Fate/Shattered Gospel (OOC)

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I treat barriers in Fate like Nero treats them in Extella; with enough shouting and plot climax, anything is breakable, even Archimedes' "anti-dimension" or whatever the fuck barrier.
 
Naw, we don't. Just curious because the only other EX-rank defensive NP I know of is Avalon, so I'm not sure if that's the same tier you were going for.
Original Enuma Elish A++ Defense, made to block EA.
Akhilleus Kosmos is A+ and works more or less like Avalon.
Herakles, ... Actually has a too to counter EA. He has a bit of them. In fact, in stange fake, he used nine lives, plus Hyppolyta's sash of the war god, so Gilgamesh was forced to use EA to survive. Not win. But to live another day.
Whcih was owned Hippolyta, which by extension Penthesilea.
Then We Have Alceides' ... Reincarnation Pandora.
Even Benkei's "Eight implement" screams Let's steal Ea.
Avalon is only Ex Tier because it's phase shifting/Untouchable while activated, while having a disgusting passive of healing your wounds.


Theoretically, Even Durendal can be broken, be anything of a higher rank. And Last time I've checked, it's A+ Rank. And his abilities has a 3 miracle limit.
 
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I'd argue with a couple of those.
Enkidu Elish scales damage proportional to the damage inflicted on the planet. Since Ea pops the planet's Reality Marble, that essentially maxes it.
Akhilles Kosmos is explicitly weak to Anti-World NPs, so it has a "crippling" (insofar as Anti-World NPs exist, even if they're not exactly common) shortcoming that Avalon doesn't.
I'm convinced that Gil is nerfed to oblivion and back in strange fake, because Excalibur, let alone Ea, should have one-shot Alc, Nine Lives + King's Order combo be damned. Reincarnation Pandora is probably the only thing that needs worrying about, and due to the nature of Ea and how UBW interacted with it, it's anyone's guess as to if it would actually work.
Even Eighth Implement probably would have trouble due to Ea not registering as a weapon to begin with, especially considering Benkei is a, to be blunt, shit-tier Servant in practice.

tl;dr: Ea does actually deserve its hype, as does Avalon. Bastion, in turn, is a pretty big deal and should not be underestimated.
 
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Grand order Benkei is not the real Benkei. Hence why he's garbage. The qualification to be affected by Eighth Implement probably isn't an issue either. Ea is hard to call a sword. It isn't hard to call it a weapon or a noble phantasm which is what matters to Eighth Implement. UBW is another matter entirely because as a generality, UBW has issues with divine constructs I believe. I'm not all too familiar with strange fake so not commenting on that. Ea is powerful. It is also a bit unwieldy due to the power involved and is only available to Gilgamesh anyway who is not present as far as I know. However, concerning Bastion (which I'm fairly sure isn't in that power class anyway), it is easy to counter. A high power attack that is difficult to defend against can kill you. A barrier that is hard to penetrate isn't going to. There's a clear difference between something you must defend correctly every time and something you must only get through once... or perhaps not at all. The simple gae bolg method I mentioned before doesn't work concerning Ea due to the fact that an unfavorable situation will simply lead to it killing you. However with a defense alone with heavy prana cost activation, this doesn't apply. There are any number of methods to beat it, including making them use it. Avalon too is in a far different class, being a prana cheat and high speed regen, giving it massive passive advantages which are honestly much more important than the actual defense. One of the passives also helps mitigate the main issues of a large defense NP, the prana cost. So Bastion is really quite weak in comparison and when you look critically at it is nothing in the slightest to worry about.
 
I'm not referring to that Benkei. I'm talking about the one that was in the Apocrypha material.

I won't argue that you can't call Ea a NP, but calling it a "weapon" is a bit of a stretch in the first place, considering it was constructed long before the concept of a weapon existed. Honestly though, I doubt we know enough about Eighth Implement to actually have this discussion in a serious capacity, so I'll stop.

My point is that if the Rank correlates to what kind of thing can be blocked safely, then Saber is pretty dangerous, especially since spammable instakill NPs aren't commonplace.
 
I don't think we know enough about Eighth Implement either but from what we do know, I think it qualifies as far as what we do know. Ea was made before the concept of a "sword" but I am unaware of it being made before the concept of a weapon.

I don't think gae bolg is needed per se to refute bastion. It is just the most extreme example. The threat of bastion is there but that threat is small due to tradeoffs. I look at it like this. Every time any big attack, be it a non NP, a C rank NP, or an A rank NP, the choice has to be made to expend the prana to use Bastion or not. If it is an A rank, it is more worth it to use bastion. If it isn't, then using it entails spending much more prana than the opponent did at which point, damage might not have been done but a huge advantage was gained. The price paid just by using it is heavy. I look at it like an ability that turns a lethal blow into one that gets you in an uninjured appendage. You use it once and get your off arm disabled. A disadvantage. Use it twice and one of your legs goes down. Another disadvantage. Etc, etc. The prana disadvantage is about that important. One doesn't need to actually kill the servant outright. Making him spend all his prana or so much of it that he can't effectively fight anymore is as good as winning. If anything, a defensive NP is generally most important in usefulness based upon its flexibility and bastion is not flexible.

I'm going to stop now too since I think Akashi wouldn't terribly appreciate me breaking down more of a full guide on how to make bastion useless.
 
It's more that Berserker Herk is always nerfed. And Otherwise, always been stated to be equal. In the visual novel itself. It's not that Gil Is Nerfed. It's rather that Gil always was negligent anyway and it keeps biting him in the ass.

Eight implement: We do. It's been removed exactly because it's stupid broken against NP that are physical items. "Let my try this excalibur", and after a limit of said use, which might be one, 3, or seven. "Ok. I'm satisfied." I think the issue is the number of uses.

Lancelot never had any business making Gilgamesh look like a bitch. Yet. He did. It's really about the character more than anything.

EA is an NP by material. Just like Excalibur Proto, or even Rhongomyniad. Divine Construct EX Rank. It's just not as invincible as people makes it out to be. And It's still Classified as a sword, even thought it existed before the very concept.

No one Brought King Hassan. Azrael never cared about shields and... It's a C rank NP. "Yo Tiamat. Taste DEATH." He's the closest to spammable, and he's really, really, really gross.

I also imagine that the Original Raw Ass to be solid too.
 
Would anyone like to be Wukong's master? You can PM me
 
I don't think we know enough about Eighth Implement either but from what we do know, I think it qualifies as far as what we do know. Ea was made before the concept of a "sword" but I am unaware of it being made before the concept of a weapon.

I don't think gae bolg is needed per se to refute bastion. It is just the most extreme example. The threat of bastion is there but that threat is small due to tradeoffs. I look at it like this. Every time any big attack, be it a non NP, a C rank NP, or an A rank NP, the choice has to be made to expend the prana to use Bastion or not. If it is an A rank, it is more worth it to use bastion. If it isn't, then using it entails spending much more prana than the opponent did at which point, damage might not have been done but a huge advantage was gained. The price paid just by using it is heavy. I look at it like an ability that turns a lethal blow into one that gets you in an uninjured appendage. You use it once and get your off arm disabled. A disadvantage. Use it twice and one of your legs goes down. Another disadvantage. Etc, etc. The prana disadvantage is about that important. One doesn't need to actually kill the servant outright. Making him spend all his prana or so much of it that he can't effectively fight anymore is as good as winning. If anything, a defensive NP is generally most important in usefulness based upon its flexibility and bastion is not flexible.

I'm going to stop now too since I think Akashi wouldn't terribly appreciate me breaking down more of a full guide on how to make bastion useless.
I don't think you breaking it down is a problem at all. This isn't about the battles, it's about the RPing. What some people seem to have a problem with is that Akashi made an NP that is nearly impenetrable so it's super OP, when RPing is about the writing over being strong. Heck, I'd happily tell everyone every single weakness of Sinbad. No one is going to meta game. And again, with so many skills and two super powerful NP's, Roland seems pretty OP. Plus if Akashi was seriously thinking of having a Reality Marble on top of that it's be overkill.
 
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I know it isn't theoretically a problem. Some people don't take terribly well to it so I prefer to try to keep it down a bit. I've explained before and when other people make use of it have had the other person accuse them of metagaming. And sometimes I've been pretty sure they were right.
 
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Everything always has a weakness. So in essence, everything can be neutralized and/or countered. But I don't exactly see Shaggy from Scooby Doo doing his homework. However, with how the throne of heroes work. Everyone ,kind of knows it already, on the mention of the name of X person. Hence why "No name is called". "Yo, Archer. Get me some water. Hey Saber. Cook for me. Hey, waiter. Chek please."
 
I know it isn't theoretically a problem. Some people don't take terribly well to it so I prefer to try to keep it down a bit. I've explained before and when other people make use of it have had the other person accuse them of metagaming. And sometimes I've been pretty sure they were right.
Yeah it can be a problem for sure. With the people we have though I'm pretty confident no one here would metagame. Everyone seems more interested in the RP over seeming like a badass, besides maybe one or two. But hey, it's a risk that I think everyone should take.
 
Metagaming ruins the fun.
 
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Doesn't mean I want to push it too far, though. At least not without Akashi or whoever giving a go ahead. Heck, I'm not even involved. I'd rather not have people pointing fingers at me for supposedly soiling something.
 
Not everyone should be James Morehearty, either.
 
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As a side not, I just thought I'd bring up and mention something a lot of people forget in Fate RP's. Artoria, Gilgamesh, and Heracles are like top tier, so not everyone needs to be as strong as them. They have reasons to be as strong as they are. I always see people making super strong Servants, when it is either not needed or doesn't fit.
 
Agh, I was going to respond to all of these in detail and my wi-fi crashed and now I can't be bothered beyond saying "Alc needs EX END, Benkei is his own worst enemy because of two conflicting NPs, anyone who qualifies as a Grand can get off my lawn".

Basically, Saber is not to be taken lightly is all I was saying, as Sabers should be.

We did end up succumbing to the zeroth law of Fate threads though, which is amusing to me.
 
Agh, I was going to respond to all of these in detail and my wi-fi crashed and now I can't be bothered beyond saying "Alc needs EX END, Benkei is his own worst enemy because of two conflicting NPs, anyone who qualifies as a Grand can get off my lawn".

Basically, Saber is not to be taken lightly is all I was saying, as Sabers should be.

We did end up succumbing to the zeroth law of Fate threads though, which is amusing to me.
Haha, which law is that?
 
Either way. All you need to know is that Mash is getting mashed.
 
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