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Paorou-sama
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I suggest that you get other guys to handle the move approving too, Asmo. You're getting tons of players now.
VAULT WAR - Chat & Questions
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K
Kitti
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Paorou-sama
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My issue with the age needing a certain number of posts is that the game would drag with our current system. The strict adherence to 24 hours that we have now makes planning and capturing one world unwieldy as it is. It also means that people stuck in the older thread sectors (Coordinates) will have a harder time moving around, when compared to the guys who started in the newer sectors.
It makes people like Nic (Who has low power, age of 10+) have problems getting up to speed with everyone else.
In my opinion, the game was easy to get into because of the beauty of crossing worlds just like that, and getting stuff you wanted from each, using it for the following invasions. With this post-age setup, capturing worlds becomes more of a daily chore than anything.
Not just for players, also for the vault war mods. Not only do you have to track movement, you also have to track world capture percentages each day.
HOWEVER, If you guys really want to take the age->posts route, I suggest we save it for combat between the vault players. Maybe add another win condition, that is - if the assaulting player can make a number of posts equal to the age value of the world he wishes to take from his opponent, without draining out his power, (It doesn't reach zero) he insta-wins.
This could represent a siege, and older worlds will become effectively better fortresses to fight in.
This could settle battles between archons who ban each other's power but cannot effectively kill each other with sanity.
We could also make this work both ways and simply count defender's posts and attacker's posts. Whoever reaches the thread age value first wins the battle. Multiple vault lords could contribute to the post count toward thread age, making allies even more useful in pvp.
This will also make high-power lords think twice about using their power all at once in a fight.
It makes people like Nic (Who has low power, age of 10+) have problems getting up to speed with everyone else.
In my opinion, the game was easy to get into because of the beauty of crossing worlds just like that, and getting stuff you wanted from each, using it for the following invasions. With this post-age setup, capturing worlds becomes more of a daily chore than anything.
Not just for players, also for the vault war mods. Not only do you have to track movement, you also have to track world capture percentages each day.
HOWEVER, If you guys really want to take the age->posts route, I suggest we save it for combat between the vault players. Maybe add another win condition, that is - if the assaulting player can make a number of posts equal to the age value of the world he wishes to take from his opponent, without draining out his power, (It doesn't reach zero) he insta-wins.
This could represent a siege, and older worlds will become effectively better fortresses to fight in.
This could settle battles between archons who ban each other's power but cannot effectively kill each other with sanity.
We could also make this work both ways and simply count defender's posts and attacker's posts. Whoever reaches the thread age value first wins the battle. Multiple vault lords could contribute to the post count toward thread age, making allies even more useful in pvp.
This will also make high-power lords think twice about using their power all at once in a fight.
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A
Acquariana
Guest
Okay, assuming I could use the moderation strength to tamper with a stat such as power for an unoccupied world I intend to conquer, would the amount of power I gain be altered to reflect the fact that I've used my ability on it, or would I gain the original power of the world before I used that ability?
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That was indeed my intention.
Correct.
Original power.
Okay, sorry for the absence everyone. I'll get the rules update sorted shortly and reopen the War Record.
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Okay, so quick summary. Let me know if I've got anything wrong.
Harvest either the POWER, AGE or SAN stat from conquered worlds (this is the total stat - not the difference)
Age is now a way of drawing out combat. Divide your age by 10 (rounding up) and this is the number of posts your enemy must make to get an insta-win. Allies can contribute to breaking this limit.
Sanity is... the same (?)... or we could use it as a power-limiter. I.E. find the difference between each player's sanity and this is reduced from the opponent's next attack.
And all Absolutes can remain as they are... but maybe Power Absolutes can be used every 5 posts or something...
*clutches head* Uuuurgh...
Harvest either the POWER, AGE or SAN stat from conquered worlds (this is the total stat - not the difference)
Age is now a way of drawing out combat. Divide your age by 10 (rounding up) and this is the number of posts your enemy must make to get an insta-win. Allies can contribute to breaking this limit.
Sanity is... the same (?)... or we could use it as a power-limiter. I.E. find the difference between each player's sanity and this is reduced from the opponent's next attack.
And all Absolutes can remain as they are... but maybe Power Absolutes can be used every 5 posts or something...
*clutches head* Uuuurgh...
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Porg
Guest
Do you harvest the power for the stat you want? or do you harvest the total of that stat for each stat?
S
SnowLily
Guest
Wait...what? O.o so let me understand this age thing correctly, if that number turns out to be 1 or 2, than my attacker only has to wait a single turn or so and they instantly beat me?
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*kicks that rule out the window*
Well if we don't divide by 10 it'll be sucky. All you have to do is boost your Age stat to 30 or so and no one will ever be able to beat you that way (cos who is gonna bother typing 30 posts?)
I think the insta-win option needs to be kicked.
What we need is a simple way to use Age to break down, block or divide the amount of Power your opponent can use in one turn. That's a good reflection of what Age represents (the difficulty of taking on a world with lots of history and culture)
Well if we don't divide by 10 it'll be sucky. All you have to do is boost your Age stat to 30 or so and no one will ever be able to beat you that way (cos who is gonna bother typing 30 posts?)
I think the insta-win option needs to be kicked.
What we need is a simple way to use Age to break down, block or divide the amount of Power your opponent can use in one turn. That's a good reflection of what Age represents (the difficulty of taking on a world with lots of history and culture)
P
Paorou-sama
Guest
The insta-win rule I proposed was originally dependent on the world's age, not your own - so some worlds take longer to fight over than others. I didn't expect the division by ten though, I was planning to keep the age as is when considering it.
Yes, threads which have an age value of 2 or less are really easy to capture - but consider that threads need a few months to reach the large reply count. (50+) This will also balance out the incredible potential of stocking up on sanity with single-stat harvest. Also, please consider that finding an age 3 much less an age 1 thread is incredibly hard. This is why I don't mind this trade-off at all.
Remember that combat is still counted in posts-per-day, and considering the power levels of some players here, combat is easily a one-post instavictory anyway.
One way we can make this more feasible is that the alternative insta-win count is essentially "age of thread + 10% (division by ten)" of the defender's age. This makes the minimum post-to-win count 2, rather than one. It also makes age-hoarders harder to siege.
With regards to alternative Age uses, consider my earlier proposal of Age Absolutes serving as damage reduction that's always active. Only the basic use of the age stat actually heals damage.
__________________________________________
Post-count and Age proposal aside, I stick with my opinion that the basic combat rules we started with are easy to get into and are quite fine by me.
With stat harvest though, I can see why many people are uncomfortable with balance; One way we can address this is if we have use of the basic stats 'drain' from their own values, similar to power's own draining ability.
So basic power remains the same (drain your own power and deal that damage) it also is your combat health stat.
Age becomes drain some of your own age to keep your power up.
With sanity, I was thinking that you drain a number of points and compare it to the enemy's sanity OR the value of the last basic attack/age/sanity used by that character, then deal that much damage to the enemy's power.
Actually, I'm not quite sure with the sanity stat, as always.
Yes, threads which have an age value of 2 or less are really easy to capture - but consider that threads need a few months to reach the large reply count. (50+) This will also balance out the incredible potential of stocking up on sanity with single-stat harvest. Also, please consider that finding an age 3 much less an age 1 thread is incredibly hard. This is why I don't mind this trade-off at all.
Remember that combat is still counted in posts-per-day, and considering the power levels of some players here, combat is easily a one-post instavictory anyway.
One way we can make this more feasible is that the alternative insta-win count is essentially "age of thread + 10% (division by ten)" of the defender's age. This makes the minimum post-to-win count 2, rather than one. It also makes age-hoarders harder to siege.
With regards to alternative Age uses, consider my earlier proposal of Age Absolutes serving as damage reduction that's always active. Only the basic use of the age stat actually heals damage.
__________________________________________
Post-count and Age proposal aside, I stick with my opinion that the basic combat rules we started with are easy to get into and are quite fine by me.
With stat harvest though, I can see why many people are uncomfortable with balance; One way we can address this is if we have use of the basic stats 'drain' from their own values, similar to power's own draining ability.
So basic power remains the same (drain your own power and deal that damage) it also is your combat health stat.
Age becomes drain some of your own age to keep your power up.
With sanity, I was thinking that you drain a number of points and compare it to the enemy's sanity OR the value of the last basic attack/age/sanity used by that character, then deal that much damage to the enemy's power.
Actually, I'm not quite sure with the sanity stat, as always.
W
Wallflower
Guest
What if we have the Age stat defend against the Power stat instead of Power v Power? I mean, it'd take some changing of the tables, but maybe...
I didn't really have a follow up to that, take it where you will.
I didn't really have a follow up to that, take it where you will.
P
Porg
Guest
Ok so I'm gonna write out a full suggestion for the system, take bits, leave bits, take all, leave all, whatever. Hope it helps.
Power is your catch-all attack stat in combat.
When you're taking over an unoccupied world you can win the battle simply by having more Power than it has replies (it's power stat.).
When fighting an occupied world you may make a Power attack as your turn's move. Subtract an amount from your power stat and plus 5 to it to deal damage to the enemy's power. (This means that there's a reason to not just insta wipe a lower power player off the map, which is something that's been worrying me, by making it so you can get more damage with lots of little attacks than you can with one big one. It also means that fights aren't gonna entirely be about who has the most power sometimes.)
Age is your catch-all defence stat.
When taking over an unoccupied world you cannot use age.
When battling another player you may use the Age stat as your turns move. You can either block damage or regenerate your power.
To block, choose an amount and subtract it from your Age. The enemy's Power attack will do that much less damage BEFORE IT HITS YOU (seriously it was possible to get one-shot and be able to do literally nothing about it).
Or you may regenerate your power up to the amount of your current Age, however this happens after you take any damage heading your way.
Sanity is your utility stat.
When taking an unoccupied world you must subtract it's Sanity from your own, and if the result is larger than the worlds replies (Power) then you can take it over.
When battling other players you may use Sanity as your turns move. You may either sap their strength or confuse their forces. To sap their strength choose an amount and subtract it from your sanity. Deal half this amount (rounded down) to the enemy's Power Age and Sanity. You cannot bring someone below 1 power with this.
Of you may confuse the enemy. Subtract the enemy's Age from your Sanity, if it's still positive you may make a confuse attack. deal the difference in damage to the opponent's Power, if this reduces them below half of their max power you may end the battle as a stalemate draw.The world cannot be attacked by the same player for 3 days. Ghost worlds only need to reduce the Power below 3/4. (I don't like this personally.. but I think there needs to be a way to escape with a world intact. Cos currently if you get attacked by someone stronger than you who you cannot hope to beat the options are.. lose and forfeit your world.. or run and forfeit your world..)
When you successfully take a world choose one of the following.
Add it's Power to your Power
Add it's Age to your Age.
Add it's Sanity to your Sanity.
Absolutes are made in the same fashion (up to the Power/Age/Sanity of a single world you own, reduce your stats by the amount you want the absolute to be.)
All Absolutes basically act as free-moves of their own stats, once per combat. So you can block a move with an Age absolute and use a Power attack in the same turn, or double up on stats.
Maybe you could use several absolutes in the same turn?
Think that's everything..
Power is your catch-all attack stat in combat.
When you're taking over an unoccupied world you can win the battle simply by having more Power than it has replies (it's power stat.).
When fighting an occupied world you may make a Power attack as your turn's move. Subtract an amount from your power stat and plus 5 to it to deal damage to the enemy's power. (This means that there's a reason to not just insta wipe a lower power player off the map, which is something that's been worrying me, by making it so you can get more damage with lots of little attacks than you can with one big one. It also means that fights aren't gonna entirely be about who has the most power sometimes.)
Age is your catch-all defence stat.
When taking over an unoccupied world you cannot use age.
When battling another player you may use the Age stat as your turns move. You can either block damage or regenerate your power.
To block, choose an amount and subtract it from your Age. The enemy's Power attack will do that much less damage BEFORE IT HITS YOU (seriously it was possible to get one-shot and be able to do literally nothing about it).
Or you may regenerate your power up to the amount of your current Age, however this happens after you take any damage heading your way.
Sanity is your utility stat.
When taking an unoccupied world you must subtract it's Sanity from your own, and if the result is larger than the worlds replies (Power) then you can take it over.
When battling other players you may use Sanity as your turns move. You may either sap their strength or confuse their forces. To sap their strength choose an amount and subtract it from your sanity. Deal half this amount (rounded down) to the enemy's Power Age and Sanity. You cannot bring someone below 1 power with this.
Of you may confuse the enemy. Subtract the enemy's Age from your Sanity, if it's still positive you may make a confuse attack. deal the difference in damage to the opponent's Power, if this reduces them below half of their max power you may end the battle as a stalemate draw.The world cannot be attacked by the same player for 3 days. Ghost worlds only need to reduce the Power below 3/4. (I don't like this personally.. but I think there needs to be a way to escape with a world intact. Cos currently if you get attacked by someone stronger than you who you cannot hope to beat the options are.. lose and forfeit your world.. or run and forfeit your world..)
When you successfully take a world choose one of the following.
Add it's Power to your Power
Add it's Age to your Age.
Add it's Sanity to your Sanity.
Absolutes are made in the same fashion (up to the Power/Age/Sanity of a single world you own, reduce your stats by the amount you want the absolute to be.)
All Absolutes basically act as free-moves of their own stats, once per combat. So you can block a move with an Age absolute and use a Power attack in the same turn, or double up on stats.
Maybe you could use several absolutes in the same turn?
Think that's everything..
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Okay, I think we're getting somewhere. AGE and SANITY are supposed to be opposites. The Vault is a place of chaos, and the longer you stay there the more your mind is unravelled. It doesn't make sense for a Sanity Taunt to drain your physical attack power. So...
We keep POWER as it is, but use Porg's +5 rule. Whatever you drain from yourself can be used to harm your enemy.
Power Absolutes limit this drain. Let's say by half, to keep it simple.
Age is a block/scatter/shield. Whatever you drain from Age is thrown up as a barrier against attacks.
Either use an amount of your Age to reduce your opponent's attack. OR, recover Power up to your current Age score.
Age Absolutes could be an ongoing shield. They are in effect every round.
Sanity is about exploiting the perils of old age - taunting, wearing down the mind, infuriating and deceiving. Therefore, your Sanity is used to directly attack the opponent's Age stat, or to confuse their attacks.
Either subtract your San from their age and use this as a Power block (on condition that you take no other actions that turn). OR, subtract an amount from your Sanity and use it to damage your opponent's Age.
Sanity Absolutes can be used to apply "caps" to the strength of an opponent's Age Shield.
Is that any better? o_O
We keep POWER as it is, but use Porg's +5 rule. Whatever you drain from yourself can be used to harm your enemy.
Power Absolutes limit this drain. Let's say by half, to keep it simple.
Age is a block/scatter/shield. Whatever you drain from Age is thrown up as a barrier against attacks.
Either use an amount of your Age to reduce your opponent's attack. OR, recover Power up to your current Age score.
Age Absolutes could be an ongoing shield. They are in effect every round.
Sanity is about exploiting the perils of old age - taunting, wearing down the mind, infuriating and deceiving. Therefore, your Sanity is used to directly attack the opponent's Age stat, or to confuse their attacks.
Either subtract your San from their age and use this as a Power block (on condition that you take no other actions that turn). OR, subtract an amount from your Sanity and use it to damage your opponent's Age.
Sanity Absolutes can be used to apply "caps" to the strength of an opponent's Age Shield.
Is that any better? o_O
P
Porg
Guest
Sounds good to me. but there's one thing that i don't think works.
This is supposed to be about subverting high Age stats and turning them against people right? Well at the moment the lower the enemy age the better as far as I can tell.
I'd suggest:
Choose an amount and subtract it from your Sanity. Add it to the opponent's current Age and block incoming damage up to that amount this turn.
This is supposed to be about subverting high Age stats and turning them against people right? Well at the moment the lower the enemy age the better as far as I can tell.
I'd suggest:
Choose an amount and subtract it from your Sanity. Add it to the opponent's current Age and block incoming damage up to that amount this turn.
P
Paorou-sama
Guest
No complaints with the new combat rules other than Porg's concern. I find both solutions with using age against the opponent to be unfair.
Consider that with Porg's suggestion, regardless of the sanity amount used, you are still using the FULL AGE STAT of your opponent against him.
I'd rather that:
Sanity can be used to deflect power attacks. Calculate the difference between your SAN and your opponent's AGE, then reduce your sanity by that amount. You reduce the next power attack by this amount.
This way Sanity is more of a versatile stat (It can damage age, it can defend) than an overpowered one that abuses Age values. Thus, the only real way to become overpowered with sanity is to focus all gathering toward the sanity value.
Sanity Absolutes, in my opinion, should work like this:
When you activate your sanity absolute, select an opponent's basic stat and reduce it by an amount equal to the sanity points of your sanity absolute. Whenever he uses a basic maneuver of that stat, he/she may not use more than this value for the rest of the battle. The absolute activated in this way can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.
Another issue I have with this is that, without the sanity attack's old rules, conquering worlds will be severely limited, especially for those with low attack.
Consider that with Porg's suggestion, regardless of the sanity amount used, you are still using the FULL AGE STAT of your opponent against him.
I'd rather that:
Sanity can be used to deflect power attacks. Calculate the difference between your SAN and your opponent's AGE, then reduce your sanity by that amount. You reduce the next power attack by this amount.
This way Sanity is more of a versatile stat (It can damage age, it can defend) than an overpowered one that abuses Age values. Thus, the only real way to become overpowered with sanity is to focus all gathering toward the sanity value.
Sanity Absolutes, in my opinion, should work like this:
When you activate your sanity absolute, select an opponent's basic stat and reduce it by an amount equal to the sanity points of your sanity absolute. Whenever he uses a basic maneuver of that stat, he/she may not use more than this value for the rest of the battle. The absolute activated in this way can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.
Another issue I have with this is that, without the sanity attack's old rules, conquering worlds will be severely limited, especially for those with low attack.
- Writing Levels
- Adaptable
- Genres
- I'm wary of magic with lots of rules.
After new rules are implemented, can we get an additional day or so of grace to understand them? I'm sure many people will be unfamiliar with the rules, except for the ones who will intimately know their ins and outs due to having helped balance them.
P
Porg
Guest
I dunno if this is a good suggestion but I thought it was at least interesting from a flavour standpoint.
What if Sanity decreased by 10% of your sanity for every conquest you make? Unless you decide to harvest the Sanity stat?
What if Sanity decreased by 10% of your sanity for every conquest you make? Unless you decide to harvest the Sanity stat?
Q
Quill
Guest
Once a world is conquered, there has got to be a way to gain some power from it, though it could of course be an optional move. Otherwise someone like me, with a 9-power world, has some serious issues conquering just about any world, especially with stats like sanity downsized.
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I'm gonna send out a new quick-start manual when I reopen the game.
I think that's over-complicating it. But I may bring that in later when I start using Genre rules. Maybe if you have too many conflicting genres your sanity drops, or something.
You mean there should be an option to use your worlds like factories and produce power/sanity/age, instead of taking a move?