#BoycottBeyonce

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I think part of the issue here is that nobody knows jack about the Black Panther Party's history, unless they've bothered to research it themselves.

Who learned about that in school? Anyone? Bueller?
 
AHAHAHA THE SAME U.S. HIGH SCHOOL TEXTBOOKS THAT CALLED THE PHILIPPINE-AMERICAN WAR AN "INSURRECTION"?

THAT'S THE WHOLE ENTIRE REASON I LINK SHIT AS IS, I CAME ACROSS THEM BECAUSE THAT'S THE SHIT I LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT

PRESENT SHIT WITHOUT COMMENTARY BECAUSE GOSH DIDDLY DARN, Y'ALL, I WOULDN'T WANNA IMPEDE THE EVOLUTION OF ANYONE'S OPINION ON SHIT JUST BY SOUNDING LIKE I REALLY KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, IT'S, LIKE, toTES mcGOats moar fun 2 form ur own openions by readng stuff n lyKe U kNo thikn abotu it rly rly rlllllly hard ~*~fer ur ownself~*~ cuZ den iz lyke u g0t 2 ur own conclusions & not cuz lyke some1 else made there stance sound soop4r g000d

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I don't remember reading about the BPP in my history classes either, but it hurts to read that other people here thought the New Black Panther Party was THE Black Panther Party.

I guess Bobby Seale, Fred Hampton and Malcolm X aren't as marketable as MLK for "mainstream" america.

As for Beyonce's performance, all I noticed was a great performance. Hasn't she always had a few "black" songs here and there? Did Destiny's Child just get erased from the internet or something?
 
Torsty said:
Can you not see the MASSIVE difference in the context of which the Black Panther Party fought for their cause, as compared to the KKK or the Nazies?
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Not really. Black Panthers were not about peace, and they were not about equality between whites and blacks. How is a black person walking around saying 'Black Power' not the same? If I'm white and walking around saying 'White Power', I am a racist. If you're black, and you're walking aroun saying 'Black Power' it's the same damn thing.

What pisses me off about the whole 'Black Lives Matter' movement is that they're failing to point out one major fact; black on black crime is a thing! You see it on the news every day. Don't sit and publicize Black Lives Matter without focusing on the other factors. You can't blame every single black death on white people and the police, because that is just not the case.

All lives should matter, not just black and white. Murder and violence against any group, between any group should not be accepted. The whole reason there is so much racial tension is because groups like Black Lives Matter are helping to create it. You don't see them working along side white people to try and defuse the tension, they're making it! What they're essentially saying is that only the deaths of African Americans are important.

The whole anti-police thing is getting on my nerves as well. Yes, there are corrupt cops who let the power go to their heads. But what about the good cops out there that are really only trying to make their communities safer? What about the cops that spend time with at-risk teenagers and offer them a mentor who is truly looking out for their best interest? What about the police officers that go out of their way to help families who have been victims of crimes by gathering money to replace stolen items of children? There are stories like that on newsfeeds every day, but they are always under the larger headline of 'Cop kills criminal'. My brother-in-law is a cop, and he is not out there trying to shoot someone who looks at him the wrong way. He's out there protecting people, and hoping each and every single day he's at work that he doesn't come face to face with someone who's going to put a bullet in him simply because he's wearing a uniform.

So yes, I do believe that GIF is completely accurate. Black Panthers are equally as wrong as the clan. They don't preach equality and peace for everyone. They preach that they should be treated as superior and everyone else is beneath them. That is not a message that anyone should stand behind, and if a person does stand behind it, it just shows how ignorant they truly are.
 
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Nydanna said:
Not really. Black Panthers were not about peace, and they were not about equality between whites and blacks. How is a black person walking around saying 'Black Power' not the same? If I'm white and walking around saying 'White Power', I am a racist. If you're black, and you're walking aroun saying 'Black Power' it's the same damn thing.

What pisses me off about the whole 'Black Lives Matter' movement is that they're failing to point out one major fact; black on black crime is a thing! You see it on the news every day. Don't sit and publicize Black Lives Matter without focusing on the other factors. You can't blame every single black death on white people and the police, because that is just not the case.

All lives should matter, not just black and white. Murder and violence against any group, between any group should not be accepted. The whole reason there is so much racial tension is because groups like Black Lives Matter are helping to create it. You don't see them working along side white people to try and defuse the tension, they're making it! What they're essentially saying is that only the deaths of African Americans are important.

The whole anti-police thing is getting on my nerves as well. Yes, there are corrupt cops who let the power go to their heads. But what about the good cops out there that are really only trying to make their communities safer? What about the cops that spend time with at-risk teenagers and offer them a mentor who is truly looking out for their best interest? What about the police officers that go out of their way to help families who have been victims of crimes by gathering money to replace stolen items of children? There are stories like that on newsfeeds every day, but they are always under the larger headline of 'Cop kills criminal'. My brother-in-law is a cop, and he is not out there trying to shoot someone who looks at him the wrong way. He's out there protecting people, and hoping each and every single day he's at work that he doesn't come face to face with someone who's going to put a bullet in him simply because he's wearing a uniform.

So yes, I do believe that GIF is completely accurate. Black Panthers are equally as wrong as the clan. They don't preach equality and peace for everyone. They preach that they should be treated as superior and everyone else is beneath them. That is not a message that anyone should stand behind, and if a person does stand behind it, it just shows how ignorant they truly are.
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We have another word for that. It's called being "pro-black". Hell I call out people like that all the time on their behavior. While I'm personally in the No Lives Matter category, you raise good points and you basically just said why the NBPP is considered a hate group and why MLK is celebrated far more than Malcolm X ever will be.
 
SacredWarrior said:
We have another word for that. It's called being "pro-black". Hell I call out people like that all the time on their behavior. While I'm personally in the No Lives Matter category, you raise good points and you basically just said why the NBPP is considered a hate group and why MLK is celebrated far more than Malcolm X ever will be.
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I'm actually a 'Cat Lives Matter' person. I'd get rid of nearly every single human being and replace them all with cats! Life wouldn't exactly be peaceful, but it'd be cute as hell.
 
I'm actually a 'Cat Lives Matter' person. I'd get rid of nearly every single human being and replace them all with cats! Life wouldn't exactly be peaceful, but it'd be cute as hell.

Wolves are better :P
 
@Nydanna

Let's not forget that modern Black Panthers and the Black Panthers of the 60's are not the same group of people and that the cultural climate is different now than it was then. The BPP started because actual corrupt cops and government officials were looking the other way on police brutality in black neighborhoods. So some people decided that if the police and government weren't going to protect them, they had a right to arm themselves and protect their neighborhoods. Kinda like the guys who started militias to protect people against Redcoats way back in the day. The full name of the party was the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense.

The BPP also had programs like free clinics and outreach to impoverished/abused children.

Did they preach superiority? No. They preached Black is Beautiful, not Black is Better. They wanted a world where it was okay for black people to be black. Black power was about taking back power that was stripped away in the first place, not about getting more power than whites.

Were they about peace? No. Were they militant and did they commit violence? Yes. Is that wrong? Yes, violence is always a terrible thing.

But that's a very far cry from people who only contributed money to putting people into worse situations, who terrorized people already living in fear, and who killed people who never threatened anyone. Who preached that another race was less than human. THAT'S what the KKK did.

I don't think many people can identify culturally with where the KKK came from. But many people can identify with where the BPP came from. The BPP and people like Malcolm X shaped a lot of modern ideas of black culture.

That's a very different context to make a reference to.

Now, Beyonce does make references to Black Lives Matter in her song. She obviously knows that she's making a statement. I don't think she's preaching violence, though. One of the lines in her song is "the best revenge is getting your paper", i.e., getting back at oppression via success. Not violence.

And I know it's hard to separate personal feelings, but saying "THERE'S A LOT OF VIOLENCE FROM COPS AGAINST BLACK YOUTH, IT NEEDS TO STOP" isn't the same thing as accusing your brother or the other good cops who are doing the right thing and are making a difference. That's like the Not All Men people; of course not all men are rapists, good for you for being a decent human being, but that doesn't address the problem of all the rape happening.
 
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Astaroth said:
@Nydanna

Let's not forget that modern Black Panthers and the Black Panthers of the 60's are not the same group of people and that the cultural climate is different now than it was then. The BPP started because actual corrupt cops and government officials were looking the other way on police brutality in black neighborhoods. So some people decided that if the police and government weren't going to protect them, they had a right to arm themselves and protect their neighborhoods. Kinda like the guys who started militias to protect people against Redcoats way back in the day. The full name of the party was the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense.

The BPP also had programs like free clinics and outreach to impoverished/abused children.

Did they preach superiority? No. They preached Black is Beautiful, not Black is Better. They wanted a world where it was okay for black people to be black. Black power was about taking back power that was stripped away in the first place, not about getting more power than whites.

Were they about peace? No. Were they militant and did they commit violence? Yes. Is that wrong? Yes, violence is always a terrible thing.

But that's a very far cry from people who only contributed money to putting people into worse situations, who terrorized people already living in fear, and who killed people who never threatened anyone. Who preached that another race was less than human. THAT'S what the KKK did.

I don't think many people can identify culturally with where the KKK came from. But many people can identify with where the BPP came from. The BPP and people like Malcolm X shaped a lot of modern ideas of black culture.

That's a very different context to make a reference to.

Now, Beyonce does make references to Black Lives Matter in her song. She obviously knows that she's making a statement. I don't think she's preaching violence, though. One of the lines in her song is "the best revenge is getting your paper", i.e., getting back at oppression via success. Not violence.

And I know it's hard to separate personal feelings, but saying "THERE'S A LOT OF VIOLENCE FROM COPS AGAINST BLACK YOUTH, IT NEEDS TO STOP" isn't the same thing as accusing your brother or the other good cops who are doing the right thing and are making a difference. That's like the Not All Men people; of course not all men are rapists, good for you for being a decent human being, but that doesn't address the problem of all the rape happening.
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To address your last sentence, Not All Men IS true though. Do you really wanna get people started on how stupid feminists are when it comes to rape? Collectivism doesn't solve anything. It makes things worse hence all the tension that's happening right now.
 
@SacredWarrior

Except it's an unproductive conversation. It's just a defensive response. Also, I'm a feminist, so please don't lump me into beliefs I don't have; as a man, I hardly think all men are rapists.

#NotAllFeminists
 
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SacredWarrior said:
To address your last sentence, Not All Men IS true though. Do you really wanna get people started on how stupid feminists are when it comes to rape? Collectivism doesn't solve anything. It makes things worse hence all the tension that's happening right now.
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"Not All MEn" is another example collectivism to though. But you are embracing it becouse "FEminists are stupid when it comes to rape", thus subscribing to and wholesale grasping at another form of collective thinking. That's ok though. It's how humans are wired. In the end, It's a counter-counter movement. One that solves absolutely nothing but give people who wanna act like a shit, another reason to do so. As Ozzy said, it is defensive posturing. (Which, is harmfull to the discussion and a result of poor retorics from the other side aka some of us Feminists.) But getting into that is getting off-topic something fierce.
 
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I feel it necessary to point out how bloody stupid the lot of you are for believing what Beyoncé wore was a Black Panthers uniform.

It was an homage to Michael Jackson, you half-wit.
 
This thread is gonna be locked locked soon.

#commonsenseclairvoyant
 
Astaroth said:
@SacredWarrior

Except it's an unproductive conversation. It's just a defensive response. Also, I'm a feminist, so please don't lump me into beliefs I don't have; as a man, I hardly think all men are rapists.

#NotAllFeminists
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Sorry but that No True Scottsman Fallacy doesn't work especially when the biggest names of the feminist movement are clearly misandrists and have a low opinion of women in general. Third-wave feminism is a joke. Always has been, always will be. Egalitarianism is the way to go.

Yes it is a productive conversation. Unless you're choosing to ignore the whole "Teach Men Not To Rape", the Yes Means Yes bullshit, Rape Culture, and the fact that feminists think the whole "innocent until proven guilty" in our justice system is sexist? Oh and let's NOT forget the fact that feminists don't want to take female on male or female on female rape into account!

So yes it is all feminists no matter how hard people try to sugarcoat it and make it seem like it isn't.
 
Nydanna said:
Not really. Black Panthers were not about peace, and they were not about equality between whites and blacks. How is a black person walking around saying 'Black Power' not the same? If I'm white and walking around saying 'White Power', I am a racist. If you're black, and you're walking aroun saying 'Black Power' it's the same damn thing.

What pisses me off about the whole 'Black Lives Matter' movement is that they're failing to point out one major fact; black on black crime is a thing! You see it on the news every day. Don't sit and publicize Black Lives Matter without focusing on the other factors. You can't blame every single black death on white people and the police, because that is just not the case.

All lives should matter, not just black and white. Murder and violence against any group, between any group should not be accepted. The whole reason there is so much racial tension is because groups like Black Lives Matter are helping to create it. You don't see them working along side white people to try and defuse the tension, they're making it! What they're essentially saying is that only the deaths of African Americans are important.

The whole anti-police thing is getting on my nerves as well. Yes, there are corrupt cops who let the power go to their heads. But what about the good cops out there that are really only trying to make their communities safer? What about the cops that spend time with at-risk teenagers and offer them a mentor who is truly looking out for their best interest? What about the police officers that go out of their way to help families who have been victims of crimes by gathering money to replace stolen items of children? There are stories like that on newsfeeds every day, but they are always under the larger headline of 'Cop kills criminal'. My brother-in-law is a cop, and he is not out there trying to shoot someone who looks at him the wrong way. He's out there protecting people, and hoping each and every single day he's at work that he doesn't come face to face with someone who's going to put a bullet in him simply because he's wearing a uniform.

So yes, I do believe that GIF is completely accurate. Black Panthers are equally as wrong as the clan. They don't preach equality and peace for everyone. They preach that they should be treated as superior and everyone else is beneath them. That is not a message that anyone should stand behind, and if a person does stand behind it, it just shows how ignorant they truly are.
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The BPP and KKK are really not the same, and saying they are due to use of similar phrasing in a motto is silly at best, sophistry at worst. Perhaps it's just ignorance if you're confusing the original BPP (which was the intended reference in the Super Bowl performance) with the so-called New Black Panther Party that was thoroughly denounced by the surviving members of the real BPP, which a lot of people seem to be doing in the news and such.

The major difference is that the real BPP was about black nationalism (among other things) whereas the KKK's main ideology is white supremacy. The BPP was about racial dignity, self-reliance, political and economic independence, and freedom from white authority; they had some militant leanings from the get go with their armed patrols, but they didn't start to get very violent until they were being vigorously targeted by the police and the FBI. The KKK on the other hand is all about racial superiority and various version of "get those people who aren't like us out of our fucking country;" their violence was excused in their own circles as defending their families and property from the evils of whatever type of person they were targeting, but in reality they killed people just because they were black or gay or not the right kind of Christian or so on.

See the difference there? Seriously, here's the guiding principles and goals of the original BPP. Make sure to take a look at the very last item in the What We Believe section. They weren't about superiority, they were about wanting to be treated equally and fairly, and in circumstances where that was not possible or likely they wanted to simply separate from white society and do their own thing. They did some bad shit in the name of their cause, certainly, but equating them to the KKK is just plain incorrect.
 
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Seiji said:
I feel it necessary to point out how bloody stupid the lot of you are for believing what Beyoncé wore was a Black Panthers uniform.

It was an homage to Michael Jackson, you half-wit.
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I think they're referring to what the backup dancers were wearing.
 
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SacredWarrior said:
Sorry but that No True Scottsman Fallacy doesn't work especially when the biggest names of the feminist movement are clearly misandrists and have a low opinion of women in general. Third-wave feminism is a joke. Always has been, always will be. Egalitarianism is the way to go.

Yes it is a productive conversation. Unless you're choosing to ignore the whole "Teach Men Not To Rape", the Yes Means Yes bullshit, Rape Culture, and the fact that feminists think the whole "innocent until proven guilty" in our justice system is sexist? Oh and let's NOT forget the fact that feminists don't want to take female on male or female on female rape into account!

So yes it is all feminists no matter how hard people try to sugarcoat it and make it seem like it isn't.
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You can't say this and then stand behind 'Not All Men.'

Also holy shit I need to step out of this thread, because the level of red I am starting to see cannot possibly be healthy.
 
Seiji said:
I feel it necessary to point out how bloody stupid the lot of you are for believing what Beyoncé wore was a Black Panthers uniform.

It was an homage to Michael Jackson, you half-wit.
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No, of course that's what her outfit was.

People are talking about the black berets on her backup dancers.


...At least the ones who know what they're talking about are.
 
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