Rape Culture

[Brovo]

Ehhh'... No. Nobody is the winner here. Rape is a horrible crime and the fact that there's as much political bullshit around it as there is, is horrifying. It is something we need to research technological improvements on, because rape kits are flawed, and hundreds of thousands of them go untested every year. Both of those facts are just complete shithouse. More resources do genuinely need to be poured into sexual assault investigations. They're highly time sensitive, so the usual slow, plodding, "take your point in the queue" method of other crimes is not acceptable here. Same goes for arson.

Unfortunately, we'll never get to talk about actual, serious improvements to the system to help that 3% until certain hysterical nuts can be convinced to calm down about the other 22% of non-victims. We can be better than this. We can do better for rape victims, but we don't, because politics.

 

[SacredWarrior]

Ehhh'... No. Nobody is the winner here. Rape is a horrible crime and the fact that there's as much political bullshit around it as there is, is horrifying. It is something we need to research technological improvements on, because rape kits are flawed, and hundreds of thousands of them go untested every year. Both of those facts are just complete shithouse. More resources do genuinely need to be poured into sexual assault investigations. They're highly time sensitive, so the usual slow, plodding, "take your point in the queue" method of other crimes is not acceptable here. Same goes for arson.

Unfortunately, we'll never get to talk about actual, serious improvements to the system to help that 3% until certain hysterical nuts can be convinced to calm down about the other 22% of non-victims. We can be better than this. We can do better for rape victims, but we don't, because politics.

Yeah I was just saying that I agree with you ^^"

Speaking of rape kits, I'm from Memphis, TN and here we have SO MANY UNTESTED AND OLD RAPE KITS that it borders on embarrassing. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most PDs have to pay out of pocket just to get rape kits tested? The city or state should take care of that. In fact, they need to take care of ALL resources regarding sexual assault investigations.

Also rape is a very difficult crime to prove sadly. Without physical evidence, it's literally their word against the accused's. It's not what you know or feel. It's what you can prove in court.

 

[Brovo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most PDs have to pay out of pocket just to get rape kits tested?

Nope. They are publicly tested, but it's expensive to test them all. Publicly owned crime labs are struggling to keep up with the demand for all the other cases of DNA sampling (eg: murders, thefts, et cetera) so piling hundreds of thousands of rape kits on them is just completely impossible for them to keep up with right now. Read more here if you're really curious. They lack the personnel and they lack the resources to test them all, but certain locations are seriously trying (New York City for instance).

More attention needs to be put on this.

 

[Windsong]

Rape is bad. Women who use it to destroy a man's life are despicable. Men who do it are among the worst.

There is no culture of rape except the culture of IT'S FUCKING BAD. Unless you admit there's a culture of rape, murder, pedophilia, and other such atrocities that people actively defend beginning with an I.

 

[SacredWarrior]

Nope. They are publicly tested, but it's expensive to test them all. Publicly owned crime labs are struggling to keep up with the demand for all the other cases of DNA sampling (eg: murders, thefts, et cetera) so piling hundreds of thousands of rape kits on them is just completely impossible for them to keep up with right now. Read more here if you're really curious. They lack the personnel and they lack the resources to test them all, but certain locations are seriously trying (New York City for instance).

More attention needs to be put on this.

Damn it. Seriously why isn't anyone donating money to getting more rape kits tested? In fact, why are crime labs publicly owned in the first place? Shouldn't they be privatized?

 

[Hecatoncheires]

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I probably shouldn't have laughed at that, but I did.

 

[Brovo]

Damn it. Seriously why isn't anyone donating money to getting more rape kits tested? In fact, why are crime labs publicly owned in the first place? Shouldn't they be privatized?

Do you really want crime labs to be owned by people who care more about a profit margin than the search for truth? Cuz' that's why they're publicly owned.

There are people donating money to the cause, just... There isn't nearly enough awareness for it. That's all. Could probably put marketing dollars to that instead of the "he for she" campaign, but, fearmongering is a more effective political tactic to get yourself elected to office.

 

[SacredWarrior]

Do you really want crime labs to be owned by people who care more about a profit margin than the search for truth? Cuz' that's why they're publicly owned.

There are people donating money to the cause, just... There isn't nearly enough awareness for it. That's all. Could probably put marketing dollars to that instead of the "he for she" campaign, but, fearmongering is a more effective political tactic to get yourself elected to office

Oh world why must you be so cruel and terrible?!!

 

[K3l]

 

[Cpt Toellner]

You realize negative behavior like that only fuels these threads right? Like, if you support people telling there opinions in a kind and understanding manner you might not have to worry about these threads getting out of hand.

Instead you expect thes things to be bad even when they are very civilized and do nothing but fill everything with anxiety and spite. Notice how many of these threads will go along just fine until staff members rush in and get people riled up, causing the staff to lock the thread instead of resolving the problem.

I'm asking, please, cut this shit out.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

I mean, I can just scream hysterically instead if that works better for people.

 

[Brovo]

I mean, I can just scream hysterically instead if that works better for people.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion, don't say a thing. Regular members shouldn't have to tell a moderator these things.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I don't think there's too much issue. We all know rape happens. I highly doubt there's going to be someone who jump on here saying that rape doesn't exist, and it's not a problem.

 

[York]

Personally, I feel these sorts of issues would be better adressed if people in general, are better informed of the overall statistics... It feels like there's a bit of a cognitive dissonance going on at times where, one may apply what they have experienced in their current area, to what experiences in the rest of say, a country is... And, well, while it feels natural to do so, sometimes it's beneficial to look at the bigger picture I guess :S though I do understand how one may form their stance based on what they've seen around them, which, well... To be fair, I have also been guilty of :P so... I guess it's something we all still need to work on >.< anyways, while I may say that rape culture is less prominent, and, well, can frankly be blown out of proportion, I do agree that rape does indeed happen, regardless of gender, however... In order to properly address it, one must cast aside their emotions to some degree, and deal with this sort of thing logically... Knee jerk reactions to accusations before a proper conclusion (and well, all the details) are reached just simply won't do :S in general, it should be encouraged to seek out all the details of such events before reaching a "final" conclusion... At least in this way, one can properly address cases of rape, sexual assault, etc, and deal with it in a more... Civilized manner. After all, while there's men (and women) out there who are twisted enough to rape others, or falsely accuse others of such, there are numerous more people (to my knowledge) that recognize this as a problem, and are actively trying to resolve this. Er... Sorry if I come off as trying to dismiss anything >.< each to their own I guess, but, well, that's my two cents on all of this :S

 

[Robeatics]

I won't even get started on trying to change the definition of rape and the whole Teach Men Not To Rape thing.

Be civil, leave your emotions at the door (logic triumphs and if you rage, you lose automatically and your opinion is null and void), and take something to PM if you're so bothered by different opinions and different mindsets. Or you could leave.

Please, elaborate on why the "Teach Men Not To Rape thing" is bad.

I think people have every right to get emotional over this sort of topic. You don't know how it's affected them personally. Arbitrarily voiding opinions for that reason is kinda just as shitty as voiding them because of race, gender or orientation, isn't it?

I don't think the issue in this thread has anything to do with whether or not rape happens. It does, we can agree on that. What I see in too many of my peers is this idea that people bring assault down on themselves by not keeping their guard up at all times. That's rape culture.

I knew a kid in sophomore year who told me with certainty that if he had the chance to rape a drunk girl at a party, he'd do it, because she'd be at fault for getting drunk. And how many atheletes and high-profile people have we heard of, who have with little doubt raped people, who are treated almost sympathetically by the media? Need I mention Bill Cosby, Woody Allen, Rick James, and others?

 

[Jorick]

Rape culture is a real thing. Is it a real thing in countries like the United States though? Ehhhh. I'd say that boils down to how you define the term. When I think of the term "rape culture" it sounds like a culture where rape is excused or glorified regularly and rapists aren't usually punished much for raping someone. That seems to be the case in some countries in the Middle East and Africa, and probably some elsewhere that I just haven't heard of being shitty about dealing with rape, but that's not at all the case in the US or Canada or the UK or similar places. All you've got to do to disprove that kind of rape culture in those countries is look at how rapists are actually prosecuted (yeah, not as frequently as would be preferred, but it still actually happens and convicted rapists are given some severe punishments) and look at how the mere accusation of rape can destroy a man's life regardless of how any criminal charges turn out. That just does not mesh with the idea of excusing or glorifying rape.

However, there are other definitions out there that say things like suggesting women learn self defense to fight off an attempted rapist is part of rape culture, or saying that drunken sex between two drunk people is just a regrettable encounter rather than rape is part of rape culture, or that people trying to make date rape drug detecting tools is victim blaming and part of rape culture, or that catcalling is part of rape culture, and so on. These definitions are ones I find silly, so I discount them in general. None of those things make rape more acceptable or prevalent (especially the ones that are meant to actively prevent rape), so anyone who declares them to be part of a rape culture is, frankly speaking, fucking retarded.

Please, elaborate on why the "Teach Men Not To Rape thing" is bad.

I've seen lots of people talk about not liking this kind of thing. I'll list off the most common objections I can recall.

It implies that men have no morals and are rapists by default.
It implies that only men commit rape.
It implies that rapists just don't know any better. Following that, it gives rapists another avenue of defense: "I didn't know it was wrong, nobody ever told me that was a bad thing."

The main problem here is that those promoting the idea of teaching men not to rape tend to have a very difference concept in their mind than what most people think when they hear that suggestion. What most people think of when the topic or rape comes up is the most severe form of it: the kind where a woman is attacked out of nowhere in a public area by some random asshole they have no connection to. When that's your go-to image of rape, "teach men not to rape" gets translated into "teach men not to go out and assault and violate random women on the street." If you explain to them that the actual intent is to teach about things like what actually constitutes consent, what sort of things can make someone legally incapable of providing consent, how pressuring someone into sex with non-physical means can still be rape, how something can still be rape even if the person consented to the same thing at another time, how spousal rape is a real thing, and so on, the same people who fly off the handle with rage at the "teach men not to rape" idea will usually chill out and agree that those are things that are worth teaching (though they might still argue that targeting just men with these lessons is not cool, and that's a fair point since women don't just automatically know all this stuff). It's largely an issue of shitty phrasing and poor PR.

 

[Mid]

Just gonna...leave this here, mk?

Group behind 'make rape legal' message cancels events nationwide, including in Utah

 

[Brovo]

Please, elaborate on why the "Teach Men Not To Rape thing" is bad.

Because of the following.

1. It assumes that women don't rape, or at the very least don't need to be taught not to rape, in spite of thousands of cases of female-initiated rape per year.
2. It assumes that all men do rape, and need to be taught (at a college age no less) not to rape. As though they've grown up their entire lives simply, somehow believing that rape is at all an acceptable behaviour.
3. It wastes the time of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who don't need to be taught not to rape, so that the few people who would actually rape someone can be told not to rape... Then ignore it and rape people anyway.
4. Rapists rape people even if you tell them not to rape. In the same way murderers murder people even if you tell them not to murder people. I mean, more women murder their children than men: Should we have a "teach women not to murder their own children" campaign?

And that's just off the top of my head. If you have to have a general sexual education course, that's fine. Hell, I'd argue that the first world in general (though especially the USA) does a shithouse job of teaching sex ed in public schools, so having a mandatory course for it in uni probably doesn't hurt.

I think people have every right to get emotional over this sort of topic. You don't know how it's affected them personally. Arbitrarily voiding opinions for that reason is kinda just as shitty as voiding them because of race, gender or orientation, isn't it?

Emotions are fine. I can get quite passionate about things myself. Hell, I loathe rape, it's one of the most heinous and disgusting things a human can do to another human. I would quite happily turn a blind eye to let a child rapist get gangfucked to death in a prison cell if I could... However, if we lose our objectivity in a discussion, our civility, then we've lost any ability to preserve a coherent and reasonable conversation. It's okay to hurt, it's okay to cry, it's okay to get angry. It's not okay to lose control and take out your emotions on other people. Which is what OP was asking for, I think, in a not so eloquent way.

I don't think the issue in this thread has anything to do with whether or not rape happens. It does, we can agree on that. What I see in too many of my peers is this idea that people bring assault down on themselves by not keeping their guard up at all times. That's rape culture.

Well shit then we have a murder culture too. I sure as shit would not wear a business suit and expect to survive in some gang neighbourhoods. I'd be called a fuckin' idiot for that, nobody calls a rape victim an idiot who isn't a reviled asshole. I've never met anyone in person who blamed rape victims for being raped. The most I've ever seen is a couple of them trying to think of ways to help prevent rape on the part of the victims. (Like that women should probably carry around tasers/mace, because you can't rape shit if your eyes feel like they're on fire, or if your body is convulsing on the floor.) Do assholes who blame rape victims for being raped exist? Yes. They do. Just like assholes who blame people for pretty much any downfall exist. It's classic snobbery and lack of empathy rolled into one. Punishing everyone for the words of those assholes though? That ain't right. In the same way that we shouldn't punish all feminists for the loud shouty mad fucker minority that are man haters in the extreme.

I knew a kid in sophomore year who told me with certainty that if he had the chance to rape a drunk girl at a party, he'd do it, because she'd be at fault for getting drunk.

Do you really think he wouldn't rape someone if he was just told not to do so by some 40-something overweight woman talking about the consequences of rape? He already is aware that it's illegal. If he'd rape someone anyway and blame it on them, he's beyond salvation, and no amount of "teach men not to rape" will stop that particular person from raping anyone.

Some people are just sick fucks who abuse the freedoms we all have to do terrible things to other people. They've existed since the dawn of time and will continue to exist until the last human life is extinguished. Ain't no changing that.

And how many atheletes and high-profile people have we heard of, who have with little doubt raped people, who are treated almost sympathetically by the media? Need I mention Bill Cosby, Woody Allen, Rick James, and others?

And for every case of a celebrity doing dumb or heinous fucking shit and getting sympathy for it (which happens for every crime on Earth), there's also cases of absolute nobodies having their lives completely ruined by false accusations and trigger happy journalists. The media in general is fucking horrible, but pointing them out as a symptom of rape culture is absurd. It's not rape culture: It's celebrity idolatry taken way too far, way too regularly. If it's rape culture, it's also false report culture. Hell, since you brought up the personal anecdote about hearing a kid say he'd rape someone, hear my story.

A lady in the high school I went to during my senior year became obsessed with me. She ended up sending me over five hundred text messages detailing how she was going to kill herself if I didn't love her, and how I had to love her, or else. Among the "or else" threats, included false rape accusations. Luckily, I managed to avoid the bullet, because someone else she was obsessing over harder she made false rape accusations about instead. They were immediately terminated from their part time job without compensation, even though it never went to court. It was literally one of the most terrifying experiences I've ever had in my entire life, because it is entirely impossible to prove your own innocence. There is always reasonable doubt. If she had ultimately chosen to go all the way in pursuing me, I wouldn't be here right now. I would more than likely be fighting off a false rape accusation to my name, and be unemployable anywhere.

Never assume that anyone is telling the truth in these cases until it can be proven in some way. Yes, that means the bad guys sometimes win, they sometimes walk. Murderers, rapists, arsonists, thieves--they sometimes get away with it. But I would prefer that, over a world in which women have the unlimited and unilateral power to always be believed due to a rape culture that the vast majority do not follow or agree with, to instantly terminate the employment of any man they wish by simply crying out "rape."

Normally I'd use a ferret right about now, but this is gravely serious, so, sadly, no ferret.

Just gonna...leave this here, mk?

Group behind 'make rape legal' message cancels events nationwide, including in Utah

SALT LAKE CITY -- A group calling themselves "Return of Kings" that has come under fire for a message that some say advocates for rape has canceled a series of meetings scheduled around the nation after public backlash.

The general public did not want this at all. That should speak volumes by itself.

 

[Mid]

@Brovo I just meant to add to the idea that there is a mindset of people (small or otherwise) who believe in this, even if they aren't willing to speak up. They exist. That was all, :3.