Shintaion: Resistance

1.45cm = .58Cal.

Still kinda large, but within the range of feasibility.

Also, I'll post either tonight or tomorrow.
 
I was requested to do this here...

This should give you all a better idea of Dark Beast's endurance, how much hits they can really take before dying. This is also for reference, I know some of these things we don't have at our disposals.

If I forgot anything major as far as weapons and means of attack we have, let me know.

Dark Beast Endurance: How many hits it takes to kill one on average.

Plasma weaponry: 3-5 shots, more effective than regular bullets.

Bullets: 4-6 shots, not very effective.

Explosives: Upwards of 6 hits with such weapons, explosions being fire based due little damage to them.

Melee armor weapons: 3-4 hits BUT varies depending on the type of weapon. If if a slicing type weapon for instance is allowed to cut a dark beast's neck, it can kill them in one.

Melee weapons: Weapons such as knives, throwing daggers, etc. 4-8 hits(Varies depending on effectiveness of weapon)

Unarmed combat: Fighting with bare fists/kicks. Very ineffective. 7-10 powerful hits.

Fire Energy: Resistant to fire, varies depending on the power of a technique but can take upwards of 8 hits.

Ice Energy: Resistant to ice, varies depending on the power of a technique but will take upwards of 8 hits.

Light Energy: The most apparent weakness for Dark Beasts, varies depending on the power of a technique, 3-4 hits.

Wind Energy: Neutral damage to dark beasts, varies depending on power of a technique but usually 5-7 hits.

Earth Energy: Neutral damage to dark beasts, varies depending on power of a technique but usually 5-7 hits.

Thunder Energy: Neutral damage to dark beasts, varies depending on power of a technique but usually 5-7 hits.

Water Energy: Neutral damage to dark beasts, varies depending on power of a technique but usually 5-7 hits.

Dark Energy: Resistant to dark energy, varies depending on the power of a technique but can take upwards of 7-8 hits. Because of this, friendly fire is NOT common to the dark beasts although it can happen.

Keep in mind energy is more versatile than bullets and thus is hard to rank in terms of damage. It depends on how sharp an energy weapon is made to be, how concentrated and powerful an energy beam might be or how big it is, etc. When I say hits for energy I mean uncharged attacks.

These DBs are by no means invincible but they will be tough, they couldn't take over Shintaion if they were push-overs or could only survive 1 hit from normal bullets. So generally, for the majority of people's weapons, it'll take 5 hits to kill the average dark beast. They're not meant to be weak cannon fodder is the point. But they can be taken down and you can kill them in your posts.

The resistances for Energy also apply to any sort of magic or any sort of weapons that might have elemental power.

Hope this helps. Will be inactive after this post for many hours though so be warned about that. If you have questions, it may be a while to get answers. But just use this for reference when making combat posts with DBs.

So you will probably need to reload your weapons at times and forbidden beast characters may run out of energy during the battle if they don't conserve it well. Energy for beasts is refilled by eating/resting so thus, not something you can do during the middle of a serious battle like this. Keep that in mind.
 
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Seriously? You stated earlier that average weapon caliber was 5cm. Sherman Tanks had 60mm main guns. Six 50mm rounds would do some impressive damage to two inch steel plate. Plasma weapons are double threat to boot - not only are you being hit with a rapidly fusing deuterium slug, the resultant plasmoid is so superheated the air ignites on contact.

Magical shielding I can buy. Numerical superiority I can buy. Blitzkrieg tactics make sense, even. But creatures that can take five rounds from a TWO INCH GUN!? We might as well just slit our throats and be done with it. It'd be less painful.


I mean, I can understand fudging reality a bit, but that's just fucking rediculous.
(Plasmoid = a physical state that demonstrates properties of both gas and solid, and universally a high-energy state of matter)
 
Piro must have said that. I didn't define what an average gun was. And it's a tad difficult to rank all the possible gun types and types of bullets that everyone has access to at the moment without knowledge of them.

Plasma can kill em in three hits. I think that's reasonable enough. Not like they'll even be hard to hit in this current situation and it's not like they're well spread out. Besides, if plasma killed them any easier, they wouldn't be much of a threat now would they? The majority of people here have plasma weapons after all. Seiji even has dual plasma machine guns on his Armour. Those will make killing em easier than it might sound as they're rapid fire weapons.

It's not just magical shielding, their endurance is unnaturally high. There's a reason the Resistance chooses to use Armours aganist them. DBs are comparable to tanks, I thought that was established. They're not like the zombies in all those games who die in one hit from just about anything.

If this is a serious issue and others think this way, speak up. I'd like to hear it so we can remedy this and get this straight ASAP.
 
I'm going to be as kind as I can be when I say this.

Please, Shut the Hell Up! honestly it isn't that hard to do a number/letter change. This all isn't permanent and it is just a story. There is a reason stories go through something called "The Editing Process."

There now that I blew off a little steam I can get down to business. First of all, the whole statistics were made because of Seiji's last post and relating it to what us veterans know of the Dark Beast. We know about the beasts and their endurance, their abilities, their strengths and weaknesses. The one thing I don't know about is military grade measurements. You wanna whine about how the thing is insane and not close to reality then send me something and stop bitching about how I don't know anything. I'd gladly take information rather than verbal abuse.

I deeply apologize if I upset or offended anyone.

Writing in the Moonlight,

~Pirogeth
 
I understand that they're tougher than your average being, but this isn't about endurance. The dark creatures you describe would have prompted a nuclear strike long ago from any government with a fleeting sense of self-preservation. (Before you say anything, if they can build plasma weapons, they can build nukes, because a plasma weapon fires, essentially, subcritical fusion reactors.) They're like something out of some hellish nightmare. A being physically on par with a main battle tank is just...not worth thinking about.

On the other hand, Highly capable, slightly tougher beings using high-powered magic, numerical superiority, and effective tactics as force multipliers provide a highly credible threat without being utterly rediculous.

A good example: Dark Beasts using a phalanx and shield magics would conceivably be able to weather concentrated fire from an Armour squad. Magical "body armour" would also be feasible, if somewhat contrived. As to the matter of autofire plasma weaponry, a weapon that big isn't gonna be particularly fast-tracking.
 
<_< This isn't suppose to be realistic dude. For real. If we had the ability to build nukes, it'd kill all the fun and there wouldn't be an RP.

Let me compare that to something to prove my point. Megaman's universe has plasma. Why doesn't he just have the military and nuke Willy and all the robots instead of fighting them himself? BECAUSE THERE WOULD NO NO GAME! It ruins the fun! It'd be like if Godzilla died from a nuke, there'd be no series, no challenge, no adversity! No point if we just nuke all the big bad Dark Beasts and the RP ends! Realism does not go together well with fictional work, it usually ruins it or defeats the point.

What if we applied reality to Majora's Mask? The moon moving to crash into the planet causes disasters with the tides and all that. There is no game since you'd die IRL before the moon even hit most likely. The game was awesome, if it applied reality though, it'd suck since you wouldn't even have three days or maybe they wouldn't have even made it.

Reality KILLS the fun or point of things. This is why all these works of fictional ignore some of these aspects, so we can have a story. If you're gonna nitpick at things being unrealistic in a story with elves, demons and stuff, weapon shots or the nonexistence nukes should be the last things you criticize.

How would the dark beasts have taken over Shintaion if they couldn't take hits like that? They couldn't have. We have to take this creative liberty, it'd just be too easy if it's one plasma shot or two bullets is all it takes.

Eh but even if we had nukes, using them on Shintaion? BADDDDD idea. Especially since we want to reclaim the land, nuking it would just create more problems and possibly bring it into even further ruin.

This is a fantasy, sci-fi. Nowhere does it say modern or realistic. But really, 5 hits is the breaking point? 5 hits? Dude, I'd understand this reaction and ranting if it was like 10 or 20 or something insane that is near boss level, but 5 is perfectly reasonable.

I'm no expert with guns but take Borderlands for instance, a game that has a crapload of guns, that game it's easy to get 5 shots off and hit a target unless you're using a pitifully slow weapon. 5 shots is nothing dude. Bosses in that game? They take like 40 good shots to kill and some of them are just humans early on! That is far more absurd than this but the game is still fun since we don't go around trying to pick at it and complain if it's unreal and stop playing it.

And if 5 shots is an issue? Just use your plasma weapons as you have some with your Armour, only 3 hits to kill minimum with those! If you think 3 is not reasonable then...There's just no pleasing you on this if 3 is something that you think is too much. 5 isn't even bad. Some people have machine guns and rapid fire weapons that can unload 5 shots like nothing. And if they don't, most of them have plasma weapons. Some have energy they can use as well.

Heck, if 5 shots is an issue, reload. It's not like you only have 5 bullets per gun and then you're doomed! These Dark Beasts are tough but not nearly as invincible as you're making them sound.

The only experience I've had with plasma weapons is usually in mech based games or from the Metroid Prime Series. The Plasma beam might kill things one hit if fully charged and hit twice, uncharged it still takes more than 5 hits to kill the organic enemies like the Space Pirates. This is on NORMAL mode keep in mind, they're not badasses or anything but they can take a few plasma hits before dying and they are grunts at best. I don't see anyone trying to take apart that series because Plasma is possibly underpowered.

I don't want to get angry about this but dude, you're being a bit unreasonable here, you gotta understand that. If plasma weaponry was made to be so effective aganist these beasts, would there really be an RP? No. It breaks the RP if plasma weapons just own these beasts so easily. 3-5 is a balanced number compared to 1-2 hits. I'd understand complaining if you had a real slow plasma weapon but it shouldn't even be hard to land 3 hits, not even worth starting a mess like this over.

Perhaps Piro lost his cool, but I can see why. If plasma weapons just kill these things in one or two hits, how is there going to be challenge? How is there going to be a struggle? How could it be even possible the Shintaion military fell to them if plasma weapons were so effective? It could not be so. If we complain about every little thing that we think is unrealistic or illogical, it kills the fun. If you want to do that kinda stuff dude, become a movie or game critic.

The point is we're a Resistance that's down on our luck. We're suppose to fight hard fought battles that we barley win, not just own the beasts and pose epically and drop one liners while spamming plasma weapons.
 
Congratulations, you missed the point. I'm bowing out. Deuces.
 
It's hard to tell one's point when one is rather confrontational. But ah well, guess we can't change your mind.

Even if you thought it was too much power wise for them to survive a few plasma hits, we are fighting these things as a brigade. They're super overpowered as they might sound. And if our plasma weapons were that much more effective, we'd be the broken ones. This is balance or as close we can get, 3 hits is nothing.

5 hits with guns is nothing either. This is better this way anyhow, it requires more strategy and provokes more thought than just plasma weapon spamming. besides, how far would that be to the players of other races without such weapons if plasma weapons just dominated the dark beasts? Not very fair. We have to keep that in mind as well.

If we try to apply real life-physics/laws to everything, it will just ruin the fun. Fun is the point of an RP or a video game, not to abide by all the laws of reality. If we did that, nothing would be amusing, there would be no mechs as nothing that heavy could stand in real life without falling apart, no fictional creatures, no time travel, etc. This is a sci-fi fantasy RP. I must restate that.

You also have to keep in mind the dark beasts are resistant to heat based weapons/attacks, I mentioned they resist fire energy. This added resistance is what allows them to take more plasma hits than other life forms. Lava cannot not kill them, then of course they can survive a few plasma shots. Perhaps their resistance to extreme cold and extreme heat temperatures like they see in their home world. I should mentioned in their description but I was trying to keep that short.

Lastly, I also saw all of the stuff said in the c-box. Apparently we haven't given the players enough information? What do you need? We'll be glad to help if you just tell us. Please ask us instead of just talking about some information not being provided in the c-box, ok? That's what GMs are here for. Just be polite and non confrontational about it and we'll be good.

We're sorry, both me and Piro got frustrated here. But it happens when people address things in an inappropriate way and make a scene.
 
Yes, I do apologize for flipping out, and both you and Weavel raise good points.

First of all, the Dark Beasts might need a little more than "Tough Skin" to defend against the whole weaponry thing. I'm thinking more than likely the whole energy shield bit. As far as the whole balance thing goes, Weavel has the jist of that. We need these things to be balanced out to compete with Player Characters and their "awesome techniques."

Hate to lose you Ric, but like we do with any other character left behind we shall take the old tradition of carrying them to the end or whisking them under the plot carpet.

On a final note, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ASK US FOR INFORMATION! I cannot stress that enough. If you don't ask and just talking about it in the cbox that gets us all nowhere. If you do ask we are sure to answer your question in the best way possible. If you have multiple questions that can't be answered in one PM tell us to get on an IM system and we'll meet with you there. We keep no secrets do understand that.
 
I think of it this way:

While the Dark Beasts may be mostly humanoid, they are NOT to be considered simply so. Physically, they exist as both biological and magical creatures-- they have organs and blood, they breath and use the toilet. But they also have that substance known as 'Magic' coursing through them which allow their fancy abilities, and elevates them to a state of being beyond that which we understand.

Yes, they have 'tougher skin.' But why? Okay, they may biologically just have more durable skin. But magically speaking, the energy of the earth courses through them and gives them that 'extra' edge that makes them so incredibly resilient. Should the skin be penetrated, and what may serve as a liver get obliterated, the energy of the waters and of light keep them going and fighting and maybe keep them alive long enough to get to what serves as a medic for them.

Perhaps they have something in their brain or an organ in their abdomen that generates a magical energy field that absorbs the damage plasma-state weaponry can generate? Who knows.

We just can't think of them along the same terms that we think of ourselves. Am I too off the mark here, fellows?


As far as weaponry is concerned, I tend to agree with Ric. For example, some of these numbers are just beyond feasibility (as far as small arms are concerned), even if you say that there is some kind of recoil dampening technology to help compensate. As far as the damage they do to the Dark Beasts, well, see above.

You see, the problem with using guns and any other technological base is that we UNDERSTAND how it works, to a degree, at least. It's not beyond human comprehension to envision 'mechs.' After all, they're more-or-less walking tanks, yeah? We all have an idea of how they could work, so we tend to apply our own logic at times, especially when there are no 1-2-3 ground rules for us to stand by.


But at any rate, all of these points are moot. The game is what it is, and fortunately enough, I'm one of those people that can suspend disbelief fairly easily. I tend to fill the gaps in for myself, and in places where I can't, or in places where something just doesn't make sense, well... my version of what happens becomes canon.


Not trying to fuel any fires, just trying to explain away a few things here and smooth things over a bit, if I can. I understand Ric's perspective. Maybe he can see things from my angle, and maybe I can help you guys understand his a bit better.
 
I see. Honestly though, those numbers weren't things we have to strictly follow. Like Piro said in the c-box earlier, fights should be good as long as they are well written and reasonable. That should be the bottom line for now, so don't stress about the chart.

Why not worry too much following it? Since it is far too hard to really rank every single type of weapon, attack, and take into account recoil, the range, the speed, the effect it might have on at target, what area it hit, etc, the chart would be endless. I can't cover everything on there. Stats can't work in an RPG where it's not based on dice or stats. :P Also gotta keep into account balance, that's the problem with stat based things.

So instead of following the chart religiously, just be reasonable with how much damage your weapons/attacks can do. As long as you understand the DBs aren't cannon fodder and won't die easily, you should be good. That is the gist of it. We'll tell ya if something is like, too much. That's just the best way to handle combat.
 
I saw no need to talk within this debate as I could see it was being taken care of. However! On the up side I did find a real life mech that you can buy! NOt saying that it's any good but whatever. STILL COOL.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4004/
 
Lol, that mech kinda reminds me something out of Star Wars.

Hmm so anyone planning to post? Standstills FTL. I know Piro will make his post sometime soonish but would be nice to hear from some others who aren't in the battle quite yet.
 
Well I was going to wait until one more person did, but I guess I can just wanted to space out my posts. Though I admit I do like watching your characters sit in trouble for days XD. I know I'm a jerk. If there is so no more activity in like 5 hours or so I'll make a post.
 
I hate to do this, especially after what just happened with Ric. I was really excited about this game too. But I'm going to need to drop out as well. Reason being: About a billion things in my life just exploded at once. I'm going to take time away from Iwaku and other social websites until I can reassess my priorities. Hopefully I'll figure things out quickly, but only time will tell. Again, sorry and good luck.
 
I see. Oh well, we understand dude, it happens in life. Hope things go well for ya.

Oh and as for my next post, tomorrow or Friday. Just gotta see if I get good rest tomorrow.

Most likely will be tomorrow though. We gotta pick up the pace with posting.

Where'd some of the others vanish off to? Would be nice to see some of em aside from just us four last posters.
 
Well Sakura just needed a bit of help with her post. Hopefully some advice I gave to her will help her along with that.
 
Yup <3 Sank yuu Pirooniichan <3
I'm going to pick a type of nanites and add it to my character OR a new weapon & have my post up by tomorrow morning :)
Sorry for the trouble :33
 
No worries, that's good to know.

Anyhow my post is up. Sorry if the end gets a little rough, ran out of inspiration rather quickly for that post. Ah well...
 
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