MAFIA - DAY TIME

[Kiilgore]

That leaves three (?) mafia.

'll confirm that there are TWO mafia and ONE escort, as stated in the other thread

The god of this ingame-story universe thing said it himself. (He also mentioned the no changed roles thing, so unless he's pulling our leg.... Then yeah. Safe to say that there are two mafia.)

I can't recall if anyone else can reveal or not

No, I don't think so. But there is claiming. But be wary of fake claims...
--

Anyway, interesting that you noted The Tragedy hasn't actually called for any lynches, Kiilgore. That's a mafia tactic...

In case you are saying that what I was doing is a mafia tactic, (instead of the tragedy hiding.) (Not sure which you ment....)

Dipper thought of it,

We need to check who's still alive in the game. For all we know, our mafia could have been silent on the matter of lynching entirely to avoid drawing attention

So I quickly investigated the votes and was just sharing what I found.
--

as someone who was so 'certain' that Dipper was mafia

I don't think he used the word certain or variations of it tbf. Just suspected the two of us. Doesn't change that he had that sudden turn to suspecting me, supposedly for following my leads and nominating who was revealed to be the mayor though...

I'd like to hear tragedy's side of things before we super go after him though.
As for luckycoolhawk... Well, there still is an unanswered question from me to him. (About the point that seemed like he was calling suspicion on me because of suspecting the (at the time) unrevealed Mayor.)

@The Tragedy thoughts on the recent developments?

 

[Vitreus]

In case you are saying that what I was doing is a mafia tactic, (instead of the tragedy hiding.) (Not sure which you ment....)

No, I meant The Tragedy's actions were common of mafia, not yours. Although do note that he hasn't been contributing towards mislynches, whether out of certainty that everyone else would take care of it for him, or with pure intentions of abstaining in the absence of certainty, I'm not sure.

I don't think he used the word certain or variations of it tbf. Just suspected the two of us. Doesn't change that he had that sudden turn to suspecting me, supposedly for following my leads and nominating who was revealed to be the mayor though...

I'm sorry, I should have clarified; I meant I was mostly 'certain' of Dipper being mafia, which he was not. Except everyone else also seemed rather convinced, and Hawk wasn't strongly objecting in the least, having also voted. But to suddenly be so quick in pointing a finger at you following what was a collective effort at a shortly-avoided mislynch, an iffy suggestion which could thus very well result in yet another mislynch (something no town member at this point of the game would desire... you would think we would be less aggressive in our choices given such a close call), was unsettling, especially since you quoted his earlier comment,

"... I am debating if we should even nominate anyone."

...which highly contradicts his later actions, given circumstances where he has a high chance of nomination and it would suit him to direct the attention elsewhere as if he's able to mislynch one other person (Dipper would've been the perfect selection for him, that's why he made no initial complaint, except he never would have anticipated him confirming his role as the mayor so it's now in his best interest to act as though he cared otherwise), then he (and the other mafia, be it The Tragedy, or Starlighter (or you, if this was thought through deeply enough)) would win the game.

At this point though I'm kinda running my head in circles and want to make excuses for him too but if I do that... I won't know who to vote. I currently have suspicions regarding everyone save for Dipper, but Hawk's my best bet.

 

[Dipper]

Hawk's actions do seem contradictory, now that I've gone through the thread. Seemed very uninterested in lynching we started bringing up everybody as suspect, and when you all jumped on the bandwagon to lynch me, he joined in. Divert attention. That's what he accomplished. Until I revealed.

So we've got one possibility. Tragedy is another possibility, but I'm not completely on board with that one. Not completely active, yes, but we've learned not to lynch based on activity. Behavior? A possibility. If there are two mafia left, we have some good chances. I can't know for sure who else is in my faction, but my faction knows I'm in theirs. Based on that, you guys might have more luck narrowing it down.

 

[LuckycoolHawk9]

To be fair, I honestly didn't want to lynch anyone. I only lynched our first bet because he was indeed lurky and he didn't even respond to my discord messages which made me suspect me. Simiarily, I assumed that since there were no kills on day 2 that a mafia was inactive which led me to nominate tigertruth. I mention that I suspected Dipper and Kiilgore, but at no point did I nominate him for lynching unlike others here. The fact that @Kiilgore is deflecting on me is due to the fact that I suspected that they knew something about Dipper ( assuming he was mafia and they were fellow). I also personally haven't wanted to talk since @Kiilgore mentioned that actives members have been killed- except I wasn't. That was because I was quiet about my opinion and was debating if it was worth my normal townie life.

So, with that long speech, I am going to abstain from nominating for now. If you lynch me due to my contrary actions, I will not blame you and take it. That being said, @Dipper if I am proven to be innocent, I hope our doctor is still alive to save you. .. I really don't want to see the town lose.

 

[Dipper]

So, with that long speech, I am going to abstain from nominating for now. If you lynch me due to my contrary actions, I will not blame you and take it. That being said, @Dipper if I am proven to be innocent, I hope our doctor is still alive to save you. .. I really don't want to see the town lose.

Sounds like you're trying to hint at something right here. That may pay off.

This is all incredibly difficult. Everyone we potentially nominate seems surprised at the notion of them being chosen. We could very well be wrong about all of this. It's all just tricks. Our mafia are hiding in plain sight.

In fact, it might even be somebody taking part in these discussions right now. Very likely, in fact. I want to say Tragedy until they give me a reason not to believe they're mafia. My suspicions aren't concrete but with each response to this thread, my views are changing and the decision is becoming more complicated.

I really hope we still have a doctor.

 

[Vitreus]

In fact, it might even be somebody taking part in these discussions right now. Very likely, in fact. I want to say Tragedy until they give me a reason not to believe they're mafia. My suspicions aren't concrete but with each response to this thread, my views are changing and the decision is becoming more complicated.

I second this notion... The only thing I find some solace in is that there's a 0.5 chance of being right in making a lynch. Although the more defenses put forth, the more unsure I become. Sourcing indisputable contradictions in the behavior of our players to use as evidence is proving increasingly tougher. What Hawk says seems legitimate in its own right... I'll leave this up to Kiilgore or Starlighter then, in the case they want to dispute what he's said.

In analysing the current relationships of those here however, this is what I understand...

- Starlighter strongly suspects The Tragedy. Also suspected Hawk.
- Kiilgore strongly suspects Hawk.

If I am to go by my non-friction rule, the mafia team would either be Starlighter/Kiilgore, or Hawk/The Tragedy.
And either one of them seem pretty legit, in my opinion, given that Starlighter and Kiilgore have not at any one point suspected one another (at least from what I remember). Hawk and Tragedy also haven't seemed to really have had at each other at any point, although do prove me wrong if I am.

 

[Kiilgore]

To be fair, I honestly didn't want to lynch anyone. I only lynched our first bet because he was indeed lurky and he didn't even respond to my discord messages which made me suspect me. Simiarily, I assumed that since there were no kills on day 2 that a mafia was inactive which led me to nominate tigertruth.

For the day one, fair enough, but there was a kill on day two. Joan. You were also 'im debating if we should nominate someone today' on day two.

The fact that @Kiilgore is deflecting on me is due to the fact that I suspected that they knew something about Dipper ( assuming he was mafia and they were fellow).

Well, for a moment, let's assume I am mafia. If I knew something about dipper that would want me to get rid of him, wouldn't I have just done it (or tried to at least) in the night phase?
Or what do you mean by the 'they were fellow'

@Dipper Well, we can't wait too long on a second nomination. Since you are our only one, if we don't have an alternative... You'll be lynched by default.

If I am to go by my non-friction rule, the mafia team would either be Starlighter/Kiilgore, or Hawk/The Tragedy.
And either one of them seem pretty legit, in my opinion, given that Starlighter and Kiilgore have not at any one point suspected one another (at least from what I remember). Hawk and Tragedy also haven't seemed to really have had at each other at any point, although do prove me wrong if I am.

Yeah.... I will admit that. However, other than the two things I called star out on, nothing's striked me as odd.
(Those two things were using tragedy's title as an argument and the vagueness of the 'I suspect everyone' both were back on page 5 for me.)

With luckycoolhawk's points.... They seem a bit confusing to me. Particularly the parts I pointed out.

 

[Dipper]

I guess it's between Hawk and Tragedy, then? In terms of who to lynch, that is. There's a high chance that we get at least one, but even that's not 100%.

 

[The Tragedy]

Man i really hope we still have a doctor if anything as well, cause if they can manage to protect someone from the mafia we might not end up losing
Besides that, losing dipper as a possible nominee, really throws my options all over the place, but now i've just noticed a pattern, this might just be the human's pattern seeking brain, but from the last two days @Killgore and @Starlighter have been leading the lynching of innocents, now this could just as easily be a mistake, as we jumped onto that bandwagon easily but still... makes you think a bit..

 

[Kiilgore]

but from the last two days @Killgore and @Starlighter have been leading the lynching of innocents, now this could just as easily be a mistake, as we jumped onto that bandwagon easily but still... makes you think a bit..

(two 'i's one l btw.)
I can't speak for star, but how did I lead the lynching of innocents? The only lynch that I really lead was the attempt on Dipper, which dipper says that he understood the suspicions on him prior to his reveal. (as evidented by: Me being the first one to bring up the suspicion on dipper (for the me being the leader) and what dipper said here: )

People had their suspicions for me due to my relatively inactivity, and I get that.

I didn't even join in on the tigertruth lynch, uncertain because it was evident that at least one mafia was active. You, LCH and I were the ones that didn't participate in that, IIRC.

if you are also talking about the thatguyinthestore, I was just being the executor of the only lead at the time and Luckycoolhawk's idea of lynching an inactive.

So our only real lead is towards the inactives currently?

And yep, that's our only lead.

I mean- I guess we can nominate one of the Afks.

Yeah.... Might as well follow our lead that we have...
nominate: @thatguyinthestore

XD. I am going to go with @Kilgore.

I second @thatguyinthestore

Is there anything that I missed....? I don't really think so, but I could have missed something.

also, I asked you this earlier, but you didn't answer really. (if you did it was vague. And seemed to skip over parts to me.)

@The Tragedy thoughts on the recent developments?

 

[The Tragedy]

@Kiilgore i only suspect you two due to the fact of running out of options, i would gladly not nominate anyone but we don't have the days left to do that, any mistake can lead this to be our last day.
As for the recent developments... i wasn't certain of anything, Dipper was just the most suspicious in my mind at the time, but with now new evidence our options have slimmed down

 

[Vitreus]

Gonna be frank. I don't think its The Tragedy. Because he never initiated or even contributed to a mislynch (save for Dipper I believe), I can't perceive him as being mafia in that sense. Not like he's been so inactive not to contribute, he just never did.
And if he's not mafia, I don't think Hawk is according to my rule.
And The Tragedy's right, the ones leading the lynches have been Kiilgore and Starlighter all along. I find it rather interesting how Starlighter is so quiet at a time like this, its got my alarm bells ringing. And in hindsight... as indecisive as I may be (clearly)... I'm thinking this is the gorgeously disguised work of Kiilgore and Starlighter.

 

[LuckycoolHawk9]

Or what do you mean by the 'they were fellow'

Fellow mafia. They were fellow- the same.

Since you are our only one, if we don't have an alternative... You'll be lynched by default.

That seems surpsingly mafiaish to say. If we have no choice, we are still going to lynch our KNOWN mayor. I mean, before you had the excuse of not knowing- but can I ask your logic behind it now?

 

[Kiilgore]

@Kiilgore i only suspect you two due to the fact of running out of options, i would gladly not nominate anyone but we don't have the days left to do that, any mistake can lead this to be our last day.
As for the recent developments... i wasn't certain of anything, Dipper was just the most suspicious in my mind at the time, but with now new evidence our options have slimmed down

SO you are also admitting to no proof to the leading lynches...?
So, you have nothing to say about LCH's seeming argument of 'you suspected the mayor before the reveal'?
okay then... Sure.

leading the lynches have been Kiilgore and Starlighter all along.

as I said to the tragedy, proof?

The only lynch attempt that I led was on Dipper.
I was doing LCH's idea (he was the one that suggested lynching an inactive for the first day phase.)
I didn't join in on the second lynch. I was one of the few that was uncertain about it.

That seems surpsingly mafiaish to say. If we have no choice, we are still going to lynch our KNOWN mayor. I mean, before you had the excuse of not knowing- but can I ask your logic behind it now?

My intention was reminding him that he shouldn't be waiting too long for what he was waiting for from tragedy. (After all. Less than a full day left.)

It was to my understanding that once someone is nominated, they are up for vote for the rest of that day phase. Meaning that they can't be taken down from the vote. Given that both Thatguyinthestore and tigertruth were autolynched when they were the only nomination, if nobody else goes up, then putting two and two together, our mayor would be autolynched.

 

[Dipper]

In my eyes, everyone's suspicious. I want to go with Tragedy, but if it's wrong and we don't have a doctor, we lose. I don't honestly know where to go from here.

 

[Vitreus]

It was to my understanding that once someone is nominated, they are up for vote for the rest of that day phase. Meaning that they can't be taken down from the vote. Given that both Thatguyinthestore and tigertruth were autolynched when they were the only nomination, if nobody else goes up, then putting two and two together, our mayor would be autolynched.

Are you also indicating that we can't change our votes? I would think otherwise following a reveal.

The only lynch attempt that I led was on Dipper.
I was doing LCH's idea (he was the one that suggested lynching an inactive for the first day phase.)
I didn't join in on the second lynch. I was one of the few that was uncertain about it.

Well...

So our only real lead is towards the inactives currently?

You were the one to suggest it, actually. And then...

I mean- I guess we can nominate one of the Afks.

He agreed with you. And then you, my friend:

Yeah.... Might as well follow our lead that we have...
nominate: @thatguyinthestore

And then it was /you/ who continued with the notion of inactives:

So the only one who has yet to post at all is @tigertruth

One thing that I sort of noticed was that @Dipper @Solaresque and @The Tragedy seemed to be 'lurky' so to say.

You were not necessarily opposed to the second lynch, the way Hawk indicated he was. Dipper initiated it, and a good few of us followed (admittedly I, in having not voted the day before since I hadn't been keeping an eye on the thread, was more eager to act). Starlighter followed in on that one, close to the beginning, and if she were your partner, and given such a heavy bandwagon in the first place, there was no need for you to join in. And you let it happen, saying:

it's a bit understandable why there is suspicion on him. (the apparent inactivity on the thread.)

And then by this day, you were the first to point out Dipper:

In all honesty, I have some suspicions about Dipper....

Further comments:

@Starlighter
I was just trying to say that so far we've only based our evidence on the fact someone's been inactive, which hasn't been working, so how about we take a step back and really try to analyze it?

Speaking for Star...? :

So. With that consensus (practically is one. Even though if star has yet to reply, unless her earlier opinion on dipper changed, I don't see her objecting.) reached...

And Hawk's comment concerning 'lynching the Mayor' was suspicious enough, but he DID say he suspected both you and Dipper beforehand. His suspicions were not sudden or unfounded then, simply aggravated.

And this, from what I understand:

Lynch 1 - Kiilgore (initiated), Hawk (Starlighter neutral, The Tragedy neutral, I was neutral)
Lynch 2 - Starlighter (followed Dipper), me (Hawk opposed, Kiilgore neutral, The Tragedy neutral)
Attempted Lynch 3 - Kiilgore (initiated), me, Hawk, The Tragedy, Starlighter

The Tragedy is absent from voting save for the failed lynch, so I don't believe he is liable to being mafia, not that there isn't a possibility, but he hardly made any such suggestion or showed any negative intent. I therefore believe the chances of him being mafia are low. And the next best bet is you, Kiilgore, unless my mind is playing up on me at this point.

 

[Vitreus]

Oh, and talk about 'lurking' ...

Starlighter was last seen:55m ago

Where's Starlighter at, and why no contributions considering our impending doom? xD

 

[Dipper]

Fishy. I think I'll make a sweep through all our threads to see what everyone's said in the past. Not that that'll prove anything, but it might give me an idea.

 

[Kiilgore]

Are you also indicating that we can't change our votes? I would think otherwise following a reveal.

Not what I'm saying.
The nominations happen. Then once the discussion segment is over, then the voting happens. So we haven't even voted yet.

Speaking for Star...? :

Nice extrapolation to a different moment. I was talking about for that particular thing that I was replying to.

You were the one to suggest it, actually. And then...

Was checking to be sure there were no other leads before we went for something.

To which Joan said no other leads.

point out Dipper:

Which I already conceded to.

The Tragedy is absent from voting save for the failed lynch, so I don't believe he is liable to being mafia,

On a Lynch that if was on a townie would essentially be game over for town, no less. So by staying out of the spotlight, and doing it on a day phase that we are essentially in mylo....
Just another angle to take a look at.

In addition... If you look at what you said earlier...

I think it's important to also consider relationships between players in general. Mafia tend to either associate with one another, defending each other's views, defending one another from suspicion and following in on their mislynches, or disassociate completely (followed by betrayal or a general lack of care if suspicions are directed at one mafia,

From what I've seen, would point towards a you and the tragedy team. Seen no friction between you two. Only agreeing and you defending him.

 

[The Tragedy]

@Kiilgore
We could say the same about you and @Starlighter as both of your ideas for tactics and suspects have been roughly the same with little to if not no disagreements