Confusion about Woman of the Year?

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Kakumei, Oct 26, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. I mean, I am confused, honestly.

    I wouldn't agree with feminists on almost anything, but it seems like Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner getting the Woman of the Year title (award?) would be one of those things they would be upset about.

    I mean, I get he wants to be a she, and has work... But even if he gets his twig and berries removed, isn't he still a guy?

    And hes only been a "she" for a short amount of item...

    Seriously, I'm confused...


    Another sexually confused person.
  2. I'm just going to sit down and watch this unfold into chaos.
    • Like Like x 6
    • Love Love x 2
    • Nice execution! Nice execution! x 1
  3. Shite b8 m8 i r8 it 0 outta 8
    • Like Like x 2
  4. I think the argument would be that it's the state of mind that counts and not the body, along the lines of "If they want to be a woman, they're a woman.". Obviously it isn't currently possible to completly transform a male body into a female one and vice versa, so I guess they just ignore that part.

    Personally I have no quarrel with that, though I don't get the point of gendered "Person of the Year" awards anyway - I imagine it is because it's a women's magazine.

    Was Caitlyn Jenner the right choice?
    Probably not. Sure, coming out as transgender and transitioning to being a woman isn't easy, but it's not unique, is it? If it isn't, you would have to award the title of "Woman of the Year" to every transgender woman in order to be fair.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. At least reason was....reasonable!

    *Budum tis*


    • Nice execution! Nice execution! x 2
  6. Kakumei in all seriousness though, if you are going to talk about subjects regarding transgender and transitioned individuals please at least do some research first......
    • Thank Thank x 1
    • Nice execution! Nice execution! x 1
  7. Not to worry, Vio. I have consulted several experts and upon careful examination of this thread they have confirmed that it is what is known as Baithreadus Cackmaxius, or a 'Shit Thread' colloquially. Which basically means that it exists to frustrate, provoke or generally annoy as many people as possible who don't happen to agree with the person who created it.

    The only known cure for a Baithreadus Cackmaxius is the act known as "shitposting", otherwise known as the blatant refusal to properly engage with the thread's subject matter whilst simultaneously posting in it.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. The application of memes that have little to nothing to do with the thread subject is also said to be quite effective.
  9. I admit I can't find the exact post, but I remember seeing something online that was something along the lines of "Transgender people don't change their gender. They might change their body, appearance, and name, but that's only to match the gender they've always had". And I think it's a pretty good explanation of the entire concept of being transgender.

    I think it's also important to remember that sex and gender are not the same thing. Sex is biological. Is Caitlyn Jenner still of the male sex? Yes, I suppose so. I don't know if she's started taking hormones or had surgery done, and, if those are the case, then the lines defining what sex she is could be blurred, I suppose, but, if we're speaking purely in terms of genetics, then, yes, she would still be of the male sex (which I'm assuming is what you were referring to with the "isn't he still a guy?" comment), but, sex isn't gender, which makes it a bit of a moot point.

    Gender is psychological. It refers to whether or not you identify as being male or female, and is therefore a much more complicated topic than sex. I won't hash out all the particulars here, but, in short, that's what the difference is -- sex is body, gender is mind.

    People who are transgender essentially feel like their body doesn't match their gender, and often feel like their body is foreign or wrong to them, which is why they may choose to have surgery done to change these aspects of themselves, and why they might change their name, etc.

    Think of it this way: if you were a man, would you feel comfortable having boobs and a vagina, having a feminine name, society telling you to wear feminine clothes, and hearing everyone refer to you as "she"? Probably not. Well, a trans man would feel the same. That's why he would probably want to change his name/pronouns, as well as the clothes he wears or perhaps even his body's own sex organs. (Though not every trans person goes through surgery or follows the exact same set of steps to transition, I might add. Everyone's different, after all. Regardless, it's not their body that matters -- it's the state of mind.)

    As for whether or not Caitlyn Jenner deserves to be the 'Woman of the Year', well, that's a whole other debate, even if you fully and unquestionably accept her as being a woman. I'm not going to act like I know enough about any other potential candidates to say whether or not she deserves that award.

    But I will say this: even though she's not exactly unique in being a trans woman, she is somewhat unique in the fact that she's stirred up a lot of attention and recognition for trans people. She's brought the topic more into the forefront and made more people aware of the concept of being transgender. Yeah, not everyone accepts her and some people still vehemently deny that she's a woman, but, a lot of other people have accepted her, and the fact that Caitlyn Jenner is practically a household name now is making the whole transgender thing a lot more normalized -- something that isn't just some weird thing that people would feel the need to hide in fear of other people not accepting them or even thinking that they need to be "fixed" somehow.

    I can't speak for everyone, but I've heard a lot of trans people say that Caitlyn is sort of inspiring in the regard that she represents a certain level of hope for them in regards to the direction that things are going. Caitlyn isn't the only trans woman, no, but she's certainly gained a lot more attention and recognition than most trans women do, and her coming out has done a lot for the trans community in the form of raising more awareness and acceptance. The whole thing has stirred up a lot of anger and controversy, sure, but I suppose it's better that society is actually talking about these things and giving trans people more of a chance to come out and be supported than just treating trans people like some sort of taboo topic and making them feel like outcasts or mistakes.

    And I'm assuming that that is the reason why she was given that award. Whether or not you agree is a different topic, but, I can definitely understand the rationale behind it.

    Help that clears things up for you, OP.
    #9 Kagayours, Oct 26, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
    • Love Love x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. I have. Don't know if you noticed, but I'm not exactly stable with my own gender.

    But gender transitioning is still considered in the psychological community as a mental illness. Of course, they don't say it, but my friend who is a clinical psychologist said that its the same as "trans-abled" people. The ones who think they were supposed to be disabled, so they cut of a body part to be "comfortable".

    Gender might be "fluid", but science is pretty adamant that sex decided by your chromosomes at conception. Otherwise, I'd be happy to switch the opposite sex. You simply can't.

    And I don't buy the "if you think something different you are something different" mentality. How does that work? Because if I think I had 3 dicks, I wouldn't. The extent of that to me would be pretending with three dildos or something.

    I'm seriously posing a serious question.

    Thats partially why I was trying to get peoples opinions on this. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

    This isn't a troll. I'm asking a serious question here....
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Well first of all, it's Glamour Magazine. Anyone that is expecting a magazine dedicated to make up, fashion, and pushing unrealistic and shallow content in the minds of women can't really be expected to do to notch articles. If you've ever read Glamour or it's sister mags, the majority of their articles are complete and utter shit. @_____@ So you can't expect them to go putting women that really need the recognition on their cover. They're going to grab whomever is a hot topic right now to sell their magazine,

    HOWEVER. I don't think this was a bad choice for them, and for once they're doing something that is actually progressive and fantastic for the transgender community. O__O They are acknowledging Caitlyn Jenner, bringing more attention to the issues that transgender people have to deal with. They may have picked her just because she was the topic of the year, but they're still doing something GOOD with it.

    I hope this means better quality of content in my magazines, but I won't hold my breath. >:[
    • Like Like x 2
    • Love Love x 1
    • Thank Thank x 1
  12. Speaking of feminists in regard to this, the whole transgender thing makes for a huge schism in feminist ideology.

    On the one side you have the ones who say that it doesn't matter what you think you are and what you want to be, you're not a real woman unless you were born as one and grew up as one. Some points that have been brought up for ages to support this position is that things like menstruation and pregnancy and so on are integral to the female identity so someone who didn't have any of them can't really be a woman. Nowadays they also tend to back this up with talk about how if you don't grow up with female oppression under the influence of patriarchy then you can never really understand the full meaning of being a woman.

    On the other side you have the one who call the first group TERFs, or trans exclusionary radical feminists, and say that position is horrible and awful and so on. They tend to be the feminists who believe things like "gender is a social construct" or the more extreme version of "biological sex is a social construct," and because of that world view they say that a person is whatever they identify as because your chosen gender identity is the only thing that matters. To them, a male to female trans person is in fact a woman just as much as any other woman, because they say genitals and chromosomes don't determine gender.

    So, just as with any other broad statement about feminists and what they might think or believe, this doesn't have one simple answer. The first group is saying this is bullshit and misogynistic (because they see it as the magazine giving the award basically saying that a man is better at being a woman than any of the many real women they could have picked instead); the second group seems to be hailing this as a great thing and a step forward for trans acceptance and so forth, as they've done with basically everything positive regarding Caitlyn Jenner.

    Now that the little lesson in identity politics is out of the way, I personally don't really give a damn. It's an award given by some magazine that most people didn't give half a fuck about until the outrage machine that is the internet and modern media started pooping out nonsense about this. Let the magazine espouse their beliefs with their awards, whatever. It's not like this is a Nobel Prize or something else that might actually be important, so honestly everyone getting bent out of shape about it is silly and needs to rethink their life choices that have led them to getting angry about some magazine's award recipient choices.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. I suppose you are right??? Or he could be genuinely confused and you are making an ass of yourself. Regardless I can't tell because this is the internet! :D

    I'm just going off the notion that people can be genuinely confused over subjects such as this hence why I told him to simply look it up and do some research. ^^

  15. I'm always being serious and I'm always taken like I am just trying to stir things up...

  16. Don't post shitty bait threads, then.

    • Love Love x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. I retract my previous post and am leaving this thread alone because its just going to make me angry.
  18. -Adds a little more whiskey to Grumpy's whiskey- Ssshhhh. Sshhhhhhhh. It's okay, baby. It's okay!
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Thank you, this kind of helped. And thank you for taking me seriously.

    This helped a lot too. And maybe it was my bad for taking it so seriously to task. It legitimately does confuse me.
  20. Ooohhh nooOOOoooOOOOoooo...

    Someone who grew up in a different place and culture that doesn't have all this extra, complicated "gender fluidity" stuff is trying to get perspective and understanding from people out there in the real world and not some super edited site from google, just wants to ask people unfiltered about something.

    Jeez, what a shit stirrer right? fml...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.