K
Kestrel
Guest
I actually like reading this thread for perspective. Not dumb arguments. You see, I do like to learn. Please don't poison the well. *insert debate-tag reference*
I was trying to think of a way to put it, but you put it rather nicely.I actually like reading this thread for perspective. Not dumb arguments. You see, I do like to learn. Please don't poison the well. *insert debate-tag reference*
Your value function can exist on its own merits without being disparaging
Herr Ubermensch-Utilitarian.
It's also more compact. You, however, have not answer my question about whether you dislike of anything with a high markup, or it just happens to be jewelry, which carries a value proposition you don't seem capable of understanding.
Don't use sjw speak to deflect your inability to understand other people's utility functions.
Here's my problem: the basic point of this topic is that the sale price of jewelry, particularly diamond engagement rings, is marked up way beyond what most people in this thread perceive it's value for. This means that most of you don't consider this particular item worth your money, in fact it's way below what you think it is worth.
So I'm here to understand why.
Is it unethical business practice? Can't be, because you can source ethical, expensive jewelry.
So you simply don't believe it is worth it. But here the level of dismissal is strange because:
- Did a brand ever sway your decision? Made in America?
- Have you ever purchased something that costed more than goods + labour? In other words, did you attach an intangible value to it?
- Did you ever pay for design? Or aesthetics?
If so, it would be a bit ... ironic, to say someone was tricked by clever advertising into valuing and wanting an engagement ring, because then you would be just as capable of attaching more value to a good than how much it costed to produce. It's like you believe your viewpoint is somehow objectively correct, because reading through this thread words like overrated, silly, and stupid kept leaping out of the page.
When I was shopping for a ring for my fiancee, most of her friends told her that it needed to be $5k+. She just wanted something nice, something of quality. I checked for alternative gemstones and went online to poke around. If symbolism constitutes the bulk of a ring (and symbolism is free), then I certainly spent way more than free. I'd say the money I spent on my ring was worth it.
(That certainly doesn't make her materialistic. Ouch, that was dismissive!)
@unanun, stop being dense. Some people don't place much value in aesthetics, and that's what the high price of jewelry pays for: something pretty. The talk about bullshit nonsense in pricing was largely directed at diamonds because diamond prices have been absolutely and without a doubt jacked up by shady business practices, but the general anti-jewelry sentiment is about paying lots of money for something that just looks nice and serves no other purpose. One can be very much against the diamond racket for ethical reasons and also dislike the general high price of jewelry for other reasons. People are complicated creatures like that.
@Dervish the De Beers antitrust litigation just allowed others to get in on the nonsense and profit from the way they rigged the market. Diamond prices have remained pretty stagnant, adjusting for inflation, since the mid 80s.
When I was shopping for a ring for my fiancee, most of her friends told her that it needed to be $5k+. She just wanted something nice, something of quality. I checked for alternative gemstones and went online to poke around. If symbolism constitutes the bulk of a ring (and symbolism is free), then I certainly spent way more than free. I'd say the money I spent on my ring was worth it.
(That certainly doesn't make her materialistic. Ouch, that was dismissive!)
This guy gets it.
Now, on-topic, because this shit has gone on long enough. Should I ever be talked into a marriage or similar ceremony, I will most likely do what I do for birthdays of a partner; make something with my own hands. If that turns out to be jewellery, here's what I'd do. I know a guy who knows a guy, who can meld silver. So what I'd probably do is, after some research, get a sketchbook and start trying to visualise something personal and symbolic to our relationship. Have some very mysterious phonecalls and meet-ups with people close to us to ask for feedback. Adjust the design accordingly. Turn it into a 3d model. Print that (for which I also know a guy). Pour the silver in it. Make it a necklace or bracelet (because you can get more creative with the shape without it being a fucking hassle like a ring would be to make) and offer that. It might not be as expensive in monetary values, but I feel my own work and creativity outweighs that cost if it's meant to symbolise how much a person means to you.
There. Something constructive to the thread.
I'm of the opinion that a ring should represent the couple or the half of the couple that will wear it. I could see myself wearing a simple stained band with some nice carvings. I'm not all about fancy rings or super expensive shit, just a nice personal service somewhere in nature and a reception more like a family BBQ (though minus a lot of actual BBQ because that shit is gross).
just a nice personal service somewhere in nature and a reception more like a family BBQ (though minus a lot of actual BBQ because that shit is gross).
(though minus a lot of actual BBQ because that shit is gross).
that shit is gross).
that shit is gross).
NO COME BACK.I had an opinion, then a shitstorm came...
I feel like I'm just going to stay inside, drink a bit and play cardgames in candle light until the storm passes and my power comes back on. :/
You're living proof that advertising and marketing work and are very effective, that's all. :D
Jorrick replies:You know, just because you don't understand why girls like jewelry, doesn't mean they've been manipulated by BF Skinner's descendants ...
~Jewelry is one thing, paying big bucks for a relatively common stone that is ridiculously overpriced due to extremely shady supply control and deceptive marketing is another. Nobody has said anything about having a problem with women liking jewelry, just the extremely high prices, especially as it concerns diamonds. This isn't at all an attack on women, and in reality men are just as susceptible to the manipulative business and marketing practices around diamonds (see ads aimed at men about how diamonds show a woman that you care because "diamonds are forever"), so rein in the social justice horse there pal. :P
Okay, I understand where you're coming from now.Some people don't place much value in aesthetics, and that's what the high price of jewelry pays for: something pretty.
You can't silence me! Death to BBQ! Its only saving grace is baked beans and side dishes! Death to BBQ! Death to BBQ!>:[ GET OUT.
COME OVER HERE AND GET SOME MOTHERFUCKIN' RIBS. I'LL TEACH YOU THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS.You can't silence me! Death to BBQ! Its only saving grace is baked beans and side dishes! Death to BBQ! Death to BBQ!
So I wanted to reiterate the problem people have. I certainly did not intend to come across as making it sound like people who don't care/ still want to do the traditional diamond thing are wrong, because that would defeat the point of having a discussion in the first place. All I wanted to convey with my reply to you was the diamond industry was a bit different than say the automotive industry where some people want to buy an aircraft carrier-priced Ferrari with human-leather seats and wooly mammoth carpets that's assembled in the most prestigious sentient science fiction factory and all of the workers have to wear tuxedos to work with fine white gloves as opposed to an affordable Soviet-made GAZ Volga that was assembled in 40 minutes by underpaid and disgruntled workers who may or may not have hid body parts under the floor board when the bored shift supervisor was looking at some contraband Penthouse magazine that was smuggled in by his buddy Oleg, who is a member of the Politburo and can get his hands on Western contraband.Here's my problem: the basic point of this topic is that the sale price of jewelry, particularly diamond engagement rings, is marked up way beyond what most people in this thread perceive it's value for. This means that most of you don't consider this particular item worth your money, in fact it's way below what you think it is worth.
So I'm here to understand why.