Let's dance, caballero. Like old times.
Media in most forms effect human beings, even if it is in small subliminal ways.1 Representation have the effect of providing rolemodels for kids, See: Comics and books. Anyone who claim otherwise is willfully ignorant.2 Point; Superman fighting the KKK in a radio drama was hugely effective in exposing the Klan and stemming its massive resurgence.3 To discredit the effect media has on our society is to completely ignore the history of propaganda.4 Of satire used to redicule goverments and characture to belittle minorities. I see long posts that basicly boils down to "Why are you mad asian roles are given to white people. Media doesn't mean anything." It's a way to basicly kick a entire group of people to the curb becouse they dare to speak up. Yet somehow, "PC" culture is the censoring mindset. No. Time for ol' hippie with a opinion to speak a little.5
Media means a whole lot. Representation is piss poor, and it hurts people not represented. It legit hurts the way people perceive them. Media and art in all forms have have always helped smooth things over. Helped people get used to things. Helped ease the collective hysteria we call society into paradigms. If this was not the case, then books would not be burned and banned by scared dictators. Again. Willfully ignorant to claim Media doesn't matter.6
Yes good actresses matter to. But There are plenty of kickass female Asian actresses who are a better fit then ScarJo. One basically looking like a carbon copy of the good Major.7 The arguments made here is generally the same circlejerk I see everywhere the second a person of color or other minority dare speak up. Its a toxic echo chamber where "logic" is applied to push peoples opinions down and discredit them. Logic that does not hold up because it is inconsistent at best. Logic that the same people will ignore the second it becomes convenient. The same stuff spat by "Ranters" on youtube who play on peoples insecurities and fear of being perceived as something negative. There is no will for betterment, of considering the weight of the collectives actions- Its individuality were it fits the mold, and where it benefit you and nobody else.8
The lack of white rappers is because Rap is still new, and deeply rooted in Urban Culture. A culture born from primarily black neighborhood The big White names are people who either shared the harsh uppbriging of a project kid (Eminem) or people who are incredibly talented and thus accepted by their peers (Action Bronson. Yelawolf). Movies have been around for longer. And have a racist as fuck history towards anyone not-white. There is not real comparison to be made here. Its faulty logic and a strawman argument if I ever saw one.9
1: But how far does it affect the individual human being beyond emotional responses? Unless brainwashing is involved, I've never heard of a sane, stable individual, going on a mass shooting spree because they played too much GTA. Similarly, I've never met a person who was incapable of discerning the difference between stereotypical characters on screen, and themselves, who was not in some way horrendously handicapped in a mental fashion. If interactive media--which uses more senses than visual media and engages more of the human brain--is proven, time after time, study after study, of being absolutely incapable of changing people in any significant way at a subliminal level, then how does TV work better? TV--which, I might add, engages less of the human brain by its very nature.
Again, this is the kind of equation that makes no sense to cherrypick. Either media affects everyone at every level, or it does not.
2: I'm not willfully ignorant for pointing out that fictional media does not shape human beings, and be careful where you levy such insults. Human beings shape fictional media. Media is the outlet by which we voice how we feel, or share in common ideas, or demonstrate new ideas to the masses for them to accept or deny of their own volition. As for the role models point, there is a thing that exists in the world called a "parent." If this "parent" is incapable of sitting down with their kids for, what, a total of 15 minutes? To talk to them about the fictionalized nature of TV, then you have a case of shitty parenting. All of media should not be forced to change because some dipshit had a kid and refuses to raise that kid properly. The role models in their life will be the least of their concern the day they realize that their parents don't actually love them.
3: And yet the KKK is constantly pushing out media to try and
ingratiate themselves as heroes, and yet, the very same general public which accepts the message of "fuck the KKK" from Superman...
Rejects counter messages by the KKK. There have been video games produced that propagate white power bullshit and movies that have done the same thing as well.
... Aaaaand yet people don't seem to be influenced by that media as much as they were by superman punching members of the KKK.
It's almost like individual people were
capable of discerning the message within the comic and the messages the KKK sends out, and discerning one message as being better than another. It's almost like they have to have the capacity to
understand that the messages media gives them may not always be accurate before they can choose
whether or not to accept the message that the media is sending them. Granted, media can be used as a mouth piece to distribute really awesome ideas, or really shitty ideas, but that by no means somehow causes people to stop possessing a consciousness and become a mindless drone. I refuse to see people as being that insanely stupid.
4: The difference between, say, government propaganda and a fucking comic book, is vast. Normally, propaganda is supported through violent brainwashing, forced reeducation, and a restructuring of society through legislation and the law to create the "utopia" that the propaganda spews. It's not just words on a page: It's words on a page used as the cassus belli to silence and kill opposition. It's why you'll find me raging and fighting against every attempt to silence or bully individual people into doing a collective ideal, no matter the intent, political slant, or source of the ideal. The moment someone tries to legally enforce society to do as they wish is the moment I stop considering it mere media and consider it a sincere threat to people's lives. It's why I don't give a shit if some white powered piece of trash actually did fall out of Hollywood. We, as a people, as a civilization, are smart enough as individuals to reject bad ideas, so long as we are not forcibly indoctrinated into them, or punished for doing so. If someone actually did make "Mein Kampfy Chair" in Hollywood, it wouldn't suddenly cause people to embrace the fourth reich: It would be mocked, derided, spat upon, and it would completely fail in theaters.
5: It is absolutely not a way to kick people to the curb just because they "spoke up." Oh please. Be smarter than underhanded insults, Hellis, I respect you and everyone else in this conversation. The only reason I took the kiddie gloves off in my initial response actually is
specifically because I respect the person who said those things and felt them mature enough to handle an extremely painful and detailed criticism of their views. At the end of the day, in spite of them not really agreeing with me, I by no means think any less of them. They hold a different idea to my own: That does not make them inferior. It does not even necessarily make them wrong from an objective standpoint, as I mentioned in my first post, right at the start, I'm passionate about this kind of subject matter. Ergo, I have a slanted opinion of my own.
Hell, in the past,
I have criticized Hollywood for failing spectacularly at diversity.
"It also doesn't help that the Oscars are more of a reflection of a bigger potential issue (depending on what you consider an issue--I personally do), and that is: The general lack of a significant black presence in Hollywood. Aside from a handful of big time actors, I can't really think of anyone." It's not like I'm defending the hiring practices of Hollywood in general, nor do I believe Hollywood to be any kind of perfect. There are totally flaws in how it works, and ways in which one can improve the system. I don't think that picking on a particular person for being hired in a particular role is the way to go about it. Attack the system, not the individuals within the system. It's not Scarlett's fault that was was born white, and until this film is released, I have
no reason to believe that this has anything to do with Hollywood hiring practices. It could very well be that the casting director simply took a look at the role and went "hey we need a female cyborg. Scarlett is available, isn't she?" They went for the big name. They went for the money maker.
I am completely for criticizing this shitty system. I am completely for advocating for reforms to that system, and encouraging and praising diverse role choices. I am simply against picking on individual targets when those individuals have, at no point, stated that race was a factor in their hiring practices. I'm against preemptive mob justice out of a righteous sense of entitlement, not against reform. There are better ways than this. We're not even enemies, I swear.
6: Again, what those dictators were doing was suppressing everyone else from expression, and violently attacking everyone who refused to capitulate to their authority and views. The only reason their shitty ideas could propagate was specifically
because they forced society to only ingest their views. Comparing book burnings to Scarlet getting a job is fucking insane. It's not like Scarlet getting to play this role is going to delete the entire anime industry and result in every copy of Ghost in the Shell prior to this to be burned in a giant DVD pile. Hell, it's not even going to stop asian americans in the future from getting roles in Hollywood. Why are you even drawing this comparison? It's too extreme to make any sense.
7: Again, your choice to pick an actress based on their race for this role is entirely your own. The casting director disagrees with you and has chosen an actress they feel can fit the role, and whose name will probably bring in more dosh to a franchise that is otherwise a relative unknown by the majority of the movie going public. It's the same reason Benedict Bumblefuck got to play as Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness. And yet, Benedict Bumblefuck did a pretty good job as Khan. He conveyed the emotional state of the character well. It is not necessarily fucking racism. And to imply that now all asian americans will be unable to associate with the struggles of the character because the skin tone of that character has lightened up a few shades is
fucking insulting and patronizing to every asian american that is capable of coherent thought. Which, I'm going to likely safely assume, is the vast majority of them. You don't get to decide how over 14 million people think and feel, white man from Scandinavia. Just like how I don't, as a white person from Canada. I am not going to speak on their behalf. I wasn't elected to. If they don't want to watch this movie, they won't. They'll watch something else.
Atop this, this sets the precedent that the recasting of a black man as the human torch in Fantastic Four was also racist as fuck, when there are so many talented white actors who could have taken that role... Unless white people for some fucking reason get less rights than everyone else. Which would be absurd.
8: Really? That's what you think of everyone who disagrees with this? That everyone who takes issue with people being mad about ScarJo being a white person in this role is part of a "toxic echo chamber" that seeks to silence people of colour?
I want you to take a look at my posts. Feel free to point out, anywhere you like, an instance of me saying that people of colour shouldn't get roles in Hollywood, or that people of colour shouldn't be allowed to speak and have an opinion. Because if you can't find even one instance of this, than you're lying blatantly to try and run my reputation through the mud, and considering the respect I have for you, that would be quite frankly upsetting. Trying to take my entire argument and turn it into "lol false logic by a guy who gets mad at every person of colour for speaking" is a really shitty tactic, and we're seriously bordering on having this thread closed if you keep perpetuating it... Because that's literally going for personal accusation territory against everyone who holds a view different from yours.
Hell, I even said outright that I'd love to see black people in more traditionally white roles, like an all Jamaican ensemble cast of Arthurian legends. That would be fucking amazing, but I guess I just hate all people of colour, don't I?
9: You realize I did not at all argue for more white people in RAP, right? Or even more racial diversity, right? The point of that argument was simply to say that if a market does not service my interests (ex: most of RAP), than I will simply not engage in that sector of the market. I will engage in a different sector, or I will create more material of my own in that market.
If Hollywood is a racist as fuck institution, stop buying their movies. They're completely dependent on your business. Support businesses that openly promote racial diversity instead. It's not like there's a shortage of them. There are indie film makers all over the world who would might literally fucking kill to get a budget even 1/10th that of Hollywood. Attacking individual people who may or may not be guilty of
any racism at all because the system is flawed makes no sense. Attack the system, not these fucking individual people. ScarJo just wants a paycheque. The film makers just want to sell a movie. Until they say otherwise, I am not inclined to believe anything.
In fact, I don't believe or disbelief much of anything.
I only verify.
Anyway, next time you'd like to dance, let me know. I enjoy it. Even if you do seem to think of me as nothing more than a close minded racist who secretly hates it when people of colour get to star in movies.
