Trump Rally Riot in Chicago

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How is protesting infringing on people's rights? Last time I checked, it wasn't.
Because it's Trump's rally and his private property he has the right to remove anyone out because it's his property not theirs. If they want to protest then should of done it outside. If a group of protesters showed up at your house and started to violently protest aren't they violating your rights? Not to mention the protesters using violence which is completely wrong no matter the case.
 
Brovo said this which implied it:

"It makes me want to hug a ferret and hope it will get better. Because it looks like y'all are going to have a few truly shit years. Whether it's by the censorship spewing progressive extreme or by the thinly veiled ubermenge racists among the Conservatives. The loud mad shouty fuckers have a chokehold on your politics on both sides. It's not good."
Note, I carefully omitted "Republican." In the same way that locally here in Canada, I'd typically say "socialist" and not "NDP." A party may typically have more of X type of voter, but not everyone who falls within that political mindset or who holds those political beliefs will necessarily vote for that party. I don't vote NDP in spite of being mid to far left: They often fail to reflect any of my views in a realistic manner, which forces me to vote for the more realistic parties.

Basically, that means that you can have members of the KKK voting Republican, but that does not mean that the Republican party suddenly stands for the KKK, or reflects policies to the extremes which the KKK would want. You can also have members of the KKK voting Democrat, doesn't mean that the general Democratic consensus nowadays is KKK friendly.

Freedom of Association is powerful, and I tend to respect it highly as part of my personal values. Republicans can be whoever they want to be and believe whatever it is they want to believe in. So can Democrats. If one Republican is a racist, that does not by association make other Republicans racist.

It's why people like Trump do everything they can to poison large groups of people by association. ISIS exists? All Muslims must be stopped from entering the country! Some Mexicans deal drugs? We must build a wall and stop all the Mexicans! The moment you disenfranchise a person's value by associating them with something vile (ex: Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers, Muslims are all terrorists, et cetera) is the moment you can prevent your followers from being influenced by them. Divide and Conquer. A tactic so old, that Julius Caesar used it against the various factions within and surrounding the Gauls to obtain total victory for the Roman Empire.

Right now, the loud trumpeting horns of idiocy plague both political parties in different but generally equally shitty ways. A lot of voters are deadlocking to a party out of some sort of fucked up, fever dream loyalty instead of evaluating their principles and seeing if their local candidate from parties X and Y reflect those values. There are loud shouty mad fuckers within the Republican party that say horrible things (namely Trump), but by no stretch of the imagination does that represent what all or even the majority of Republican voters and party members think. The media gives attention to the loud shouty mad fuckers, however, instead of more sensible if somewhat boring people. It gives a bad impression to an entire group of people (in this case, Republicans) because of the actions of some minority of deranged assholes who happen to be voting Republican right now.

If it means anything, if I were American, I would probably be voting for a Republican candidate who would promise to cut the government spending down. I don't care how at this point: It's so utterly grotesque and out of control that cuts just need to start happening period, the current size cannot be sustained the way it is. And I'm saying this as someone who is, by all means, traditionally mid-left, who would normally implore the government to do more to prevent corporate oligarchies from rigging markets and fucking the consumer sideways.

Hell, my father is himself a Conservative. He's voted right wing for several years running. He's no racist, and he's no horrible person for it. Hell, he's a great guy, though obviously I'd imagine my opinion might be a tad biased given the circumstances. If I hated all Conservatives, I'd first have to hate him, and I can't imagine doing that anytime soon, so... No need to assume that I hate your GOP. I don't. I just think it's in a shitty spot right now. :ferret:
Traditionalism has its advantages, it's been proven that children from single-parent households do worse compared children from a two parent household. They are more susceptible to committing crimes, using drugs, dropping out of high school, and teenage pregnancy.
Yet at the same time, you have Republican candidates and Republican voters who would prevent gay couples from adopting children, leave alone getting married. Traditionalism also has its flaws.
Society and children for that matter would benefit significantly if the divorce rate was not so high and the nuclear family was encouraged.
The nuclear family is already encouraged. It's economically advantageous and there are tax benefits for married couples that nobody else gets. The issue isn't encouraging it. It's already being encouraged. Like, a lot.
... What? That link actually says they don't. It outright calls it "intellectual detritus" and it blows giant chunks into that theory, and rightfully so. It's not even logical to compare the standards of renaissance Europe to today.
It's simply not true to say nuclear families are not special there is sociological evidence that nuclear families are more child center and adaptable compared to other family system. Here is a quick quote from this source which has the evidence I mentioned:
They're not though. You could just as easily achieve a nuclear family situation with gay couples, or really any pair of adults that desire to raise a child together. The issue is that the overall buying power of the average adult has sunk. It's dropped. People can't afford better for their children, and their children are growing up in a generation with the highest records of overall job losses and highest amounts of student loans, atop some of the most utterly idiotic prices for housing that the market has ever seen. Even adjusted for inflation, it's nearly three times more expensive to buy a house now than it was in the 1970's. Comparing the 50's nuclear family to today is disingenuous and severely underplays the role the economy's health has on the mental well being of people.

Hell, the reason people don't die of diseases like smallpox today isn't because the average person suddenly has more wealth, it's simply because access to medicine has become much cheaper and more effective than it's ever been in history. Ironically, inventions like penicillin for the common good of all instead of personal greed did far more than the improvement of individual wealth ever did.
Not to mention the protesters using violence which is completely wrong no matter the case.
The point violence occurred is the point at which all talk of rights became meaningless.
 
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Because it's Trump's rally and his private property he has the right to remove anyone out because it's his property not theirs. If they want to protest then should of done it outside. If a group of protesters showed up at your house and started to violently protest aren't they violating your rights? Not to mention the protesters using violence which is completely wrong no matter the case.

Chicago isn't Trump's private property. No he doesn't have the right to remove them. Unless the rally is at his own home, he owns NO PLACE that he speaks at. He is merely a guest there.

And if Trump's supporters used violence against the protestors first? I wouldn't be surprised since Trump has encouraged them to do so and even said that he'd bail them out if they wound up in jail.
 
Because it's Trump's rally and his private property he has the right to remove anyone out because it's his property not theirs. If they want to protest then should of done it outside. If a group of protesters showed up at your house and started to violently protest aren't they violating your rights? Not to mention the protesters using violence which is completely wrong no matter the case.
Not all of the rallies people have been removed from are his property. Even protesting outside of the location is grounds to be arrested or removed I think.

It has happened to peaceful protesters as well.

Though most Trump supporters are ignorant or scum. You have to be ignorant to support Trump, or be scum. lol You can not be a decent human being and think that government institutionalized bigotry is ok.
 
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I don't see traditionalism as xenophobic, traditionalism has applied to all races historically it's not just thing white people only do. And you've just proved my pointed traditionalism HAS supported the nuclear family.

And confirmation bias on that one. You need evidence to support your point because right now it's just anecdotal. And i've addressed what you said about factors people were dying in drove and dying of smallpox in the past.

I said earlier that Republicans usually preach "family values" which is basically their way of saying homophobia. Why do they preach that? Because they're traditionalists. See my point now?
 
I said earlier that Republicans usually preach "family values" which is basically their way of saying homophobia. Why do they preach that? Because they're traditionalists. See my point now?
I'm a republican. I'm from Oklahoma, the most conservative state in the country. I am also a Christ follower and attend a Christian University. I'm not homophobic. Though the reason a lot of Republicans are homophobic is because they are religious. The church has fucked up big time in how it deals with homosexuality. I pity most christians who hate homosexuals, as they were taught that way in most cases. Which is straight up wrong and not debatable if they knew the Bible.

I support gay marriage even though I am a Christ follower. Why? Because as a "Christian", I should want equality for all. On that same note, as a citizen of this country, I want the government to obviously support equality for all as well.
 
I'm a republican. I'm from Oklahoma, the most conservative state in the country. I am also a Christ follower and attend a Christian University. I'm not homophobic. Though the reason a lot of Republicans are homophobic is because they are religious. The church has fucked up big time in how it deals with homosexuality. I pity most christians who hate homosexuals, as they were taught that way in most cases. Which is straight up wrong and not debatable if they knew the Bible.

I support gay marriage even though I am a Christ follower. Why? Because as a "Christian", I should want equality for all. On that same note, as a citizen of this country, I want the government to obviously support equality for all as well.

Oklahoma is more conservative than the southern U.S.? Who would've thought?

Religion and traditionalism go hand in hand most of the time.

I actually have some Christian friends who are either bi or gay so I sympathize with your position.
 
Note, I carefully omitted "Republican." In the same way that locally here in Canada, I'd typically say "socialist" and not "NDP." A party may typically have more of X type of voter, but not everyone who falls within that political mindset or who holds those political beliefs will necessarily vote for that party. I don't vote NDP in spite of being mid to far left: They often fail to reflect any of my views in a realistic manner, which forces me to vote for the more realistic parties.
Conservative is strongly associated with the Republican party in the United States, it still carries the implication that you were talking about the Republican party which is the mainstream conservative party. If I misinterpreted what you said then I apologize.


It's why people like Trump do everything they can to poison large groups of people by association. ISIS exists? All Muslims must be stopped from entering the country! Some Mexicans deal drugs? We must build a wall and stop all the Mexicans! The moment you disenfranchise a person's value by associating them with something vile (ex: Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers, Muslims are all terrorists, et cetera) is the moment you can prevent your followers from being influenced by them. Divide and Conquer. A tactic so old, that Julius Caesar used it against the various factions within and surrounding the Gauls to obtain total victory for the Roman Empire.
Agreed.
Right now, the loud trumpeting horns of idiocy plague both political parties in different but generally equally shitty ways. A lot of voters are deadlocking to a party out of some sort of fucked up, fever dream loyalty instead of evaluating their principles and seeing if their local candidate from parties X and Y reflect those values. There are loud shouty mad fuckers within the Republican party that say horrible things (namely Trump), but by no stretch of the imagination does that represent what all or even the majority of Republican voters and party members think. The media gives attention to the loud shouty mad fuckers, however, instead of more sensible if somewhat boring people. It gives a bad impression to an entire group of people (in this case, Republicans) because of the actions of some minority of deranged assholes who happen to be voting Republican right now.
Also Agreed.



Hell, my father is himself a Conservative. He's voted right wing for several years running. He's no racist, and he's no horrible person for it. Hell, he's a great guy, though obviously I'd imagine my opinion might be a tad biased given the circumstances. If I hated all Conservatives, I'd first have to hate him, and I can't imagine doing that anytime soon, so... No need to assume that I hate your GOP. I don't. I just think it's in a shitty spot right now. :ferret:
Sorry if I was too hostile there with my response. I clearly misunderstood your personal views and made assumptions.


Yet at the same time, you have Republican candidates and Republican voters who would prevent gay couples from adopting children, leave alone getting married. Traditionalism also has its flaws.
But that's not inherent in traditionalism. Traditionalism is heavily tied to some religious nuts ( That's why I'm not a traditionalist ) but it can be reformed to include gay couples. I completely agree with you can just have two parents regardless of their gender.

The nuclear family is already encouraged. It's economically advantageous and there are tax benefits for married couples that nobody else gets. The issue isn't encouraging it. It's already being encouraged. Like, a lot.
Not completely true ideologies like some branches of rad fems are very anti-family and single mothers also supported by state welfare which means that they don't need a man for finical support which was one of the reasons the nuclear family was so common. There's also more finical incentives to divorce since there is gender bias in the court system.


They're not though. You could just as easily achieve a nuclear family situation with gay couples, or really any pair of adults that desire to raise a child together. The issue is that the overall buying power of the average adult has sunk. It's dropped. People can't afford better for their children, and their children are growing up in a generation with the highest records of overall job losses and highest amounts of student loans, atop some of the most utterly idiotic prices for housing that the market has ever seen. Even adjusted for inflation, it's nearly three times more expensive to buy a house now than it was in the 1970's. Comparing the 50's nuclear family to today is disingenuous and severely underplays the role the economy's health has on the mental well being of people.
The study I mentioned is still valid. Having two sources of income instead of one also makes buying* overpriced homes easier.
 
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Not all of the rallies people have been removed from are his property. Even protesting outside of the location is grounds to be arrested or removed I think.

It has happened to peaceful protesters as well.

Though most Trump supporters are ignorant or scum. You have to be ignorant to support Trump, or be scum. lol You can not be a decent human being and think that government institutionalized bigotry is ok.
I'm not a trump supporter lol.
 
But that's not inherent in traditionalism. Traditionalism is heavily tied to some religious nuts ( That's why I'm not a traditionalist ) but it can be reformed to include gay couples. I completely agree with you can just have two parents regardless of their gender.
Yes, but to reform something is the definition of progress instead of tradition.

I think we can agree though that there's no need to vilify either side of the coin. There's valid ideas both in ideas that already are in use today and ideas that could help amend issues with the ideas of today. No need to abandon that which works, but no need to ignore that which could improve it either.
Not completely true ideologies like some branches of rad fems are very anti-family and single mothers also supported by state welfare which means that they don't need a man for finical support which was one of the reasons the nuclear family was so common. There's also more finical incentives to divorce since there is gender bias in the court system.
#1: I wouldn't use Rad Fems as the average litmus for most people. A lot of them would also support outright shredding capitalism and the bill of rights, and neither of those movements have any real traction in the United States. I'm entirely with you about disliking them though. I have a loooooong posting history on this forum of disliking radical feminism. Mind, I tend to see them more as the useful idiots for bigger, more scarier people. :ferret:

#2: State welfare could be done well enough to make single parent households function, but the welfare system in the US is pretty nightmarishly fucked up. It should also be noted that in the absence of a stable two parent household for children, alternatives need to be found to alleviate suffering of those children. That's also not generally being done very well.
The study I mentioned is still valid. Having two sources of income instead of one also makes being overpriced homes easier.
True, having two sources of income instead of one makes overpriced homes easier, but that still doesn't render the fact irrelevant that comparing the 1950's state of the family to today is a bit off. There's valid points there but they contribute to a larger total sum issue. Yes, single parent households are less efficient and less capable of raising children, but more people being imprisoned, shittier overall economic circumstances to try and raise children in, and falling standards of education are also part of the larger issue. Every affliction in society hits those who have the least, the hardest. And nobody has it worse off than a child growing up in poverty in a single parent household. They're a pretty good litmus test of how society is doing health-wise.

The US is not doing well right now.
 
I'm not a trump supporter lol.
I wasn't trying to say you were. I apologize if it sounded that way. I wasn't calling out anyone specific. Just making a statement.

I am only registered as a Republican because you must be registered in a party of some sort to vote. Which is fucked up in and of itself.

I don't believe in Political Parties and neither did the founding fathers. Also, no citizen should ever give up their liberties of any kind for safety of any kind. The founding fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw the country now.

""However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion." - George Washington in his Farewell Adress

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins." - Ben Franklin
 
Yes, but to reform something is the definition of progress instead of tradition.

I think we can agree though that there's no need to vilify either side of the coin. There's valid ideas both in ideas that already are in use today and ideas that could help amend issues with the ideas of today. No need to abandon that which works, but no need to ignore that which could improve it either.
Agreed.
#1: I wouldn't use Rad Fems as the average litmus for most people. A lot of them would also support outright shredding capitalism and the bill of rights, and neither of those movements have any real traction in the United States. I'm entirely with you about disliking them though. I have a loooooong posting history on this forum of disliking radical feminism. Mind, I tend to see them more as the useful idiots for bigger, more scarier people. :ferret:
Agreed. Rad Fems is basically an authoritarian ideology wrapped with a coat feminism.
#2: State welfare could be done well enough to make single parent households function, but the welfare system in the US is pretty nightmarishly fucked up. It should also be noted that in the absence of a stable two parent household for children, alternatives need to be found to alleviate suffering of those children. That's also not generally being done very well.
The welfare system really needs to be reformed so that the right kind of people (children, elderly, disabled) are getting it instead of able-bodied people that can get work. As dickish as this might sound, I think welfare for single moms should be cut somewhat to encourage the single mothers to marry men for finical support.
True, having two sources of income instead of one makes overpriced homes easier, but that still doesn't render the fact irrelevant that comparing the 1950's state of the family to today is a bit off. There's valid points there but they contribute to a larger total sum issue. Yes, single parent households are less efficient and less capable of raising children, but more people being imprisoned, shittier overall economic circumstances to try and raise children in, and falling standards of education are also part of the larger issue. Every affliction in society hits those who have the least, the hardest. And nobody has it worse off than a child growing up in poverty in a single parent household. They're a pretty good litmus test of how society is doing health-wise.
The large amounts of people getting imprisoned can almost be entirely blamed on the drug war and mandatory minimums. Since neo-cons declared a crusade against drug use, imprisonment has soared through the roof. The drug war has basically been a gigantic failure, and has resulted in millions of normal people who made one mistake in jail with gang members and hardened criminals. You're also correct with that if those are the factors that Scared warrior mentioned they are valid. It still comes to individual choice and having two parents helps solve of the problems mentioned before but I can't deny that we are in a shitty situation.
 
Some of you folks in this thread have come mighty close to getting slapped for the bickering and disruptive behavior that has popped up here and there. Luckily you've all managed to not go off the deep end with it (props to @Cpt Toellner for this post, everyone in General Chatting should follow his example of how to remain civil in the midst of a disagreement). This is your friendly reminder to keep things civil and calm, and that this thread is being monitored closely for shenanigans.
 
I don't believe in Political Parties and neither did the founding fathers. Also, no citizen should ever give up their liberties of any kind for safety of any kind. The founding fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw the country now.
Not a big fan of political parties either. Factions are not essential to democracy.
 
I think welfare for single moms should be cut somewhat to encourage the single mothers to marry men for finical support.

You're supposed to marry for love not money. Also depending on others for money never works out. I'm sorry but that argument sounds archaic.
 
Some of you folks in this thread have come mighty close to getting slapped for the bickering and disruptive behavior that has popped up here and there. Luckily you've all managed to not go off the deep end with it (props to @Cpt Toellner for this post, everyone in General Chatting should follow his example of how to remain civil in the midst of a disagreement). This is your friendly reminder to keep things civil and calm, and that this thread is being monitored closely for shenanigans.

We'll play nice! D:
 
The welfare system really needs to be reformed so that the right kind of people (children, elderly, disabled) are getting it instead of able-bodied people that can get work. As dickish as this might sound, I think welfare for single moms should be cut somewhat to encourage the single mothers to marry men for finical support.
Generally I support reforming the welfare system into a single payee system. That is, scrap the food stamps, scrap all the other middle man crap, and simply refund people their tax money a certain, basic amount per month. Never so much so as to buy everything they could want, but just enough to cover most of the basic essentials. At that point, the people who don't need it get an extra amount of money to invest into the economy however they'd like, and those that do need it can use it as as leg up so that even menial, part time labour can be sufficient to keep their head above water.

All while curtailing the bureaucratic fucking mess that is the current spattering of multiple overlapping welfare systems, and without forcing to someone to marry out of need instead of out of love. Then you have one system you can adjust for inflation or other needs with simple legislative means.
The large amounts of people getting imprisoned can almost be entirely blamed on the drug war and mandatory minimums. Since neo-cons declared a crusade against drug use, imprisonment has soared through the roof. The drug war has basically been a gigantic failure, and has resulted in millions of normal people who made one mistake in jail with gang members and hardened criminals. You're also correct with that if those are the factors that Scared warrior mentioned they are valid. It still comes to individual choice and having two parents helps solve of the problems mentioned before but I can't deny that we are in a shitty situation.
Agreed.
 
You're supposed to marry for love not money. Also depending on others for money never works out. I'm sorry but that argument sounds archaic.
Yeah that's why i said I would sound dickish.
 
You're supposed to marry for love not money. Also depending on others for money never works out. I'm sorry but that argument sounds archaic.
Sometimes money, or financial stability, or even the ability for the male to prove support for the female can be a basis for love. If a person really wants money that badly, then it is possible for them to love someone because that someone has money.
 
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