The Second Amendment

[Decimate]

@Kakumei

I can understand some of the Democrats of today's points on things, but I don't tend to lean in their direction much due to their tendency of trying to be a bit intrusive.

Same with some of the moderate Republicans.

It is the same with the gun issue in this case. Hillary (since you brought her up) attributes her hatred of guns from the Columbine incident back in 1999. I absolutely think she missed the point on the issue because I find fame to be a far more sinister actor in the incident than the guns themselves. The killers were absolutely motivated by fame. Their favorite movie was about two murderers who became national celebrities. They mandated that WHEN not IF they became famous they wanted Spielberg to direct their movies "as no one else can do it just right".

Am I suggesting that the news media be censored and have their first amendment rights taken away because of it? No.

I just still find it interesting that very few people point out that the current coverage of these incidents DOES allow for further school shootings as they focus primarily on the shooter instead of the victims. Or at least national media does this. My local media does a very good job about covering victims more than they do perpetrators.

Cuz Americans love themselves some dirty laundry.

 

[Kakumei]

@Decimate

I get EXACTLY what you mean.

Its like they forget that guns are actually inanimate objects that actually can't do anything at all without a sentient being holding it and using it for a particular purpose. How hard is it to understand that firearms are amoral objects? I cannot understand the mentality of people who think that something that fires bullets is inherently evil, or that taking away guns somehow takes away a persons motive to cause other humans harm.

Knife attacks are prevalent in gun free China. Just about two years ago a man ran into a school and stabbed 21 people.

I mean, look at how people used to kill each other. First you have rocks. Then sharper rocks. Then sticks with rocks. Then sharp sticks. Then clubs. Then swords, etc etc.

People were still getting killed left and right, and guns coming along didn't change much, except that gun ownership literally empowers the weakest among us to be able to take on the worst of bullies- Tyrants, Rapists, Murderers and thieves; just to name a few.

Its the mentality and psychology that counts.

Which begs the question for a new debate- How do video games effect violent crime? Can they cause kids to become a little bit darker? Can they push people with preconceived issues into acting on thoughts or ideas that they normally wouldn't?

I think its a fascinating topic that should be explored and discussed some time.

 

[Brovo]

Which begs the question for a new debate- How do video games effect violent crime?

No. Not even slightly.

Scientific fact, proven beyond even a shred of doubt. Just spend five minutes on Google and this won't even need to be a debate.

 

[Kakumei]

Scientific fact, proven beyond even a shred of doubt. Just spend five minutes on Google and this won't even need to be a debate.

I already know that. I think people who play video games like CoD and then go out and kill people (Sandy Hook shooter) are already equipped with the crazies necessary to do horrible things.

I do think that games can provide examples of very simple tactical training that a dingnut would pick up and use in an actual shooting. But then again, thats the beauty of games... Immersion.

 

[Decimate]

@Brovo @Kakumei

I wouldn't blame violent crime in juveniles on video games or media in general.

I don't have facts in front of me, but I do have a dad who works for the DJJ in our state.

A large majority of those in juvenile prisons are second and third generation criminals who have had MULTIPLE relatives killed or put into adult prisons. They also live in gang or poverty areas a lot of the time.

Mass school shooters are manipulated by other mass school shooters and often follow the same M/O. I feel there's enough evidence to throw together a scenario of angry, depressed, cowardly individual wants their narrative put out to the world so they follow the path of others who accomplished that. The FBI study of school shootings also supports this trend. Also nothing to do with video games playing a factor as far as I'm concerned other than passing references.

I already know that. I think people who play video games like CoD and then go out and kill people (Sandy Hook shooter) are already equipped with the crazies necessary to do horrible things.

I do think that games can provide examples of very simple tactical training that a dingnut would pick up and use in an actual shooting. But then again, thats the beauty of games... Immersion.

I'd be careful with that. Lol. We just got done debating Anita. We don't need a Jack Thompson thread coming up too.

 

[Kakumei]

I'd be careful with that. Lol. We just got done debating Anita. We don't need a Jack Thompson thread coming up too.

I only say that because I have gone from being shit at paintball, to kicking ass after years of Gears of War.

And I was a terrible shot at 20ft with a pistol until I fucked around on some CoD Zombies and all of the sudden my aim got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

EDIT: I realize that I can only speak for myself, and that the rest of it is just discussion and theoretical. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be interesting or intelligent if the right people were involved.

 

[Kame]

Are we talking about if the America's should ban fire arms? If so than i think that they can't either way, whether they ban it or not everyone will find a way to get it just like weed and cocaine. People will find a way to kill someone regardless if they can't find a gun, if the individual has the urge to do so badly enough they will even use a toilet seat to bang the head of the target. So whats next? Ban toilet seats? People are so stupid, why ban something when it exists? Just like rape and murder, its illegal but we still see it happening. The world would be such a more reasonable place if we all just accepted the horrors of earth.

 

[Kakumei]

Are we talking about if the America's should ban fire arms? If so than i think that they can't either way, whether they ban it or not everyone will find a way to get it just like weed and cocaine. People will find a way to kill someone regardless if they can't find a gun, if the individual has the urge to do so badly enough they will even use a toilet seat to bang the head of the target. So whats next? Ban toilet seats? People are so stupid, why ban something when it exists? Just like rape and murder, its illegal but we still see it happening. The world would be such a more reasonable place if we all just accepted the horrors of earth.

Short, sweet and to the point.

You. I like you.

 

[Kame]

Short, sweet and to the point.

You. I like you.

I like you too xD

 

[Shadon Xarian]

And besides, if a gamer does a crime like that, then they can't continue the story of Metal gear solid D:

And I was a terrible shot at 20ft with a pistol until I fucked around on some CoD Zombies and all of the sudden my aim got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

I wonder if that translated to me too... Lots of studies show that video games give us real life skills (Such as better reaction time) But aiming a gun in a video game and real life feel quite different (To me anyway, even video game to video game feels different) Perhaps your mind translates the data you see in the game, and applies it to real life, modifying it to fit real life physics? Or perhaps the piece of knowledge the game let you experience was the one piece of knowledge you were missing you needed to be a better shot beforehand. Something I should look into.

But also got me thinking. Simulations from VR (Which is a thing as we speak) A simulation that will cover things like say mall/school shootings, give people experience in a non-deadly environment, that way their survivability chances will be boosted.

 

[Dervish]

I already know that. I think people who play video games like CoD and then go out and kill people (Sandy Hook shooter) are already equipped with the crazies necessary to do horrible things.

I do think that games can provide examples of very simple tactical training that a dingnut would pick up and use in an actual shooting. But then again, thats the beauty of games... Immersion.

From personal experience, video games are more or less the anti-tactics of what you train to do in the military. Considering most shooters tend to promote running and gunning and snap reflexes verses fire suppression and slow, methodical room clearing, the execution is quite different. Think of it this way, in video games, you respawn so you can take risks and it's considered a good thing if you ended up killing 4 players on an objective before you died. In real life, even if you get wounded, you're still a liability for your forces who need to treat and evacuate you. Everything you do is doctrine and maximizing your survival potential.

Hell, it took me a while to enjoy war movies again after I enlisted because they're crazy inaccurate.

That said, video games can be really handy for things like painball, as you've said works for you (and interestingly enough, the idea for Gears of War came about when they were playing paintball), but paintball also is a short range shooter tag where getting shot just means waiting a few minutes for the next round. It lacks the immediate fear of getting shot at from 300 meters from guys you only vaguely know where they are and knowing you could die at any minute. It's why I find it kind of amusing when airsoft die hards who talk shit extol how realistic it is. No, not it is not.

Point is, definitely don't try anything you picked up from video games in an actual shooting situation. You want to keep distance between you and the bad guy and as much cover as you can and be prepared to wait it out for a long time and reserve your rounds. Your job is to survive until the bad guy makes a mistake, which is not an easy thing to do. It's worth looking into actual training classes for thst kind of stuff if you ever intend to conceal carry or fear home invasion, because you can never be too prepared for when something does happen, although we all hope it never does.

 

[Diana]

I saw this today, and it made me laugh and think of this thread. 8D

 

[Kakumei]

From personal experience, video games are more or less the anti-tactics of what you train to do in the military. Considering most shooters tend to promote running and gunning and snap reflexes verses fire suppression and slow, methodical room clearing, the execution is quite different.

This makes the assumption that everyone plays the "run and gun" style.

It really isn't hard to get a group of people together and formulate a plan that wrecks the other teams "run and gun" gameplay.

And- Gears of War is a sweep and clear type of game play. Unless you count Judgement, but you can't.

 

[Kakumei]

I thought about it more, and I hit a pretty hard realization.

The U.S. Constitution wasn't exactly designed for some ultimate safety utopia.

Such a thing cannot and will not exist. However, maximum freedom and maximum personal responsibility can.

The Second Amendment wasn't designed for safety in mind. It was designed as a countermeasure against anyone who would try to take away the freedom of the American people.

But because of this build in countermeasure, we can have freedom and safety.

 

[Decimate]

I thought about it more, and I hit a pretty hard realization.

The U.S. Constitution wasn't exactly designed for some ultimate safety utopia.

Such a thing cannot and will not exist. However, maximum freedom and maximum personal responsibility can.

The Second Amendment wasn't designed for safety in mind. It was designed as a countermeasure against anyone who would try to take away the freedom of the American people.

But because of this build in countermeasure, we can have freedom and safety.

That's what I've been saying for awhile now. The founding fathers did not create the bill of rights to grant rights to anyone. It's to prevent people from taking them away. That's why it's written with declarations and restrictions as stated in the preamble.

 

[unanun]

@Asmodeus

 

[Hecatoncheires]

A Schmoyho link is always appropriate in these situations.

 

[Asmodeus]

I've forgotten what we were talking about.

Something about guns.

 

[Tegan]

No, I think it was a discussion about puns.

It's our right as Americans, ya'know.

 

[Peter Feels]

I skimmed over most of this. Don't know what's really being talked about. Don't care.

I like guns, but I also like weapons in general. I don't have one, I want one, but if I never got one then shit happens.

I think we could take a page from @Brovo and a game variant I once saw on Call of Duty: Use a tiered system of weapon gaining. Everyone can buy knives and when you can clean it, sharpen it, maintain it, and haven't cut yourself too often after awhile, you get yourself a bigger knife. Repeat until you get yourself some kind of attack copter.

Or sensible mental health screens and yadda yadda. Personally, I just want to wear my sword without looking like a fat, weaboo dipshit in everyone's eyes. "There goes that guy with the neat, middle-of-the-road wall hanger", they'll say.