The Second Amendment

[Flame]

Unf, the right to BLOW SHIT AWAY. I'd support the hell outta that.

We were just talkin' about this in 1st period today. What I gathered was that a handgun license can let you carry literally everything under the sun that is considered a handgun, be it 9mm, 50 cal, 3 round burst, fuckiiiiin whatever. It's cool, but... I don't entirely agree with it. I want me a 357 tho, ya know, since it's legal and all. Oh, and silencers are cool too.

I also learned we're an open carry state, and that technically we can carry an assault rifle with a large magazine on our back into a walmart and nobody can give us shit about it. That's also fucking crazy.

Gun laws are whack, man. I agree with the mental health and background check stuff. I also think that citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry things like an ar 15. Just in case. People would be screamin' MUH GUN RIGHTS, but really, the second amendment only covers the right of a militia to carry weapons, and not common people. (that's what I really learned.)

But whatever, I don't own a gun, and haven't shot one, so I don't have too strong of an opinion on the matter anyway.

 

[Kakumei]

an assault rifle

Your teacher did you wrong. There is no such thing as an "assault rifle". XD

but really, the second amendment only covers the right of a militia to carry weapons, and not common people. (that's what I really learned.)

If you look back through the thread, you'll see that this really isn't the case. They did mean, literally, everyone.

Thank you for posting here!

 

[Flame]

Your teacher did you wrong. There is no such thing as an "assault rifle". XD


If you look back through the thread, you'll see that this really isn't the case. They did mean, literally, everyone.

Thank you for posting here!

I honestly don't know shit about weapons. I mean things like an Ar-15.

I didn't read this thread, I just posted. You got a problem, man? 1v1 me irl. >:>
I said what the definition of the second amendment was what I was told today. As I said, I have no personal opinion on the definition because I don't use guns.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes~

 

[Brovo]

Your teacher did you wrong. There is no such thing as an "assault rifle". XD

Um... Erm... Ah...

The term may not mean much, but, yes, assault rifles do "exist" in the sense that a wide variety of rifles fall under the murky label. Read more here if you like.

 

[Kakumei]

I honestly don't know shit about weapons. I mean things like an Ar-15.

An AR-15 is a semi-auto rifle. Only the military grade AR-15's from what I understand, are full auto.

And even then, they aren't the preferred weapon of choice by military personal generally.

I own one. The only thing about it that is "assault", is that people think it looks scary. Aside from accuracy and stability, its firing (semi-auto), is the same as most pistols that aren't revolvers and the like. I mean, its the same as far as firing mechanism.

And no, not trying to start anything. Just letting you know that your teacher ain't no poop about poop, and that this is a very informative thread that you might could learn a lot from if you are interested- seeing as how it isn't a Debate thread anymore.

The term may not mean much, but, yes, assault rifles do "exist" in the sense that a wide variety of rifles fall under the murky label.

It exists in the sense that people use it to address what they think are "scary", "military-style" rifles. It's a political term, so gun advocates and the like don't use/accept it.

It's mostly a term people use who don't know anything about guns.

 

[Decimate]

I honestly don't know shit about weapons. I mean things like an Ar-15.

I didn't read this thread, I just posted. You got a problem, man? 1v1 me irl. >:>
I said what the definition of the second amendment was what I was told today. As I said, I have no personal opinion on the definition because I don't use guns.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes~

As stated numerous times in this thread, the second amendment does not ONLY apply to militia. It in fact does not give anyone rights to own any kind of weapon as the right to protect oneself is considered to be god given (or natural). What it does as stated by the preamble to the BOR is place restrictions on the federal government for trying to infringe on what is supposed to be natural rights and/or over exert their power as they're meant to serve the people instead of rule them.


The First 10 Amendments to the
Constitution as Ratified by the States

December 15, 1791
Preamble


Congress OF THE United States
begun and held at the City of New York, on Wednesday
the Fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution
RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.:
ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.

Amendment II

Declaratory Restrictive
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Notice it doesn't say the right to own weapons is granted. It just says it will not be infringed by the government which restricts them from doing so. It also allows for militias (all of which are average joe shmoe citizens like you and me) to form if they so desire and allows for that right from the states.​

 

[Kakumei]

That just might be my single most favorite post on the entire site.

 

[Dervish]

Your teacher did you wrong. There is no such thing as an "assault rifle". XD


If you look back through the thread, you'll see that this really isn't the case. They did mean, literally, everyone.

Thank you for posting here!

An "assault rifle" is a select-fire rifle (meaning you can make it semi-automatic or automatic, with some models having variations of this feature) firing an intermediate cartridge (that bridges the gap of a full sized rifle cartridge and a pistol round) from a detachable box magazine. The term originates from the German StG-44 "Sturmgewehr", which literally translates to "storm rifle", which in term gets its name from vanguard infantry called storm troopers.

So, yes. Assault rifles are very much so real. A semi-automatic military rifle available for civilian ownership cannot be an assault rifle because it cannot be select-fire.

You are probably thinking of that political buzzword "assault weapon", which clueless politicians, journalists, and gun control groups like to throw around to describe anything that looks kind of scary and not actually be taking functionality into consideration.

 

[Kakumei]

You are probably thinking of that political buzzword "assault weapon", which clueless politicians, journalists, and gun control groups like to throw around to describe anything that looks kind of scary and not actually be taking functionality into consideration.

Yes. This is exactly why I avoid the "assault" terminology altogether. Arguments around this term tend to be intellectually dishonest.

Ban my Kukri for being an "assault" weapon, because it looks scary.

Its just ridiculous terminology, and I think its better to ignore those terms all together. But thats just my personal opinion.

 

[SacredWarrior]

Everyone has the right to own guns but not everyone is capable of using it in the way that it's SUPPOSED to be used or wants to for that matter. All of the mass shootings that have been occurring lately is proof enough that something needs to be done. Background and mental health checks is one thing that could help and fix whatever holes are in the system. It really shouldn't be that difficult but that's idiotic politics for ya.

 

[Kakumei]

Background and mental health checks is one thing that could help and fix whatever holes are in the system.

Yeah. Unfortunately background and mental health checks don't exist on the black market, or prevent someone who is mentally ill from stealing somebody else's gun(s).

In my old city, somebody stole a guys entire gun safe out of his house when he was out on vacation.

People suck. xD

 

[SacredWarrior]

Yeah. Unfortunately background and mental health checks don't exist on the black market, or prevent someone who is mentally ill from stealing somebody else's gun(s).

In my old city, somebody stole a guys entire gun safe out of his house when he was out on vacation.

People suck. xD

Well crack down on the black market then. That's one thing the dumb politicians never bring up.

 

[Kakumei]

Well crack down on the black market then. That's one thing the dumb politicians never bring up.

I like that "just do" attitude. But everything isn't just as simple as saying "we should do x,y, and z". No matter what, people cannot be 100% protected from anything. Thats why I just say everyone who wants to, pack some heat to protect yourself with, should the occasion ever arise.

 

[Dervish]

Well crack down on the black market then. That's one thing the dumb politicians never bring up.

Black market is already illegal. It's about as easy to crack down on illegal firearms distribution as it is illegal drug distribution, which is like trying to nail Jello to the wall, and we all know how well that whole "war on drugs" fad has been going.

 

[Kakumei]

which is like trying to nail Jello to the wall,

This is too good.

I'm done, I'm going home. Goodnight Folks. xD

 

[Decimate]

Well crack down on the black market then. That's one thing the dumb politicians never bring up.

Probably because it isn't that simple. The black market has always existed and will probably continue to exist. It is the nature of criminals to do illegal stuff.

It is not the job of the police or the federal government to prevent crimes. It is job of the citizens to do that for one another as a community (something that I feel has fallen apart quite a bit with the rise of technology).

And as @Kakumei said, a lot of the criminal (especially youth offenders) steal guns from law abiding citizens ALL the time. In fact, at the Department of Juvenile Justice where my dad works, a majority of the offenders in there for violent crimes with guns stole them from someone else they knew or burglarized as a part of another crime.

In my own opinion from his experiences working there with them, it seems a lot isn't done to try to end crime cycles. Many of those kids in the prison system are second, third, and even fourth generation criminals who have had aunties, uncles, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and even cousins who have been convicted and sent to prison. They have no real home life and fall in with gangs and have absolutely no desire to change. They make tons of money illegally which they would have no chance of getting at McDonalds and the current juvenile system is SO corrupt and incompetent that being there isn't even a punishment for a lot of them. I'm really surprised all the crazy lunacy that happens at those places aren't brought out to public attention because what you see on Lockup and shit isn't even close to the truth.

 

[SacredWarrior]

Black market is already illegal. It's about as easy to crack down on illegal firearms distribution as it is illegal drug distribution, which is like trying to nail Jello to the wall, and we all know how well that whole "war on drugs" fad has been going.

So how do we protect against mass shootings then? Too many of them have been happening lately and two of them happened due to bigotry. Something's gotta be done.

 

[Decimate]

@SacredWarrior

I'm going to leave this here from my thoughts on school shooters from page 6.

NOTE: This is just my opinion. I don't have any facts or figures to back it up like some of the other stuff.

The reason why I think America deals with this shit more than anyone else is because of sensationalism in the media and the breakdown of the community structure.

The desire for fame/infamy has been noted among school shooters such as in the Columbine Massacre in 1999. They were so sure they were going to be famous they even mandated that they wanted Steven Spielberg to direct their movie when it came out. Creepily enough, they do seem to have a murder cult of fanboys if the internet and copy cat shootings/killings admiring them is anything to judge.

In my opinion, the news media plays right into their hands. Everybody who so much as walked past them in the grocery aisle once is interviewed for information and the victims unless they did anything notable kind of slide into the background. Like the Oregon killings from last week. Can anyone actually name a victim outside of Chris Mentz?

Losers see other losers getting their fifteen minutes and they jump on the bandwagon. They leave journals and shit detailing why and how they're doing stuff. They post shit all over social media. You can't tell me that attention seeking isn't playing some role in there.

I also believe that some of the other problems we face in our society also revolves around the media we put out. Racism is now something that is cropped in to almost every killing somehow even if the facts point to other motives. However, the narrative isn't quite so interesting as racism so it must be thrown in there in order to sell. This has the effect of exacerbating racial tensions and effectively creating a problem. Am I saying that racism doesn't exist and/or play a role in these incidents? Not at all. I just believe the Media helps spread it around and actively tries to make it a larger problem than it really is.

This basically:

And as for the community breakdown, I'm referring more towards the rise of social media over face-to-face social gatherings.

We all know how easy it is to lie about shit on the internet vs in person.

But I'm less certain on this as social media presents it's own set of unique challenges that both help and hinder the prevention of crime and reporting.

So yeah ... All this is more my two cents on things.

 

[SacredWarrior]

@SacredWarrior

I'm going to leave this here from my thoughts on school shooters from page 6.

You make very good points and you just stated why I despise mainstream media. Let's not forget how biased they are. The Million Man March wasn't shown on any huge channel but when it comes to riots like the Baltimore and Ferguson ones, they do that all damn day. My point should be obvious by now.

The media is responsible for many things like stereotyping and racial tension and it's only gonna get worse from here on out unless someone makes a ground-breaking change which won't happen due to cowardice and compliance.

 

[Decimate]

You make very good points and you just stated why I despise mainstream media. Let's not forget how biased they are. The Million Man March wasn't shown on any huge channel but when it comes to riots like the Baltimore and Ferguson ones, they do that all damn day. My point should be obvious by now.

The media is responsible for many things like stereotyping and racial tension and it's only gonna get worse from here on out unless someone makes a ground-breaking change which won't happen due to cowardice and compliance.

Indeed, it's hard to break a movement once it gets started and school shootings have, unfortunately, become something of a movement in the minds of those sick kids. I can name several serial killers/school shooters who were motivated and/or obsessed with other school shootings and expressed a desire to emulate them.

I'd say the media is pretty influential in causing that stuff because they go out of their way to link people to the hateful writings and social media posts of these guys which can and does influence others to follow them. The Columbine shooters had it correct when they talked about how much of an impact they were going to make. They weren't the first mass shooter by far (I think the first big one in this country was that 'I hate Mondays' girl) but they were the largest impact because they were immortalized. The same goes for Dylan Roof who has also expressed motivation due to a highly publicized and controversial event (Trayvon Martin case).

And yeah, I can't stomach the mainstream media much. I remember during the Michael Brown debacle CNN literally brought people in and provided ways for rioters to get in touch with people who would teach them how to make Molotov cocktails and or evade the police after curfew. I was not happy about that in the slightest. It was like asking for more drama to happen so they could report on it.