Mafia 2.0: Day Thread Game #5

[Starlighter]

ROLE LIST

2 Vampires - A neutral role whose goal it is to kill or convert all town members. Vampires have the ability to convert a town player into a vampire at night. If a conversion is successful then the vampires may not attempt to convert someone the following night; if a conversion fails then the vampires may attempt to convert someone the following night. Only town-aligned players may be converted, neutral players will not be converted. Healing a player targeted to be converted will not stop the conversion. Roleblocking the youngest vampire (the one most recently converted) will cause the the conversion to fail- note that if nobody has been converted yet, all living vampires count as the youngest. There may only be four vampires at a time: vampires may not attempt to convert more players if there are currently four vampires alive. Vampires may speak to each other at night.
1 Angel - A neutral role whose goal it is to protect a randomly assigned town player. The angel will win so long as their assigned player survives: thus the angel can win even if the angel themselves die or if the assigned player is converted into a vampire. The angel may protect their assigned player at night a maximum of two times: if the protected player is attacked, then the angel shall die in their place. The angel may also send their assigned player a message at night one time only: I will be the one to send the message via PM, so the angel may choose whether or not their identity is revealed. The Angel will become a Scarecrow if their target is lynched, or dies on a night that the Angel is not protecting them. The goal as a Scarecrow is to follow their protectee to the grave via lynching.
1 Werewolf - A neutral role whose goal it is to kill everyone but themselves. They may target a player to kill every other night, starting on the second night. If the werewolf is roleblocked, then the player who roleblocks them shall be killed in place of the originally targeted player.
1 Ghost - A town role who likes to haunt people. The ghost may target a player to "haunt" every night, which results in the targeted player being roleblocked if successful. A ghost's roleblock is unsuccessful if they die that night.
1 Lich - A town role who raises the dead. The lich may target a dead player to revive at night, and if their revival is successful then the dead player will be become alive again the following day as their original role. A revival is unsuccessful if the lich is roleblocked or killed. If the lich successfully revives someone then they may not revive anymore players.
1 Fairy - A town role who heals others with their magic. The fairy may target one player to heal every night, which will prevent the player's death if they are attacked. The fairy's heal will not be successful if they are roleblocked or killed. The fairy may heal themselves a maximum of two times.
1 Bat - A town role who is part of a spying duo. The bat can target a player to watch at night, and will be informed of anyone who that player visits when the night ends. The bat's ability fails if they are roleblocked. The bat has a night chat with the cat.
1 Cat - A town role who is part of a spying duo. The cat can target a player to watch at night, and will be informed of anyone who visits that player when the night ends. The cat's ability fails if they are roleblocked. The cat has a night chat with the bat.
1 Reaper - A town role who may capture souls for the night. The reaper chooses someone to "trap" any time during the day phrase. The targeted player will become "trapped" at night, meaning they are unable to use their ability or communicate in any other chats they may typically be able to. Instead the trapped player is only able to talk with the reaper for the duration of the night. The conversation shall be held through me so that the reaper may remain anonymous to the trapped player. The reaper may choose to execute the trapped player if they believe they are a scum role. However, if the reaper traps the werewolf or vampire and fails to execute them before the night is through, then the reaper shall die. The reaper may be healed by the fairy to prevent their death from failing to execute a vampire or the werewolf, but an executed player cannot have their death prevented by the heal. The reaper's abilities are unaffected by roleblocks.
1 Witch - A town role who communicates with the dead. The medium may talk to all dead players during the night phase. The medium's ability is unaffected by roleblocks.

 

[Pf.D]

The introduction of mathematics has really throws me off, but I guess the gist is that a role call wouldn't really help?

Is that what I'm supposed to conclude?

 

[Elle Joyner]

"The following morning, Elle was found dead, due to mathematical overload... It was no one's fault. Math is to blame..."

 

[Canadian Cat]

The introduction of mathematics has really throws me off, but I guess the gist is that a role call wouldn't really help?

Is that what I'm supposed to conclude?

It has both pros and cons. Imma just trying to figure it out.

 

[Joan]

o_0 this suddenly got complicated...I like math, but still.

Just going off instinct, I think a role call would be beneficial at some point, since we have so many power roles that can all work EXCELLENTLY if they work together, but I don't know that we want to do one this early one because it gives the WW and vamps a whole lotta information we don't want them to have. Then again, the longer we wait, the more vamps we get that can claim their old role in a role call, so...I dunno.

 

[Elle Joyner]

I was gonna suggest anyone with a role says if they have one... even if they don't say what that role is...

But then I remembered everyone has a role *LOL* #valuableinformation

I think what Cat's saying (if I get the math now) is that a rolecall wouldn't make sense because you have more of a chance of lynching a person who ISN'T a vamp, if a vamp lies about their roll, because the vamps are gonna team up and vote for the actual person with the role... So it wouldn't be a beneficial move.

For example.... if a person says "I'm the angel" and then a vamp goes "No, I am" ... then everyone votes - that's two automatic votes (at least) against the ACTUAL angel, which, if other people are unsure or waiver on their votes, that puts the vamps ahead...

>_> Or I'm totally backwards and REALLY bad at math. It's one of those for sure.

 

[Dipper]

I forgot to check the thread. Whoops. Fill me in?

 

[Canadian Cat]

Elle, I was actually more concerned with what the vamps and wolf will do with the information during the night phase, but your bring up a really good point too.

Dipper, we are discussing weather or not it would be a good idea for everyone to announce their role.

Starlighter, when someone dies, will their role be revealed?

 

[Matizze]

Yeah, Imma have to ask for clarification. I get the gist of the chart, something about whether a baddie counter-claims the angel's role claim or not, but I don't understand the percentages...

I forgot to check the thread. Whoops. Fill me in?

As @Canadian Cat is saying, we are trying to come up with a strategy for smoking out the baddies and are considering a role call. What is your opinion on this?

 

[Matizze]

Actually, I'm going to request a vote for role calling right now.
@Kiilgore
@Luster
@Joan
@IceQueen
@Dipper
@Canadian Cat
@LuckycoolHawk9
@Elle Joyner
@Kimberlyn
@Pf.D

Please state whether or not you vote for a collective role call, as well as your reasoning.

 

[Lusterine]

@Matizze I feel very meh about role call. I will if everyone wants to, but I don't know that it is any better of a strategy for sussing out people.

 

[LuckycoolHawk9]

I also am worried about the ramfications of a too early role call.

 

[Elle Joyner]

Nope. I don't like the idea. Gives the bad guys too much power!

 

[Kiilgore]

If the bad guys play their cards right, then we would only save 3 friendlies from the lynch. And we would also be giving this intel straight to the baddies for the night phase and who knows how they could play around it? Alouth this could bring our odds to taking out a baddie to 50% on day 1, but that's not taking into account the angle.

Best case Senario: We take out he werewolf, rollblock the vamps. Pray for the best when it comes to the newest vamp.

Worst case: We fail to kill or rollblock a bady, baddies have a better idea who to target.

The thing is, I think the larger threat for the ww is the vampires, so I think the ww, unless if a vital vital viiiital role is claimed and needed to be rid of, then I'd think they'd go for between two people that are coumterclaiming each other.

Think about it. Vampires convert, max of 4 alive.

If the wolf waits too long, they'll keep a constant upkeep of 4 vamps. (Practically.)
Which... Would be deadly for the wolf
The bloodsuckers would be able to easily Lynch.
------

@Matizze
I feel apprehensive about a rolecall tbh... As I said, it does have the chance to cause the ww to know who's possibly a vampire, but it also let's the vamps know down to a quite small group of people who the wolf is.

Furthermore, our only chance of winning is keeping the reaper a secret.
Because:
Start: 8-2-1
D1: 7-3-1 if we Lynch wolf...
N2:7-3 if reaper executed a vamp:
D2:7-2 here, we'd need to Lynch a vamp and reaper/roleblock the other (or reaper and roleblock both). Else we loose the trail. If we loose the trail, then reaper is bound to be converted, as only town killing. (Or not potentially... as then less of a trail...? Dunno exactly...)

Ultimately... I will claim I'd the majority votes yes.... But I feel iffy about a role reveal. If others have good enough justifications as to vote Yes, then I might change my vote.

 

[Dipper]

Can't say I have any real opinion. On one hand, it's a good idea. On the other, you risk non-town learning too much. I... don't know.

 

[Joan]

@Kiilgore makes some very good points, so I'm leaning on the side of no unless we get a compelling reason to change that.

 

[Canadian Cat]

Yeah, Imma have to ask for clarification. I get the gist of the chart, something about whether a baddie counter-claims the angel's role claim or not, but I don't understand the percentages...

Alright Angel truth represents what happens if the angel says they are an angel. Angel lies represents what would happen if the angel claims to be something else. Honestly I was unsure about what the angel would do if we role-claim. It would make more sense to me if the angel told the truth, as I don't think anyone sees them as a threat, however someone mentioned that the angel would likely lie and I don't think they said that without reason. Either way if the angels tells the truth that would be one more person would be assumed confirmed.

Wolf and New Vamp cross represents weather or not the new vamp and the wolf claims to be the same role. As I don't think any of the vamps would claim to be the same role as they all know who each other are. Keep in mind I am assuming there are three vamps for those numbers. If they do claim to be the same role that would add another baddy to our chances.

The number is just the % chance of killing a wolf or vamp if we were to randomly pick one of the players from a role that has two claims.

Did I make it better or worse?

Actually, I'm going to request a vote for role calling right now.

Please state whether or not you vote for a collective role call, as well as your reasoning.

A roll call has the potential to go really well, however it also has the potential to go very poorly. For a rollcall to be successful basically everything would have to go right. And the bad guys do everything right then it has the potential to go really good for them. At this point I think the risk is too high and I vote No.

The thing is, I think the larger threat for the ww is the vampires, so I think the ww, unless if a vital vital viiiital role is claimed and needed to be rid of, then I'd think they'd go for between two people that are coumterclaiming each other.

Think about it. Vampires convert, max of 4 alive.

If the wolf waits too long, they'll keep a constant upkeep of 4 vamps. (Practically.)
Which... Would be deadly for the wolf
The bloodsuckers would be able to easily Lynch.

Imma assuming this was a response to how in my best case scenario I mentioned killing the wolf? My thinking on the matter is that if we killed the wolf it would reduce the amount of baddy activity by half, which would in theory put less stress on the town. However I think I understand your reasoning, if the wolf is to target the vamps then it would also be smarter for the town to target the vamps. The enemy of my enemy is a slightly smaller enemy.

 

[Kiilgore]

Alright Angel truth represents what happens if the angel says they are an angel. Angel lies represents what would happen if the angel claims to be something else. Honestly I was unsure about what the angel would do if we role-claim. It would make more sense to me if the angel told the truth, as I don't think anyone sees them as a threat, however someone mentioned that the angel would likely lie and I don't think they said that without reason. Either way if the angels tells the truth that would be one more person would be assumed confirmed.

With the change that has been introduced to the angel, they do have incentive to lie.

Let's say for example that Dipper was angel on Elle. If Elle was lynched, ww killed ECT... Then unless lich revives Elle, Dipper would be jester and wants to be lynched… as the scarecrow. The equivalent of jester. But iirc said nothing about when scarecrow is lynched.
@Starlighter will lynching the scarecrow allow the scarecrow to 'jesterkill' someone?

 

[Elle Joyner]

With the change that has been introduced to the angel, they do have incentive to lie.

Let's say for example that Dipper was angel on Elle. If Elle was lynched, ww killed ECT... Then unless lich revives Elle, Dipper would be jester and wants to be lynched… as the scarecrow. The equivalent of jester. But iirc said nothing about when scarecrow is lynched.
@Starlighter will lynching the scarecrow allow the scarecrow to 'jesterkill' someone?

This is a terrible scenario! I protest.

 

[Starlighter]

Starlighter, when someone dies, will their role be revealed?

No. Only their faction - Vampire, Town, or Neutral.

@Starlighter will lynching the scarecrow allow the scarecrow to 'jesterkill' someone?

I hadn't actually thought about this..... I will say that yes, they can; but they will only be allowed to choose from those who had a hand in their protectee's death. So for example if the WW kills their protectee, they may choose to kill the WW; if their protectee dies by lynching, then they can kill someone who voted against them; if their protectee is executed by the Reaper, then they may kill the Reaper, etc etc.

 

[Matizze]

@Matizze I feel very meh about role call. I will if everyone wants to, but I don't know that it is any better of a strategy for sussing out people.

I also am worried about the ramfications of a too early role call.

Nope. I don't like the idea. Gives the bad guys too much power!

I feel apprehensive about a rolecall tbh... As I said, it does have the chance to cause the ww to know who's possibly a vampire, but it also let's the vamps know down to a quite small group of people who the wolf is.

Furthermore, our only chance of winning is keeping the reaper a secret.
Because:
Start: 8-2-1
D1: 7-3-1 if we Lynch wolf...
N2:7-3 if reaper executed a vamp:
D2:7-2 here, we'd need to Lynch a vamp and reaper/roleblock the other (or reaper and roleblock both). Else we loose the trail. If we loose the trail, then reaper is bound to be converted, as only town killing. (Or not potentially... as then less of a trail...? Dunno exactly...)

Can't say I have any real opinion. On one hand, it's a good idea. On the other, you risk non-town learning too much. I... don't know.

@Kiilgore makes some very good points, so I'm leaning on the side of no unless we get a compelling reason to change that.

A roll call has the potential to go really well, however it also has the potential to go very poorly. For a rollcall to be successful basically everything would have to go right. And the bad guys do everything right then it has the potential to go really good for them. At this point I think the risk is too high and I vote No.

That makes:
For: No one
Against: Canadian, Joan, Kiilgore, Elle, LuckyCoolHawk, Matizze (6)
Undetermined: Dipper, Luster (2)

Also, although we now have a majority vote, I would like to call attention to the three who didn't vote at all:
@IceQueen
@Kimberlyn
@Pf.D

Three people. Three initial bad roles. Coincidence? Perhaps.