A poll about religion

[Smo]

See, I disagree with the view of "oh, they don't want religion involved because so and so." This may be the case for SOME but not all. I personally believe religion should have nothing to do with the educational system UNLESS it has something to do with actual history. I.E. the Crusades. That's it. School is not a place of worship, or for discussions of what is the true religion or that "my religion is better than yours because we get to practice it openly and you don't".

Keep it to yourself and your fellow followers.

 

[Malkuthe Highwind]

I say no, just no, to the prayer aspect. This is coming from someone who went to Catholic school for nine years, but ultimately turned out Agnostic Atheist (on the stronger side of agnostic atheism). School, particularly public school, is not the place for theology. That's for catechism studies in whatever church you might want to attend, or for home-education. I cannot stress enough to people I've talked to that there should definitely be a line between academic subjects like science, math, et cetera, because in those nine years of Catholic school, the amount of cognitive dissonance I witnessed was absolutely insane.

That being said, I think that everyone should be educated in all religions. It will help promote understanding. However, that education must be done in the proper context, and without doctrinal/proselytizing trappings. Feel free to teach about the Qur'an, the Bible, the Pentateuch, the Vedas, the Tripitaka, The Odyssey, et cetera and the faiths associated with each, but teach them in a factual manner. Keep actual evangelization out of it, because that only serves to muddy the message and purpose of teaching anyway.

All that being said, to distinguish from mere preaching, any class that tackles organized religions have to also discuss the dark sides of each and every one. From Hitler's use of Christianity to justify the holocaust, to the wilful ignorance of clergy in the Rwandan genocide, and other atrocities committed in the name of organized religion. The number of people I've talked to who haven't the faintest idea of the horrid nature of the Old Testament is greater than I can count on my fingers. Catechism doesn't teach the bad things, but a true, critical, rational analysis of any religion must, must include the atrocities done in its name.

 

[MattyIce]

That being said, I think that everyone should be educated in all religions. It will help promote understanding. However, that education must be done in the proper context, and without doctrinal/proselytizing trappings. Feel free to teach about the Qur'an, the Bible, the Pentateuch, the Vedas, the Tripitaka, The Odyssey, et cetera and the faiths associated with each, but teach them in a factual manner. Keep actual evangelization out of it, because that only serves to muddy the message and purpose of teaching anyway.

All that being said, to distinguish from mere preaching, any class that tackles organized religions have to also discuss the dark sides of each and every one. From Hitler's use of Christianity to justify the holocaust, to the wilful ignorance of clergy in the Rwandan genocide, and other atrocities committed in the name of organized religion. The number of people I've talked to who haven't the faintest idea of the horrid nature of the Old Testament is greater than I can count on my fingers. Catechism doesn't teach the bad things, but a true, critical, rational analysis of any religion must, must include the atrocities done in its name.

This. I was trying to find a way to word this exact stuff haha. I think the biggest issue would obviously be people who were super hard headed coming into a class like this and disrupting it because "my religion is the one true religion" or "I'm atheist, and so all these religions are by stupid ignorant people"

I went to a public high school and a Christian university and I dealt with both of those type people.

Another issue, is which religions would be included in a class like this. Just the major religions? Would they include religions that used to be big but have faded?

 

[Smo]

I say no, just no, to the prayer aspect. This is coming from someone who went to Catholic school for nine years, but ultimately turned out Agnostic Atheist (on the stronger side of agnostic atheism). School, particularly public school, is not the place for theology. That's for catechism studies in whatever church you might want to attend, or for home-education. I cannot stress enough to people I've talked to that there should definitely be a line between academic subjects like science, math, et cetera, because in those nine years of Catholic school, the amount of cognitive dissonance I witnessed was absolutely insane.

That being said, I think that everyone should be educated in all religions. It will help promote understanding. However, that education must be done in the proper context, and without doctrinal/proselytizing trappings. Feel free to teach about the Qur'an, the Bible, the Pentateuch, the Vedas, the Tripitaka, The Odyssey, et cetera and the faiths associated with each, but teach them in a factual manner. Keep actual evangelization out of it, because that only serves to muddy the message and purpose of teaching anyway.

All that being said, to distinguish from mere preaching, any class that tackles organized religions have to also discuss the dark sides of each and every one. From Hitler's use of Christianity to justify the holocaust, to the wilful ignorance of clergy in the Rwandan genocide, and other atrocities committed in the name of organized religion. The number of people I've talked to who haven't the faintest idea of the horrid nature of the Old Testament is greater than I can count on my fingers. Catechism doesn't teach the bad things, but a true, critical, rational analysis of any religion must, must include the atrocities done in its name.

Summed up perfectly!

 

[Lady Sabine]

Another issue, is which religions would be included in a class like this. Just the major religions? Would they include religions that used to be big but have faded?

I think that every religion that has an influence in events large enough to be studied in a textbook on a similar level- so for basic level students, probably the big 3 monos, Hinduism, maybe Shintoism, then some religion-like philosophies (Buddhism and Confucianism).
But for upperclassmen looking to take advanced social science courses? Every religion that impacts historical events they would have read about in other classes. Eastern Orthodoxy, Sikhism, Mormonism... the smaller but still influential groups that have shaped human history in a significant way.

Or maybe everyone would be required to take the first semester that would cover the basics. Taking the second semester to go into depth and look at some of the smaller religions (in terms of impact) would be optional.

 

[Asmodeus]

See, I disagree with the view of "oh, they don't want religion involved because so and so." This may be the case for SOME but not all. I personally believe religion should have nothing to do with the educational system UNLESS it has something to do with actual history. I.E. the Crusades. That's it. School is not a place of worship, or for discussions of what is the true religion or that "my religion is better than yours because we get to practice it openly and you don't".

Keep it to yourself and your fellow followers.

The education system should include the discussion of ideas. Separating religion from education just because it's a sensitive subject and has "followers" is just another form of tyranny. Push religion into the closet, and you end up with ignorant kids.

Discuss belief. Discuss faith and the idea of the divine. Show the countless ways that it is manifested.

Discuss ideas. Emotions. Causes and convictions.

Discuss being human.

 

[Tegan]

I've never seen a problem solved by the prohibition of information.

 

[Smo]

The education system should include the discussion of ideas. Separating religion from education just because it's a sensitive subject and has "followers" is just another form of tyranny. Push religion into the closet, and you end up with ignorant kids.

Discuss belief. Discuss faith and the idea of the divine. Show the countless ways that it is manifested.

Discuss ideas. Emotions. Causes and convictions.

Discuss being human.

Education of religion should be factually contextual, plain and simple.

 

[Asmodeus]

What do you mean by "factually contextual"? Is the massive contribution of religion to systems of thought, culture and human development not relevant?

Sounds like arbitration to me, Smo.

 

[Seiji]

Basically, religion should be looked at as no more than mythology. Use it explain the choices people made, how it impacted culture, art and architecture, but don't teach religion in so much as to begin teaching dogma.

The Crusades happened, they were started by religious men. Explain the whys, their reasoning, and explain how Christianity (or Islam) coloured their beliefs at the period. No more than that. Works like Paradise Lost require Christianity mythos to be explained to understand the text, but explain it in the same way you would explain the Greek gods to someone first reading the Odyssey or the Illiad.

 

[Smo]

No. I didn't say that, @Asmodeus.

I think religion should be taught by what the basis of what they are - the beliefs, the customs, and the texts. There should be no shoving it down people's throats, and heated discussions of who is right, who is wrong. It needs to be addressed in a manner which is not... forceful or judgmental, is what I am saying. Present the facts, present the texts surrounding these religions, but leave out the 'you must believe this because it is the true way and you will burn for it, non-believers!' feeling to it all. I'm probably not describing this as well as I would like to, but yeah.

 

[Asmodeus]

Well, thank you for trying.

 

[Lady Sabine]

I feel the need to mention that Pastafarianism must be a part of any class for me to support it.

Equal time for the FSM! Equal time for noodles!

 

[Mikasa]

Hm.. For a start, I immediately think allowing prayer in school won't make anyone more tolerant. It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would think it does, but if anyone do, I invite them to present their opinion. I find it amusing it's put together with discussion of religion in the same question.

About discussion of religion...

It's been said several times now, but yes, I agree to an objective discussion about religion, void of any attempt to evangelise for any particular religion, and including all the sides to each religion, good and bad. That would foster a deeper understanding of religion in general, but does it change the tolerance of kids really? I don't necessarily think so, which is why I sat on the fence. There is more to just the nature of the discussion to consider if the goal is to make kids more tolerant.

For instance, I think it's more than just the knowledge of other religions that would make a person more tolerant. Let's suppose a class full of Christians (for example), and a discussion like what is being suggested in this thread happens... While some may become more tolerant as intended, I think there will be some more resistant to becoming more tolerant because the perspective in the class would only be from those of Christians. There can be discussions about the perspective of people of other faith, but without an actual example to relate that perspective to them, I don't think it will be as persuasive. Hence, the make-up of the discussion group is a factor to think about.

Additionally, religion isn't exactly a choice for most of us. Usually, our families are involved in that particular religion, assuming they had any. When you were born, it's very likely your parents chose your religion. Bringing you up with that choice of religion, I think it's even more likely they shape your perception of religion in a way that's skewed towards the choice they made. That said, wouldn't there be a sort of defensiveness provoked in children with more religious background when their religion is 'attacked', and a sort of self-justification when they hear of the bad in other religions? Hence, managing the likely more biased perceptions from people with more religious backgrounds is another factor.

Do consider also the difficulty of conducting such a discussion. The person leading the discussion would have to remain objective and at the same time manage the biased perceptions of both the kids and their parents (when the kids tell their parents about the discussion). They would also have to have in-depth knowledge about a complicated subject, and not just of one religion, but multiple religions. That is a lot of information to learn about, to the point I would think it's not just content-heavy for the discussion leader (or maybe leaders, to help share the burden of teaching so much) but also the students, who on top of this new information has to balance it with their standard curriculum.

The way the discussion goes is especially important, but with these factors, it's especially tedious to conduct. I believe it would inevitably require a lot of resources, and the repercussions of a poorly conducted one might be more than schools are willing to handle.

The education system should include the discussion of ideas. Separating religion from education just because it's a sensitive subject and has "followers" is just another form of tyranny. Push religion into the closet, and you end up with ignorant kids....

I've never seen a problem solved by the prohibition of information.

I agree with those views, but I think it's not that the education system refuses to include these. It's just that the problem of poor tolerance of other religions is not serious enough that enough people are demanding a solution for it. I tend to think of it in simple economics terms. Without the demand, there won't be supply. And this problem being complex enough to necessitate quite a lot of resources to resolve... Unless the demand is really evident, and can raise their popularity, I suppose not.

 

[Zen]

Teachers should explain where the religion originated, what it encompasses, its ideals, and basically what it is. I think the main concern people have about religion is forcing an ideology on a student. Which yes shouldn't happen. However I believe it's important to teach the various religions so people do learn that there are other religions/ideals out there.

In my honest opinion if you want children to be more tolerant of each other - not just of other religions - they should talk about their cultures. Talk about similarities, differences, and teach them to appreciate both. What life is like at home for you might be vastly different from someone else. Share your cuisines, clothing, music, stories. Like Asmo said, teach them about being human.

 

[Minibit]

I'm pretty sure prayer altogether isn't disallowed, simply mandatory group prayer. A student can say grace over their lunch or pray privately any time he or she wants, but many schools do not support having a "prayer time" in the day where students are told - or highly encouraged - to pray together.

As for the discussion... it wildly depends; to me 'discussing religion' could describe a few things.

• Religion as a debate team topic (I think this should be encouraged, as debate teams are taught to support their arguments with facts, instead of throwing around anecdotes and insults)
  
  
• Religion taught more thoroughly in the classrooms (To me, this would be an inappropriate use of school hours. There are a myriad of religions, even offering one thorough class session on each of the world's major religions (and I'm not convinced you could accurately educate about a religion in one class) would take up a tremendous amount of time. Instead, I think students should be given an overview of the definition of 'a religion' vs. 'a cult', and encouraged to make use of the infinite resources at their disposal to research all of them equally. maybe if the classes were condensed in some way to give more room for practical topics like Math, English, and History, but having a whole course in religion all through the school year? Not so sure.)
  
  
• Religious evangelism on the school grounds (No, no, no! Students can start a club and do all permitted club activities like handing out flyers, having events, posters, etcetera, but being allowed to pursue and essentially harass their classmates to convince them to either follow or abandon a certain belief is just bullying.)
  
  
• Religious harassment. (I don't think religion should be a forbidden subject of conversation, but I think any conversation that devolves into insults and unfounded arguments is no longer a conversation so much as a fight, and violent conversations (whether they manifest in physical violence or not) should be discouraged)

Bear in mind I have never attended a public elementary or high school, and I have also never lived in the States. These are not my opinion on the current state of affairs, as I am mostly unaware of the current state of affairs. This is just my amateur opinion working from a blank slate.

 

[SlamifiedBuddafied]

I feel that it would greatly help, but I base this observation on subjective experience considering I was schooled with a number of different religion beliefs floating among my classmates. Catholicism, Christianity (this includes any denominations of these two faiths), Judaism, Islam (denominations as well), Buddhist (Chinese exchange students), Pagan (Polish exchange student), Taoism (neighbors) and even a family from India, Hinduism. Then again, different religious beliefs have always fascinated me.

I rarely heard many issues in school (general public schools and college) over differences in faith. Though you'd always find a handful of people still doused in ignorance who would find entertainment in ripping on those from the Islamic faith; usually being kids who reigned from families that strictly believed only their faith was correct. Though to my knowledge, as far as school, it was minimal. But of course, one issue (which I in a sense a benefit) in my school, was that religious symbols were not allowed to be visible on school premises. This both kept kids from being targeted by ignorance, but also kept others from learning of that faith.

Most importantly however, is the impact our many religions have had on modern day society due to advances in culture and technology over the last few millennium of recorded history. Religion has played a big part in forming countries borders other than local geography of a nation; more so is the great contrast in beliefs between people that have molded society as we know it and caused society to become vast and radiant. Regrettably, I've never had a particular faith I've believed in. I've found it difficult pray to but one or a set of Gods, mono or polytheistic when there are just so many that have been defined by man. Maybe its irony, but I keep my faith in the planet and mankind.
But I've gone off subject...

In short, as many others who have posted here have also said: Education to decrease ignorance and increase tolerance.

 

[Ser K+]

I vote no, I don't believe it'd make anyone more tolerant than they already are.
I'll keep my explanation short.
Many different countries have many different religions, many of which collide and goes against another. One religion may say there can only be one god, others say there Is more than one. One religion could say that one should devote his/her life to becoming the best he/she can and almost disregard religion, then another says one should devote their life to their deity almost as if they were a puppet.
These differences could possibly intensify(pardon me if there's an actual name) religious bullying, making that batch of kids a little more obnoxious than they already are. Also! as pushy as a lot of kids are these days (>.< I'm too young to be typing like this) I doubt that the ones that don't really care about religion and just want to live life would be pretty unhappy if the religious classmates constantly recite:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Or
"If he himself is not well-trained, Intelligent and disciplined, That person will wander around, Like a buffalo that is blind."
On another note, if it's not required and isn't thrown in their face all the time,(yes I speak from experience) the student probably wouldn't really mind.

"I'll keep my explanation short." yeah, yeah.

 

[redblood]

Personally I think prayer should not be obligatory in school, but if someone are religious then they should have the right to pray during non-class hours if they wish to do so.

When it comes to religious discussions, I like the way we have it here in Sweden. We learn about the five biggest religions in school (and might also get into the lesser known religions if there's time.) and up to 9th grade (15 years old) it's only about the facts. (maybe some schools have small discussions, but in my school we only talked about the facts). In high school we started to discuss religion a bit more, it was mainly about the facts of course but sometimes now and then we got into a discussion about certain things, like the cosmological argument (I think that was the name).

Personally I think it's good to have discussions about religion if you're going to have a religion class (which I think people should have as children then will learn that there's more religions than the religion their parents have, if they have any). Instead of just saying, this is what this religion believes, you can start a discussion and say, why is this good? Why is this bad? How did they come to this conclusion? Etc. It's good to hear other people's point of view on different religions, and understand why people believe what they believe. Without discussions we will only know that "Well, this amount of people believes in this stuff." and if you don't believe the same then one might think "well that's stupid. Why would anyone believe something so ridiculous?" instead of getting an understanding why they believe that, what's the good in their belief, what's the bad etc. Discussions are important if you want a deeper understanding. Just touching the surface will only show you the outer layer and not what's on the inside.

Will discussing religion make kids more tolerant towards other people's religions? Depends on the people. Some people have been taught from early age that their religion is the only right one and everyone else are doomed. They might not change just because it's discussed. But it might help those whom have been brought up in a religious or non religious household to see that there's more than just their belief, and that we should see other peoples point of view, and that might make more people be tolerant. I've never met intolerant people in my own generation, I know there are those people out there, but where I have gone in school and lived there hasn't really been anyone my own age whom has cared if someone believes differently.

 

[Spelphas]

If fanatic people didn't press other way beleiving people so hard it would be easier to be open towards them and think about their message. Allowing is better than forbidding.