But, here are several stories where economists have broken things down, and they know a hell of a lot more than I do.

Donald Trump revises his economic plan but leaves many questions unanswered

Donald Trump's Economic Plan, Up Close, Doesn't Add Up

Donald Trump's Tax Plan Could Cost the U.S. 11 Million Jobs

Donald Trump's tax plan could land America $10 trillion deeper in debt | Brookings Institution

I don't know how old any of you were during the Bush administration, but I was raising a family during that time, and I remember how fucking miserable it was. I'm sure that probably led to most of my disdain for republicans, but it did prove that trickle down economics does not work. The Bust administration had to give out money to try to stimulate the economy, and even that didn't do much to help. Unemployment by the end of Bush's term was horrific, and there weren't a whole lot of people who were impacted in some way or another.

Trump likes to blame Clinton for NAFTA, but if you look at the details, it was Bush Sr. that orchestrated it, Clinton only signed it as a formality since it had already passed through congress. Before you vote, actually look into the issues. Don't listen to the slandering and accusations, but do some real research, and more importantly, do the math. This country can't take another Bush. Hillary might be a horrible person, but she's been on the scene, and she knows how things work. Trump has no idea what he is doing, and can barely grasp how our government works. Whatever he's promising, it's not going to work out. People smarter than most of us are already doing the math and have been doing it since his first proposal. There has never been a time in this campaign that I've read that Trump's tax plans or economic plans will work. Actually look at his website and read. Look for specifics, because there are not many and there are a lot of holes.

-Edited, because there's a hell of a lot of typos. It's early and I woke up before the alarm clock. =/

 

[Hecatoncheires]

I think I could hear the sound of Trump's campaign team pulling their fucking hair out their heads from across the Atlantic.

He's re-using lines of attack on a former lawyer and career politician (y'know, something that will get you bitten in the ass). He's doubling down on the conspiratorial bullshit instead of trying to appeal to voters outside of his core demographic. He's incapable of remaining on the offensive against Clinton, who's managing to dance around his barbs or throw them back at him (he had the fucking PERFECT opportunity to dig in on the discussion of the Clinton Foundation, but instead let himself get riled). He's demonstrating just how thin-skinned and easily provoked he is with every jab thrown his way completely throwing him off his stride and sending him off into big tirades about things unrelated to the debate subject.

Oh, and then he threw even more ammunition at the media for them to gun him down with when he refused to state whether he would accept the results of the election, once again keeping all the attention on him and allowing Clinton to avoid any awkward headlines about her own shady, leaked shit.

Mr Trump, please pick up your balls. You appear to be dropping them everywhere.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

His face at the end said it all. I think he realized he lost that one all on his own.

 

[Legens Legentis]

I don't know how old any of you were during the Bush administration, but I was raising a family during that time, and I remember how fucking miserable it was. I'm sure that probably led to most of my disdain for republicans, but it did prove that trickle down economics does not work. The Bust administration had to give out money to try to stimulate the economy, and even that didn't do much to help. Unemployment by the end of Bush's term was horrific, and there weren't a whole lot of people who were impacted in some way or another.

'Trickle-down economics' worked in Ohio under Kasich, New Mexico under Johnson, Indiana under Pence, and in numerous other Republican states. Bush's economic plan could never take shape when he was dealing with a Democratic congress.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

'Trickle-down economics' worked in Ohio under Kasich, New Mexico under Johnson, Indiana under Pence, and in numerous other Republican states. Bush's economic plan could never take shape when he was dealing with a Democratic congress.

You mean like how Obama hasn't been able to get anything done with a Republican congress? Bush certainly got his war though. Funny how that worked out.