Scarlett Johanssen and Ghost In The Shell

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You're confused. Hollywood is a business and Scarlett's name (and tits) alone rack up a ton of cash, regardless of her acting abilities.
Her boobs aren't even that great....o.O Is that what all the fuss about her is? Geez, if you're going to go for someone with a nice rack, they could at least make sure they had a pretty face to go with it!

Seriously though, I know that her name is being used to try and draw a new crowd into the franchise, but I really don't think anyone is going to keep someone on if they didn't show at least some promise when portraying the role.

If I was a director, I'd want Alexsander Skarsgard to play every male role requiring a hot guy, but if I get him in front of the camera and he brings zero life to the character, all his hotness is not going to matter. There has to have been something other than a pair of boobs. Although, with her acting, I'm not entirely sure about that. But I'm totally biased. Lucy seriously ruined my opinion of her as an actor.
 
Her boobs aren't even that great....o.O Is that what all the fuss about her is? Geez, if you're going to go for someone with a nice rack, they could at least make sure they had a pretty face to go with it!
I edited away the tits part, damn it! And don't underestimate the power of boobs, whether they be average or not.
 
Media is influential on so many levels and frankly, white people will never what it's like to turn on the TV as a child and never see themselves, to only see racial stereotypes and have no one there to look up to. That's why people are fighting so hard on the issue every time it pops up. So to say it doesn't matter? That's thinking selfishly. It doesn't matter to you because it doesn't effect you or how people view your race. But for colored folks it does, and while there are bigger issues, that doesn't stop lack of representation from being a problem.
Entitlement much? Also you're being very presumptuous and assuming that white people aren't stereotyped in media which is incredibly incorrect. Italians and Irish people (for example) are stereotyped quite often. Then of course white people are stereotyped as privileged and racist pretty often now thanks to certain narratives being spread. I'm sorry but I fail to see how @Brovo was speaking selfishly. You just called him privileged because he happens to be white. Pot meet kettle. It doesn't matter to him because it's not a race issue.

Also you don't know how other people see non-whites. Who gave you the ability to read minds? Last time I checked, we're all individuals. As in people who think differently. If you care so much about what other people think of you based on your race, something's wrong with you not the people. Unless you've met every single person on this planet, you can't say anything about how people view non-whites because you do not know and never will know.

There is no lack of representation. You just don't like how the representation is. The world doesn't revolve around your ideas. I may not like ScarJo as Motoko but I'm not crying racism. I just think Hollywood's being lazy and banking on name alone like always. We're MINORITIES. As in we won't be seen as often as white people because we're not the MAJORITY. If you want representation so bad, do it yourself or stop complaining. Also let's be honest: If Michelle Rodriguez or Gal Gadot (she's Isreali not white btw) had been cast as Motoko, there wouldn't be complaints.

Lastly you're not supposed to relate to a character because they share the same race, gender, or sexual orientation as you. That makes you a tad shallow don't you think? I can relate to Elsa from Frozen a lot and she looks nothing like me. Stop clinging to characters and letting their race, gender, and orientation determine whether or not you like them. And stop being overly defensive of minority characters too. That also needs to stop big time.

Another small thing: Stop trying to speak for all non-whites. I'm a black woman and I don't care about representation in the media. Of course I embrace it but I'm not being demanding about it because artistic integrity is far more important. Plus race, gender, and sexual orientation are not the most important thing about a character. You don't know how all non-whites feel and you'll never know.
 
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The debate can go on and on over who is to blame for whitewashing in Hollywood. People point at the audience because it is assumed that we cannot stomach viewing another race get the glory as a protagonist in a film unless they are white, or have star power behind their photoshopped asses. And yes, I agree that can be true to a point. Look at all the fuss that was made with John Boyega in Star Wars. People were pissing their pants because 'OMG! There's a black man in Star Wars!' all because traditionally the franchise has always had a majority of white fans who unrealistically assumed that the Galaxy was Hitler's dream come true with nothing blue eyes and blonde hair. Yes, there has been outrage when someone of another race is put into a role that fans believe should be held by a white person, even if the story calls for another race.

However, fans do not decide who acts in a movie. We don't have the power to give a role to someone else. That is all the director's decision. If they don't have the balls to go outside the box and cast someone of a different race, there isn't a damn thing we can do about it but not watch the movie. There are directors out there who ignore the rush to judgment whenever someone other than a hunky white guy or gal is cast. (Sorry, but I had to throw this in there because it's significant!) Take the Dark Tower movie. The protagonist is an old white guy. And who did they cast to play the role? Irdis Elba, a middle aged black man. Were fans pissed? If you put money down on that you would have tripled your bet. But did the director change his mind? Check out IMDB and see who's playing the role of Roland Deschain. It's still good ole Irdis. Why? Because the director obviously feels that while he may not look the part, he can handle the role. Has the Sony backed down from the movie? No. Has anyone else washed their hands of it? No. It's still being filmed, because the director is sticking with his choice. If a director wants to stick someone other than Tom Cruise, or Scarlett Johanssen in a significant role as the face of the movie, they can, they just chose not to because it comes down to the money that's going to fall into their wallets.

It's not a race issue. Everyone keeps trying to make it into one, when it's not. People want to see a face that they know, rather than one they do not. People know what Scarlett Johanssen is capable of, and they trust that she can pull the role off. For people like me who don't know the story, they might go to see it just because she is in it, which means more money coming in. If the director catered to fans only, they're probably not going to attract any interest from anyone other than the franchise's current fans. In a way, they're doing it a favor by trying to pull in a new crowd, but the only reason behind it has more to do with the cash that will be raked in afterwards than actually trying to appeal to a different group.
 
Also you're being very presumptuous and assuming that white people aren't stereotyped in media which is incredibly incorrect.
I never said they weren't at all. If you can find that direct quote then feel free to post it my guy, but by comparison the stereotypes of colored people portrayed in media has a more negative outcome than the stereotypes of white people portrayed in media. Not but a few months back did someone on this very site state that they haven't been around many black people and thought that all black people were like in the movies. Thugs. I've yet to see someone who actually thinks Italians eat, shit, and piss nothing but pasta. I also never stated that Brovo was privileged. I know him and some things he's been through, we're both cut from the same cloth of poverty. All I was saying was that it wasn't fair to say the situation didn't matter, because it does, and that it doesn't effect him on a wide scale like it does colored folks. I can see how that could have been interpreted differently though, so apologizes for not being clear on that.
If you want representation so bad, do it yourself or stop complaining.
I'm an actor and currently assisting a few professional writers with some projects. So I'm doing both, for your information.

I could reply to the rest but I feel if I do then it'll be further driving this thread off track. You can hit up my inbox if you actually care for this conversation.
 
Look at all the fuss that was made with John Boyega in Star Wars. People were pissing their pants because 'OMG! There's a black man in Star Wars!' all because traditionally the franchise has always had a majority of white fans who unrealistically assumed that the Galaxy was Hitler's dream come true with nothing blue eyes and blonde hair.
Yet they tend to forget that Star Wars has always had black people in it. Just look at who voiced Darth Vader! And George Lucas is married to a black woman too. Irony.
 
Not but a few months back did someone on this very site state that they haven't been around many black people and thought that all black people were like in the movies.
Bless her soul.
 
Not but a few months back did someone on this very site state that they haven't been around many black people and thought that all black people were like in the movies. Thugs.
And you let it affect you why? This points back to my previous point. If you care so much about what someone says about non-whites, YOU have a problem as well. Not just the other person. You can always stop being so affected by people and stop being so neurotic. Plus that person you're talking about isn't on this site anymore (they got banned) so you probably should
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Freedom on Speech exists and it includes the right to offend. Shake it off and move on. Words only have as much power as you give them.

Also you neglect the fact that some stereotypes exist because they're TRUE. Granted they're mostly over-exaggerated but my point still stands. There ARE black thugs out there. Hell there are thugs of all races. Plus you do realize that some of those stereotypes you complain about when it comes to blacks in the media have been used by OTHER blacks? I mean it's not like films like Set It Off and Boyz In The Hood were directed by black people right? Or is it only ok when black people do it?

If you're not gonna complain about stereotypes for ALL races, you're a hypocrite. There is no "Stereotypes affect non-whites more". Doesn't work that way. Plus there are GOOD stereotypes out there and like someone said in a thread about stereotyping, getting rid of it can be seen as offensive. Stereotyping is a part of human nature. We're ALL guilty of it. That includes you. Stereotypes, just like words, only have as much power as you give them.

I've yet to see someone who actually thinks Italians eat, shit, and piss nothing but pasta.
And your experience doesn't mirror everyone else's now does it? Because I've seen MANY people stereotype Italians as short, Mafia, and pasta-eating people. So your point is null and void.

All I was saying was that it wasn't fair to say the situation didn't matter, because it does
How is it not fair? Where's your proof that it matters? Unless it revolves around actual facts (not warped stats meant to spread an agenda) and not your feelings, there's literally no proof that I can see. Just because it matters to you doesn't mean it has to matter to everyone else.
 
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Scarlett Johanssen has been chosen for the role obviously. Personally I think Rinko Kikuchi would've been a much better choice. This just seems like another lazy Hollywood live-action film based off of a foreign product and I have a feeling that it'll flop and end up like Dragon Ball Evolution, the live-action Tekken film, and The Last Airbender. Let's not forget the fact that the director's only credit is Snow White and The Huntsman.

Except Avatar: The Last Airbender was an American show created by Americans. There is no denying that it borrowed extensively from Asian cultures, but that is another thing.

The live action Last Airbender movie did, however, cause controversy when it cast white actors to play some of its main characters, especially ones that were clearly not white in the source material.

Another example being Benedict Cumberbatch, a white British man, playing one of the most prominent Asians in comics, Doctor Strange. While I do think he's great for the role (The same goes Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss Everdeen), it's still apart of a bigger issue. It's a representation issue that people are upset about. Media is influential on so many levels and frankly, white people will never what it's like to turn on the TV as a child and never see themselves, to only see racial stereotypes and have no one there to look up to. That's why people are fighting so hard on the issue every time it pops up. So to say it doesn't matter? That's thinking selfishly. It doesn't matter to you because it doesn't effect you or how people view your race. But for colored folks it does, and while there are bigger issues, that doesn't stop lack of representation from being a problem.

The character of Stephen Strange has always been a white man. Casting Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One on the other hand...
 
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Tilda Swinton is basically a fucking alien though, so that's like xenos representation or something.

Also Sacred, calm your tits and stop with the accusatory tone when you're discussing the issue. The only one not keeping this shit civil in here is you.
 
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Tilda Swinton is basically a fucking alien though, so that's like xenos representation or something.

Also Sacred, calm your tits and stop with the accusatory tone when you're discussing the issue. The only one not keeping this shit civil in here is you.

Sorry I'll be nicer
 
Also you neglect the fact that some stereotypes exist because they're TRUE.
Plus you do realize that some of those stereotypes you complain about when it comes to blacks in the media have been used by OTHER blacks? I mean it's not like films like Set It Off and Boyz In The Hood were directed by black people right? Or is it only ok when black people do it?
...Excuse me? At this point I'm inclined to believe you're trying to debate just for the sake of debating. I never stated stereotypes didn't form from some stem of truth nor did I ever mention the race of the directors or specific movies. I hate BET for being filled with negative stereotypes of black people. And most shit there, last I checked at least, was created by black people themselves. I've expressed this view before, in one of your own threads, so this is nothing new. I was talking about the effects of not having accurate representation of races (I.e Just people) with kids only seeing stereotypes of themselves as an example. It's damaging, it's a problem. If you want proof then you can look up numerous stories online of how lack of any decent representation has affected people of color. The world is at your fingertips man, literally.

But this is a thread about Ghost in the Shell and Scarlett Johansson, not black people and stereotypes, which is a whole different discussion. So to try and put this thread back on track, agree to disagree?
 
Her boobs aren't even that great....o.O Is that what all the fuss about her is?
You're focusing on the wrong area.

the Galaxy was Hitler's dream come true
Let's not forget that the Galaxy was kind of controlled by the Empire for 20 years who may or may not have been modelled off of Nazis. :3
 
You're focusing on the wrong area.


Let's not forget that the Galaxy was kind of controlled by the Empire for 20 years who may or may not have been modelled off of Nazis. :3
I don't check out chick butt. Boobs and face. :P Only guys' butts matter to me. >_>
 
I'm not sure about Japan, but in China, pretty much every beauty advertisement has a woman who lightens her skin to look more white, or there is a white woman on them. The Chinese fashion scene is also huge and if you ask why so much of it takes from Western designs and why they're not wearing more of their own culture, you will probably get the answer it's old-fashioned.

So, when you say Asian markets, I'm pretty sure there'd be demand for it just from China alone.

As for the topic. I love Ghost in the Shell, it's great. I don't particularly get why people are pissed about Hollywood being a business. Don't like it? Don't support it. Shrug and go watch the old thing for old times' sake. I think the Last Airbender is a great show with a shitty live action movie, but here's the funny thing. While I can vividly remember a lot of these great moments for the cartoon, I've already forgotten exactly what kind of movie it was I walked out of because... It was just a shitty movie. Who cares?

The more attention you give to something you hate, the more publicity you're giving it. How many people do you think bought the Twilight series just to see how horrible it was or they could be edgelords and burn it on video? Congrats, guess where that money went and guess with what message.

And I don't even know if this Ghost in the Shell movie will be bad. If it is, well, the major is still going to be pretty hot and you can crack jokes about it for a week or so and then get on with your life.

Ohwait. Trying to be reasonable.

Haha.

Ha.

I make the stupidest of mistakes.

I recall reading an article by a guy who lived in China as a teacher, and apparently being whitey makes you extremely popular and something of a status symbol where people want to be seen with a white person and will sometimes go so far as to keep buying them drinks and deferring to their judgement, even in things whitey has no experience in.

I'm not sure how true all of that is, but it marks the only time I've heard of one race and culture going out of their way to treat another extra nicely just because of their race. It's like bizzaro world racism, discriminating against them to show how much they love your pigment.

As for el casting thing, Hollywood's always casted white actors in movies set in locations with an entirely different ethnic make up. If the entirety of my knowledge of the Middle East came from movies, I'd assume a huge percentage of the people there were white with British accents. Hell, just look at Biblical films; Jesus, to my recollection, has never been cast as the Palestinian Jew the real Jesus almost certainly was. People, both sadly and hilariously, can't seem to accept that their savior was a guy who doesn't look just like Obi-Wan Kenobi because of course Jesus was a handsome Aryan type and not some guy who would probably fit the profile of the CIA's Al Qaeda shitlist these days.

So, yeah. Casting a white woman as a traditionally Japanese character is exactly the same as when Japan made a live action Attack on Titan movie where the entire cast was Japanese, and instead of being filled with Germans living in an 1800s style collection of cities and villages, it took place in a setting with modern apartment buildings and Hanje had a fucking Soviet made RPG-7.

Disregarding the fact that movie was horrible and I imagine Ghost in the Shell is going to be yet another big budget film that misses the mark worse than Ray Charles trying to become Banksy, the simple fact remains that audiences respond to people who look like them, and it's a lot easier to cast high profile actors from your country than head hunting globally. Hell, off the top of my head, Ben Kingsly was cast as fucking Ghandi and a Maori, and I know he's been cast as all sorts of non-white roles, yet people are less inclined to be outraged and instead drown him in academy awards. So an American made Ghost in the Shell movie has a white actress playing a non-white character. This is pretty much normal for Hollywood.

It's not right or wrong, and it's only been recently that I've really noticed people being critical of the whole whitewashing thing in Hollywood. I do think Hollywood should get its shit together and actually start looking for talent for roles that call for a certain race, but it should never be about filling a diversity quota. Yes, most film studios are owned and operated by white people in a predominantly white country, so of course they're going to have a bias. It happens literally anywhere in the world, and I can guarantee that in "Bollywood" (ugh, hate that term), they cast the shit out of their movies with Indian actors even in movies that take place in non-Indian settings, and China's the same way.

It is what it is, and progress is slow. If you don't like a movie's casting, don't go see it. Studios respond best when their multimillion dollar project isn't breaking even and then they go and try to find out why they flopped.

It's just important to keep objectivity in mind and not hate something just because the characters are white and "should be" diverse. I remember the stink when they cast Iron Fist as that Loras Tyrell guy and a bunch of people were freaking out that he should be Asian because his character is.

Only... Iron Fist is a white character, always has been. Misplaced outrage. That said, if they did cast Iron Fist as an Asian actor, that would be fine, too. Vast majority of character roles don't really require a specific race, and while you're always going to get bigots screaming about the casting (Remember the stink about there being a black Stormtrooper for The Force Awakens?), ultimately it doesn't matter most of the time. It should be somebody picked for their acting ability and understanding of that character, not their ethnicity unless the role specifically calls for it.

So, should Ghost in the Shell have cast a Japanese actress and an all Japanese cast? Maybe? I can see why people are annoyed by it, but this is hardly the first time this has happened. Who knows? Maybe Scarlett Johansen kills it as the protaganist and she just happened to be the best at the audition. Only thing is, sad to say, in a mostly white country, having accurate racial casting might alienate the general audience and not fill seats. People like what's familiar, and seeing advertisements for this niche Japanese movie probably would have a lot of people who don't know what GitS is raise an eyebrow at it and be like, "the fuck is this?"

We're a wonderfully (horribly) biased species. It's how we've always rolled, and always will. Even the most enlightened individual is likely to have irrational prejudices that they try to work past, say nothing of society as a whole.
 
Attack on Titan movie where the entire cast was Japanese, and instead of being filled with Germans living in an 1800s style collection of cities and villages, it took place in a setting with modern apartment buildings and Hanje had a fucking Soviet made RPG-7.
Sounds like a bad fan fiction...
 
I recall reading an article by a guy who lived in China as a teacher, and apparently being whitey makes you extremely popular and something of a status symbol where people want to be seen with a white person and will sometimes go so far as to keep buying them drinks and deferring to their judgement, even in things whitey has no experience in.
Well, I've worked in China for half a year and I can confirm this. Just being white, you can get a job standing in front of a club or bar and invite people in and get crazy money for it. Speaking of the clubbing scene, yes, many club owners or promoters will arrange free drinks if you visit them regularly and on occasion you get free beer or the Chinese version of a waterpipe from strangers just for the opportunity to say hi or play a game. Walking in a mall will have people whip out their phones and some will even walk up to you to ask for a picture together. When I decided it'd be funny to do some role reversal and walk up to a Chinese couple to make pictures of them without consent, they got super-excited and wanted to make pictures together and then we became friends on WeChat (all social media rolled into one tencent, largely government controlled app) which I can only presume they then showed off to all their friends.

However, on the flipside, you should be a lot more careful walking in the wrong neighbourhoods because of your skin, because violent racism is a thing too. While the dude from the article says the Chinese would often refer to their judgement, understand that in China people often verbally agree and then do something different, because they are afraid disagreement will result into conflict (basically, the Chinese value always staying in your 'centre' and excessive emotion is a disruption of this balance.) The Chinese are also very proud of their country and while they commonly like Western culture, they will never value it over their own identity as Chinese (and if you're an asshole looking for a fight, this is how you get into one.)
 
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This also happens if you're black in China...
 
According to friends of mine who've been to China they also have an obsession with tall people.
 
Well, I've worked in China for half a year and I can confirm this. Just being white, you can get a job standing in front of a club or bar and invite people in and get crazy money for it. Speaking of the clubbing scene, yes, many club owners or promoters will arrange free drinks if you visit them regularly and on occasion you get free beer or the Chinese version of a waterpipe from strangers just for the opportunity to say hi or play a game. Walking in a mall will have people whip out their phones and some will even walk up to you to ask for a picture together. When I decided it'd be funny to do some role reversal and walk up to a Chinese couple to make pictures of them without consent, they got super-excited and wanted to make pictures together and then we became friends on WeChat (all social media rolled into one tencent, largely government controlled app) which I can only presume they then showed off to all their friends.

However, on the flipside, you should be a lot more careful walking in the wrong neighbourhoods because of your skin, because violent racism is a thing too. While the dude from the article says the Chinese would often refer to their judgement, understand that in China people often verbally agree and then do something different, because they are afraid disagreement will result into conflict (basically, the Chinese value always staying in your 'centre' and excessive emotion is a disruption of this balance.) The Chinese are also very proud of their country and while they commonly like Western culture, they will never value it over their own identity as Chinese (and if you're an asshole looking for a fight, this is how you get into one.)

Thank you for the unique perspective! That's really fascinating, it's hard to imagine that kind of world unless you experience it first hand.
 
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