Scarlett Johanssen and Ghost In The Shell

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If they're so worried about a white actress I say we go all in.

  • Liam Neeson as Batou
  • Owen Wilson as Togusa
  • Mark Hammil as Arimaki (with matching hair)
@Dervish Last actual movie I saw was Deadpool in theaters. Can understand the financial risks involved, it's hit or miss, a single actor saying something dicey on Twitter could destroy a movie before release etc etc.

Do wish we saw more unique movies though. Hit or miss let people try.

Edit: @SacredWarrior I was talking about the original GitS movie, but SAC was god-tier for tv shows in regards to just about everything. Including that opening.
 
Yepp. I love independant small movies, sure. But I am a fucking slave to marvel movies at this point.

To be fair, Robert Downey Jr.'s beard is excellent. Who wouldn't want to see that?

The Red Skull, that's who.

Marvel started to lose me around Thor 2, but they hella turned things around with Guardians of the Galaxy. Haven't really been disappointed since... except for Ant Man having an identical villain to Iron Man.

Seriously Marvel, how fucking hard is it to make a compelling villain? You have one Loki and a half an Ultron, who was great until he went all off into "LOL GENOCIDE IS FUN!" land.
 
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If they're so worried about a white actress I say we go all in.

  • Liam Neeson as Batou
  • Owen Wilson as Togusa
  • Mark Hammil as Arimaki (with matching hair)
@Dervish Last actual movie I saw was Deadpool in theaters. Can understand the financial risks involved, it's hit or miss, a single actor saying something dicey on Twitter could destroy a movie before release etc etc.

Do wish we saw more unique movies though. Hit or miss let people try.
Yeah, that's why marketing is worth it's weight in gold. I think I heard that Marvel or somebody uses about 18% of their revenue on marketing materials? That's insane.

Yeah, I want to see more unique movies, but it's just a matter of time and cost and that deadly thought of "Oh, it'll be out on NetFlix next year" that always gets me.
 
Loki was great in thor, became generic boy for Avengers, then suddenly he is a roguelike last resort in Thor 2? soooo badly handled.

I wasnt to happy with GotG at the first viewing. It was TO whimsical for me. But then, then I rewatched it, and it just clicked. Antman gets bonus point for the end fight though.
 
To be fair, Robert Downey Jr.'s beard is excellent. Who wouldn't want to see that?

The Red Skull, that's who.

Marvel started to lose me around Thor 2, but they hella turned things around with Guardians of the Galaxy. Haven't really been disappointed since... except for Ant Man having an identical villain to Iron Man.

Seriously Marvel, how fucking hard is it to make a compelling villain? You have one Loki and a half an Ultron, who was great until he went all off into "LOL GENOCIDE IS FUN!" land.
I'm hoping that Thanos tops Loki for Villain of MCU honestly, since I love love love love love love love Thanos(favourite Marvel villain) and I absolutely hate Loki(despite liking Tom Hiddleston as Loki). I'm kinda on the fence really? but I can dream D:

Additionally, I'm hoping Mads' role in Doctor Strange is good. Also, another way for Marvel to get a brilliant Villain? Adapt Kraven's Last Hunt for a Spidey movie and don't change much of it, only stuff that would require some changes.
 
Loki was great in thor, became generic boy for Avengers, then suddenly he is a roguelike last resort in Thor 2? soooo badly handled.

I wasnt to happy with GotG at the first viewing. It was TO whimsical for me. But then, then I rewatched it, and it just clicked. Antman gets bonus point for the end fight though.
I loved GotG and Ant-Man. I wasn't too keen on watching it at first, but then my hubby turned it on and forced it on me (That's almost always how it goes with any movie in my house.) Marvel always gets bonus points for me because of the humor in it.

I'm still on a Deadpool kick. The app I used to watch it but a better version up, so I've been watching the hell out of it. I know it's bad when I can recite lines before they say them in the movie....
 
Edit: This thread apparently turned into a conversation about comic book movies in the time it took me to write this, and I sort of regret bringing it back on topic.

Giving the benefit of doubt that casting a white woman in an Asian role was for creative reasons, calling that out makes no one racist. The anger and rage stems from years of Hollywood racism. From denying blacks roles and having white actors black-face, to actually having white actors do the same to Asians with yellow-face. Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's, for example. And in this time America is so racially diverse that it pisses people off that it still happens, putting white people in roles of Asian characters. Another example being Benedict Cumberbatch, a white British man, playing one of the most prominent Asians in comics, Doctor Strange. While I do think he's great for the role (The same goes Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss Everdeen), it's still apart of a bigger issue. It's a representation issue that people are upset about. Media is influential on so many levels and frankly, white people will never what it's like to turn on the TV as a child and never see themselves, to only see racial stereotypes and have no one there to look up to. That's why people are fighting so hard on the issue every time it pops up. So to say it doesn't matter? That's thinking selfishly. It doesn't matter to you because it doesn't effect you or how people view your race. But for colored folks it does, and while there are bigger issues, that doesn't stop lack of representation from being a problem.
^ I agree with this, and in particular the bolded part.

I'm kind of getting sick of people being told they can't complain about minute examples of what they see as sexism or racism because apparently the only thing that really matters are those poor women in the Middle East who are sentenced to death just for wanting to get an education. And while I'm not trying to say that such injustices aren't horrible and worth fighting against, that doesn't mean that other issues don't matter. By that logic, no one should be complaining about any issue in the world until we make sure all those kids in Africa are well-fed.

I know @Brovo already responded to this post, and I was going to comment further on some of his counter-points, but... that whole thing went dark places, and I have to admit that those walls of text were rather daunting, so I'm not going to comment on specific points (even as I type this, I'm not looking back at the arguments addressed -- just responding in general to some of the bigger things that I remember seeing). Instead, I'm just going to make some things quick:

I do think that representation in the media matters, and I do think that people have the right to complain about it. If people compared simple whitewashing to the aforementioned injustices in the Middle East, then, well, yeah, I'd say that's overboard and that they're being ridiculous -- but I haven't seen anyone comparing Hollywood whitewashing to such atrocities, and I don't see anything wrong with people simply saying "I don't like the fact that Hollywood is too white" if that's a thing that bothers them.

I also don't really like the shut-down response of "don't like it, don't support it" or "make something yourself" because, well, not everyone has the talent, time, or desire to pour their heart into creating something just so that it can be something that some mainstream piece of media wasn't. You don't need to be a writer, artist, or whatever to say "I think there's a problem with the way media is doing a certain thing". And, yeah, it takes more than people just not buying something if you're passionate about a cause and you want to see change happen. If you want the voices of the "oppressed" to be heard (and I really hate using that word if only because of the connotations to it, but, it's the best word I can come up with for now) then you have to speak up and make people aware of the perceived injustice that's happening. (I also nearly went on a rant about "privilege" that would probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but then I deleted it because I don't want to get into it here. PM me if you wanna hear from me I guess.)

I also think that the media does affect people, but in more subtle, subliminal ways. Yeah, people don't become mass shooters just from playing GTA, but people can develop stereotypes for under-represented groups and then act on those stereotypes if that's all they ever think of a certain race as being. Let's not forget, there was a frequenter of this forum not long ago who literally thought that all black people were thugs because that's how they're typically portrayed in the movies. Yes, it would be great if people really stopped and thought critically about every piece of media they digest in order to determine what to take away from it -- but not everyone does.

There's a lot more I could say about my thoughts on the power of representation and lack thereof... but I've already spent more time and mental stamina on this thread than I initially planned to. If anyone wants to discuss any of these points with me, feel free to PM me. Otherwise... I'm really not in the mood to get into a debate in this thread.
 
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Loki was great in thor, became generic boy for Avengers, then suddenly he is a roguelike last resort in Thor 2? soooo badly handled.

I wasnt to happy with GotG at the first viewing. It was TO whimsical for me. But then, then I rewatched it, and it just clicked. Antman gets bonus point for the end fight though.

I'm pretty sure Thor 2 was a worse movie than Batman v Superman, and that movie was lacking in that whole premise from what I've been hearing.

I think the thing that really worked for me for GotG was because after a lot of the self-serious movies and what not, it just seemed like a breath of fresh air that was a lot of fun and honestly, it's one of my favorite movies. It probably helps that that was pretty much my last chance I was giving Marvel for stand alone movies (meaning not mash ups like Avengers or Infinity Wars) and it completely blew away my expectations.

If a movie can make me laugh my ass off, it's a winner. Kind of like the Lego Movie, which was so unexpectedly amazing that I bought it.

I'm hoping that Thanos tops Loki for Villain of MCU honestly, since I love love love love love love love Thanos(favourite Marvel villain) and I absolutely hate Loki(despite liking Tom Hiddleston as Loki). I'm kinda on the fence really? but I can dream D:

Additionally, I'm hoping Mads' role in Doctor Strange is good. Also, another way for Marvel to get a brilliant Villain? Adapt Kraven's Last Hunt for a Spidey movie and don't change much of it, only stuff that would require some changes.

Sadly, from the little scenes we get with Thanos, he already seems waaay more compelling than most MCU villains, and all he's done so far is threaten people while sitting his ass on his stone chair of floatiness. That's kind of sad.

Still not sure about Doctor Strange, mainly because I haaaate Bennydick Cucumberface.

Agreed on the Kraven bit. That's rad. I also heard they're doing a stand alone Venom movie, which I hope is not horrible because I love Venom.
 
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how many times you went to a movie in the last few years where it wasn't a remake, adaptation, sequel, or attached to a big brand like Disney or Pixar?
I saw Hardcore Henry earlier this week, I liked it.
I'd suggest it to anyone who wanted to see a movie in 1st person that plays off the more silly bits of games like Call of Duty.
 
@Brovo

This is all I'm going to counter with, because I'm sure someone's already said everything I want to add. (Though maybe I will mention how terribly Lone Ranger, Exodus, The Last Airbender, Noah, and Gods of Egypt all did.)
 
I'mma make it short and sweet:

If Hollywood decided to make Scarlett Johanssen the main character of a movie, then it is their choice. It's their creative rights if the original makers of the animated movie let them do it.

I don't think it's a bad idea personally. We'll see how she does, then we'll judge if she was the right actor for the role.
 
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Screw it. Let's have animals star in all the movies! Then no one has anything to bitch about. :P
 
@Robeatics I left this thread due to people going after my personal character. But hey, if you want to open this again, just don't go after me personally, and we'll be good.

Also, yes, it's a really stupid long post, because I'm really passionate about this subject. When I'm passionate about things, I have a lot to say about them. :ferret:

NT2Vemn.gif


You're going to counter me with a list of Oscar nominated actors?...

Okay. Except I think the Oscars are a place where a bunch of old white industry assholes go to pick each other as winners of a golden trophy that means pretty much absolutely nothing the next year. Can you name any of the winners from ten years ago from memory? I can't. Five years ago? Two? I only remember Leo winning one because the Internet went absolutely fucking crazy about it, but otherwise, I really couldn't tell you the name of any Oscar winner off the top of my head.

I mean, everyone expected Leo to win an Oscar this year because he was "owed" an Oscar, and because he was "continually snubbed" for an Oscar. Everyone and their mom who has a casual understanding of the Oscars knows that they're a political game played by old people to verify their own tastes as "superior" to those of the plebs. Thing is though? I don't care about their opinions. You'll never see comedy films or anime win best picture, because the assholes who run the Oscars don't care about genres that don't appeal to them. Hell, there is an entire category of film called "Oscar bait." These are typically slow and/or extremely dramatic films that exist expressly so that actors, like Leo, can win an Oscar.

That's literally how rigged this system is. That's how stupid it is.

So why would I give a shit about their opinion? Their opinions suck.

As for Lone (Texas) Ranger, Exoderp, The Last Airtard, Noyawn, and Gods of White People? I only watched one of the films on that list. Because I knew the others were going to be trash from their trailers alone. The one film I did watch was The Last Airtard, and only because I was dragged to the theater with less genre-savvy family members.

One might also want to note that all of these films were lazy as fuck and generally did not perform well in theaters. The Last Airtard in particular was so horrifyingly awful that people still refer to it as a joke movie you should buy people that you hate.

Even if they did perform well? Doesn't matter. I don't like these movies. People loved the Transformers movies (as proven by their repeatedly high sales time and again) but I fucking hate those movies. I didn't even watch the last one or two of them, because I was so tired of them that I think I'd have fallen asleep watching them out of sheer fucking boredom.

You know what I like? Slow, plodding, intelligent sci-fi. You know what I'm watching Hollywood do? Slowly erase that genre and replace it with action-packed murder-ventures. Like the new Star Trek films, which are... Fucking terrible Star Trek films. There's no philosophy in them, no intelligence. They're just shooty shooty bang bang movies. It's not like the JJ Abrams movies set the trend for that either, pretty much all of the TNG movies followed the same dumbass shooty shooty bang bang formula. There's no fucking sign of another sci-fi show like Babylon 5 anywhere near the horizon. How long ago was Firefly cancelled now?

I'm pretty trapped to anime and cartoons and the indie movies exclusively if I want to get what I want.

Hollywood doesn't fucking care. They're not going to give me anything I want just because I fucking hate how stupid most of their movies are.

Hell, I'm going to go full unpopular opinion puffin and say that, aside from Guardians of the Galaxy which was a really fun sci-fi movie that made me not want to kill myself (fucking DC Comics needs to pull it together), I have not really enjoyed any recent Marvel movies. I did not enjoy Antman. It was so painfully formulaic that I guessed every single fucking plot twist about 10-15 minutes before they happened. Every. Single. One. It's so bog standard that I at one point stopped watching it to go check on my bank account because that was the more thrilling and unexpected experience. The first Avengers film was really neat. It was kind of unique, in how it tied together five movies, but I really couldn't be fucking arsed to tell you what happened in Thor. I don't remember. I have no urge to go watch it again, do you? How about Iron Man 2: The Derpening? How about the massive fucking endless pile of Spiderman movies that will never fucking stop telling his origin story every five years or so?

Hollywood is going full force into regurgitated samey comic book movies now, and I don't like most of them. I think they're generally fucking stupid. Why should I, as an adult, expect to be entertained by two dudes in costumes punching each other while yelling vaguely about freedom or how terrible humanity is/"moar power mwahahaha"? Why do they expect plots written for twelve year olds, to entertain me, as a functioning adult who likes intelligent fiction?

They don't.

They don't care.

Not even a little. Not even slightly.

And they're under no legal obligation to care either. They'll just make the movies they want to make. My tastes and preferences by no means get to decide what is quality and what isn't. The majority of people who work in Hollywood are white and obsessed with chasing public trends. The public likes dumb superhero movies where "two guys punch each other until one falls down" as the climax. So, by no surprise, the majority of superhero movies are staffed overwhelmingly with white people, who overwhelmingly punch each other to resolve all of their problems.

Even if they decided to suddenly make all roles absolutely even across the board tomorrow, so that you have a 1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1 ratio on all ethnicity roles... Nothing would really change. The Oscars would still be run largely by old white people who don't give a fuck. The people who own the businesses would all still be old white people who don't give a fuck. The movies would still be bland and boring and filled with stereotypes and tropes so predictable that I honestly couldn't tell if the script was written by a professional, or if someone stole something I wrote off my desk when I was fifteen. The entire industry would still self-refer to an absolutely incestuous degree, where the majority of roles (especially leading roles) would always go to a handful of elites, instead of people who might be able to act in that role better.

Everything which is a problem now, would still be a problem. Only, the people who would lie to you constantly and treat you like fucking trash would be asian instead of white.

To me, that resolves absolutely nothing. The entire industry is so horrendously rotten to the core that the idea of outrage over a white person in an asian person's role is laughable. Largely because it's misdirected.

If you actually hate how Hollywood treats minorities, don't buy Hollywood movies. Tell your friends, not to buy Hollywood movies. And stick to that. Don't stop. Boycott their products, it's the only thing they know.

Except that most people here won't. Because they don't actually hate Hollywood. They just hate that the vain, greedy, corrupt as fuck people running in it are white instead of asian.

That's why I find it hypocritical, or racist, or both. If the race of the person sloppily fucking your favourite movie into a haphazard, unintelligent mess would be somehow made better if it was an asian, you're a racist. If it only matters because they're white, and you don't care about every non-race example of incestuous corrupt role selection for jobs in Hollywood, you're a hypocrite.

Doesn't make you a terrible person. Again, I'm no real judge of your taste. I just have my own personal opinion. A flawed opinion, from a flawed human being. If you enjoy the movie? Great! If you don't enjoy the movie? Great! It's none of my business to know or give a shit about how you feel about the movie. Just, at the end of the day...

It's a fucking movie. It's a piece of fiction. Nothing that happens in it is real. The original Ghost in the Shell still exists and is awesome, go watch that instead and go encourage people to watch that instead. It's completely unimportant. It's a fantasy to escape in. There are literally tens of thousands of them to choose from. Why get angry about this one being corrupt in its hiring practices when so many of them already are?

That's really what I don't get.
 
*continues to hope for Metal Gear movie*

*remembers Konami backhanded Kojima*

*cries forever*

-

But back on topic. I tend to give the Hollywood live action remakes a wide berth so I'm not really affected by who plays what character. I enjoy the source material and that's where I will probably stay unless I hear some good things about it.
 
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