The Second Amendment

Decimate said:
Indeed, it's hard to break a movement once it gets started and school shootings have, unfortunately, become something of a movement in the minds of those sick kids. I can name several serial killers/school shooters who were motivated and/or obsessed with other school shootings and expressed a desire to emulate them.

I'd say the media is pretty influential in causing that stuff because they go out of their way to link people to the hateful writings and social media posts of these guys which can and does influence others to follow them. The Columbine shooters had it correct when they talked about how much of an impact they were going to make. They weren't the first mass shooter by far (I think the first big one in this country was that 'I hate Mondays' girl) but they were the largest impact because they were immortalized. The same goes for Dylan Roof who has also expressed motivation due to a highly publicized and controversial event (Trayvon Martin case).

And yeah, I can't stomach the mainstream media much. I remember during the Michael Brown debacle CNN literally brought people in and provided ways for rioters to get in touch with people who would teach them how to make Molotov cocktails and or evade the police after curfew. I was not happy about that in the slightest. It was like asking for more drama to happen so they could report on it.
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Vester Flanagan is another example (the guy who shot and killed those two people on live television). He was inspired by the Virginia Tech massacre (the worst in U.S. history I think), Columbine High, and Charleston. The best way to combat this in my opinion is to STOP GLORIFYING THE DAMN SHOOTERS!! Why not just focus on the victims instead? That would be a damn good start!

CNN did that? O_O I'm not surprised but damn that's just corrupt as hell.
 
Virginia Tech guy was also inspired by Columbine and thought the two shooters were Martyrs. It always comes around.

Yeah. I was watching it sometime after the Missouri governor instituted the curfew and that happened. I never forgotten it either because of how wtf I was afterwards.
 
Decimate said:
Virginia Tech guy was also inspired by Columbine and thought the two shooters were Martyrs. It always comes around.

Yeah. I was watching it sometime after the Missouri governor instituted the curfew and that happened. I never forgotten it either because of how wtf I was afterwards.
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It's like a never-ending chain of fuckery.
 
Kakumei said:
I saw this and gathered a few things.

Mass Shootings Aren't On The Rise, Neither Are Victims Of School Shootings

Associated Press Story: Believe It or Not Mass Killings Are Not on the Rise, They Are on the Decline

I thought it was interesting.
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That doesn't surprise me much. I'd still argue the trend of indiscriminate school killings are a rising trend outside of what just plain stats will tell you. I believe America is less violent than the media would have the average viewer believe, but that school shootings and thwarted school shootings with the intent to just raise hell is more common today than in earlier times.

I do have some stuff to support that line of thinking, but I'm on my phone so can't post it until later.
 
SacredWarrior said:
So how do we protect against mass shootings then? Too many of them have been happening lately and two of them happened due to bigotry. Something's gotta be done.
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Agreed on all points, but alas, there's no simple answer. A good start is mandatory background checks and licensing on a federal level instead of the individual States deciding what their gun laws are. As stands, some States have such lax laws that somebody who would be prohibited from owning a gun in another can obtain one. A lot of these mass shootings are done with legally owned firearms, so the first logical steps would be determining the hows and whys they were able to buy them to begin with and work from there.
 
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Dervish said:
Agreed on all points, but alas, there's no simple answer. A good start is mandatory background checks and licensing on a federal level instead of the individual States deciding what their gun laws are. As stands, some States have such lax laws that somebody who would be prohibited from owning a gun in another can obtain one. A lot of these mass shootings are done with legally owned firearms, so the first logical steps would be determining the hows and whys they were able to buy them to begin with and work from there.
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I did hear there was a loophole that allowed Dylan Roof to obtain his gun according to what the FBI said.
 
Decimate said:
That doesn't surprise me much. I'd still argue the trend of indiscriminate school killings are a rising trend outside of what just plain stats will tell you. I believe America is less violent than the media would have the average viewer believe, but that school shootings and thwarted school shootings with the intent to just raise hell is more common today than in earlier times.

I do have some stuff to support that line of thinking, but I'm on my phone so can't post it until later.
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I'd be happy to patiently wait to see them.


I also just thought of this point as well:

A lot of mass shootings involve handguns more than they do rifles. Deaths related to rifles are much, much lower than handguns...

Actually, I think they are even lower than death by... toilets.

I'll look for that if you want to see it. It was a statistics thing by the FBI, it was super interesting.
 
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Kakumei said:
I'd be happy to patiently wait to see them.


I also just thought of this point as well:

A lot of mass shootings involve handguns more than they do rifles. Deaths related to rifles are much, much lower than handguns...

Actually, I think they are even lower than death by... toilets.

I'll look for that if you want to see it. It was a statistics thing by the FBI, it was super interesting.
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I just imagined at some point there was a serial killer who beat people to death with a toilet.
 
Dervish said:
I just imagined at some point there was a serial killer who beat people to death with a toilet.
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Yeah I know. But I think it was more of a "death by" than "murdered by" statistic.

Pretty sad if its true. xD
 
Pharaoh Shadon said:
I'm not even entirely sure how it's supposed to be interpreted.
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I'd say, interpret it as the Founding Fathers did.

A few of their views:

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788


I think this addresses the question.
 
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Alright. I'm back!

@Kakumei

I think you might find this from the FBI interesting.

This.

That just concerns active shooter situations in all places and not just schools. I'm going to link from wikipedia (yes, I know it's a bad website, but it allows me to spread out multiple stories without having to dredge for links). These concern foiled plots for school shootings and I want to focus mainly on the motivation column of a lot of these foiled plots that don't happen in the statistics.

Here.


And I found a list of a lot (probably not exactly ALL) of the school shootings pre-2000 era. I think the motivations involved for a lot of these were far different than those being put out today in new school shooting type attacks.

Note: It should be noted that the definition for 'Mass Shooting' changed several times over the course of time. In the most current update, it is any shooting with 3 or more victims.

Here.

And this link here sums up nicely a lot of the school shootings tagged in where the Columbine shooting played a motive in the attack.

Here

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So what does this prove?

In relation to overall gun violence, not much unfortunately. It's hard to find a lot of actual credible sources that are not pushing some agenda behind them. What we do know is that it has risen from 2000-2013 according to the FBI and that the early 90s was peak of American gun violence.

Given the list of school shootings in America before 2000, it is easy to see that there were many "mass school shootings". But were the same motivations there as the school shootings of today?

That's a difficult thing to answer as it varies from incident to incident. However, it cannot be denied that Columbine has influenced several of these sick individuals that have become infamous in today's society enough to be defined in my opinion as a kind of movement. This is just in the United States naturally. I'm not even mentioning the psychos in other places who have expressed interest in the killings as well.

But why Columbine? Why not any other kind of shooting? My answer is based off of the PHd guys on the school shooter research site that point out that it carries a lot more information than most of the others as well as media infamy. There have been lots of tryhards who simply want to outdo them, have infamy, and or want to emulate them as heroes.
 
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