Fantasy is my #1; I will give almost anything a chance if it has strong fantasy elements. Post apocalyptic, superhero, alternate history, science fantasy, some supernatural, romance, and a few fandoms (especially Game of Thrones) are also likely to catch my eye.
I don't think the Quran itself says to kill gay people. The worst I recall finding was repeated mention of homosexuality being a sin and one instance of what seemed to be people stoning a guy to death for being gay. However, some of the Hadith (writings that are second only to the Quran in authority of establishing law and rules of the Islamic faith) do say it explicitly, and given their level of authority in the religion it's almost the same as the Quran saying it.
I don't usually get into religious talks on the forum and I don't plan to. The only reason I brought it up was because the word 'specifically' was used when I know for a fact that it isn't mentioned in the Quran. So while a Hadith is close to Quran, it isn't the same.
tl;dr: It's complicated and depends which sect of Islam one is talking about.
ISLAM 101 (Muslims, feel free to correct me if I fuck up somewhere. Your religion is fascinating and I am striving to understand it better, but the terminology is thicker than an average Trekkie convention.)
There are issues translating certain terminology from the native language into English, which results in having to learn a host of new terminology. (Like halal and haram. The former is permissible, the latter is forbidden.) I'm still trying to get my hands on an English-translated Quran to read for myself, but until that happens, take most of what you see on the Internet and in news media with a grain of salt. In fact, take it with an entire tablespoon of salt, left-wing or right-wing. For instance, there's rarely ever any dissemination made between the various sects of Islam. So I'll try to explain what I know. (Again, though, my knowledge isn't fantastic--I'm still working on it.)
Islam is spread out into multiple interpretations, much like Christianity has Protestants and Catholics, Islam has Sunnis and Shias. However, just like how Christianity has schisms within Protestantism, and the Orthodox church, and it just gets more complicated from there, Islam has the same issue going for it.
Within the Sunni branch there's two more descendants known as Wahhabism (which dominates Saudi Arabia), and Salafism. These are the branches of Islam that tend to be the generators of extremely violent, disturbing, fucked up content. You can compare them to Christianity's inquisitors or Teutonic Knights. They take the book to be a literal interpretation, inspired by their God, and that everything in the book--even the contradictions or statements made within a specific time period which make no sense today--must be adhered to. Salafism in particular is what produces the majority of ISIS and Al Quaeda recruits, followed next by Wahhabism.
To give you an idea of how massive Islam is, it represents approximately 23% of the planet's population. Every 1-in-4 to 1-in-5 people is a Muslim. As a result you'll find that how Islam is interpreted, how the book is read, and so on, changes from location to location, from sect to sect. Like North American Muslims are the most likely to adopt Western clothing, Western products, Western humanitarian ideals. This is important to note, because Salafists (and to a lesser extent Wahhabists) honestly don't think of most Muslims in North America as Muslims; they think of them as black sheep, as heretics. (Which, tl;dr: A heathen is a non-believer, a heretic is someone who perverts the faith. Generally.)
This is important because one of the cardinal sins of Islam (one of its seven sins dejour) is that one cannot kill another believer, ever. So regardless of how the rest of the book goes, one of its most critically stressed points is that believer shall not kill believer. Yet, the highest fatality rate among ISIS terrorist attacks are other Muslims.
What Salafism is trying to do is bring about the end times. ISIS honestly believes that if it can convince Rome and the Western World to come and attack them, that at the last minute when all hope is lost, Allah will come down and sweep the world clean of filth, Relevations-style, and that those who fought to the end in his name, will be given the greatest rewards in the afterlife.
Basically, Salafism is the crazy psychotic neighbour who actually does want to stone his neighbour for working on a Sunday.
Now where does Wahhabism come into this?
Well, Wahhabism is the dominant strain of Sunni in Saudi Arabia. This is important to note because the royalty themselves are Wahhabist. They are, however, very shitty Muslims. They commit haram all the time. So they deport most of the uglier people that might strive to destroy them, and fund them to go wreak havoc somewhere else. The majority of wahhabists support ideas like cutting off the hands of thieves, and stoning rape victims to death. They're not pleasant people.
That being said, there are strains of Islam far less prone to violence, and far more prone to interpretations of their work that inspire peace and love as opposed to violence. Sufis for instance tend not to want war, they tend to detest it, and are often persecuted by other, more extreme Muslims groups. The reason being is that Sufis are generally anti-materialist, they look for spiritual perfection and care little for whoever rules over them, so long as they're allowed to practice their ways in peace.
Beyond that, it gets complicated beyond my ability to give an educated opinion, and turns extremely political. So I'll end it here on this note: The groups within Islam we need to focus on the most are Salafism and Wahhabism. They're the sects that generate the crazy murderers in overwhelming numbers, and supply ISIS with troops and supplies and funding.
EDIT
As for specific quotes about gays, here you go.
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction. (Inexplicably, the story is also repeated in suras 15:74, 27:58 and 29:40).
Quran (7:81) - "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being "among great sins."
Quran (26:165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"
Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone" This is the Yusuf Ali translation. The original Arabic does not use the word "men" and simply says "two from among you." Yusuf Ali may have added the word "men" because the verse seems to refer to a different set than referred to in the prior verse (explicitly denoted as "your women"). In other words, since 4:15 refers to "your women", 4:16 is presumably written to and refers to men.
Interestingly, the same rules don't seem to apply in paradise, where martyrs for the cause of Allah enjoy an orgy of virgins and "perpetual youth" Quran (56:17) (interpreted by many to mean"boys"Quran (52:24)).
Quran (76:19) bluntly states, "And immortal boys will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls." Technically, the mere presence of boys doesn't necessarily mean sex, however it is strongly implied from the particular emphasis on the effeminacy, handsomeness and "freshness" of the boys. The female virgins of paradise are also compared to pearls (56:23).
The Bible has nasty shit to say about gays too before anyone jumps down my throat. It's just good to clarify and point out that these things do exist and should be acknowledged, so they can be dealt with. So we can figure out who our friends and enemies are in the fight against hate, intolerance, and death.
EDIT #2
Also, going way off topic, my bad. Just figured I'd clear the air and go "it's not all Muslims, here's the sects that are overwhelmingly responsible, educate yourselves." Cuz' I'm tired of reading this stuff, and seeing some people aren't joking about all Muslims doing this or that or Islamaphobia or so on.
@Brovo I am a Muslim. However, I do not really discuss religion on public forums. *Shrug* I will say one thing though, translation reading for Quran isn't enough, because many passages have history behind them that needs to be read and understood.
I'm not very educated myself, but there are some things I do know. I just dislike discussing my beliefs in a place I come to have fun and banter ^_^'
Also, going way off topic, my bad. Just figured I'd clear the air and go "it's not all Muslims, here's the sects that are overwhelmingly responsible, educate yourselves." Cuz' I'm tired of reading this stuff, and seeing some people aren't joking about all Muslims doing this or that or Islamaphobia or so on.
@Brovo I am a Muslim. However, I do not really discuss religion on public forums. *Shrug* I will say one thing though, translation reading for Quran isn't enough, because many passages have history behind them that needs to be read and understood.
I'm not very educated myself, but there are some things I do know. I just dislike discussing my beliefs in a place I come to have fun and banter ^_^'
Well you have my eminent respect then. I apologize for assuming your beliefs without asking. Thank you for your immeasurable amount of patience and seemingly endless amount of optimism during these times.
You're a human being. We're all human beings. Tall or short, white or black, atheist or Christian or Muslim. We're all born into unfair lives. It's on us to make the world a better place, to make it a wonderful adventure, to ensure the next generation lives with more than they could have ever dreamed.
Sometimes people get scared and forget to remember that. Sometimes people get angry, they want to find something to blame for why the world is unfair. For why evil exists. For why suffering is there. They want an easy answer. A catch-all. When the reality is that there is no such cure, it's part of the human condition. We live with pain, for whatever reason that may be.
Besides. To me, my perspective is but one colour. I can paint many things with that colour, perhaps even beautiful things... But paintings are always better when you have more colours. More perspectives. That which is different is neither right nor wrong, it merely is--and the way it expresses itself? Can show me things I would have never seen before. The way one colour might show in the dark where another might not, or where one colour might shine in the light where another would falter and fade away.
You will always be a human being to me. It doesn't matter what you are what you believe, it matters who you are. And Greenie, you're an especially pleasant, patient, and sickeningly optimistic person. So if I can convince just maybe... One more person to not fear you for what you are, I think that's a job well done.
Now, I'm gonna go and finish writing my RP posts and have fun. I think my players are getting tired of me being all preachy. Take care, Greenie.
"...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.
"Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being "among great sins."
"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"
I would just like to point out that I am not de-railing, but, in response to Greenie, the Quran is pretty much filled to the brim of homophobia, hate speech and just obvious arrogant remarks. The bible is . . . more mild, but let's be honest, nobody reads the bible that identifies as a Christian nowadays. Sodom and Gomorrah was a hatespeech crime performed by "god" one of the reasons behind it, stated in the bible was because . . . gay people lived in that particular part of the world . . .?
20:13 Leviticus 20 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.mce-anchor
Hi, I would just like to remind everyone to remain respectful towards other beliefs and lack thereof. No hate speech is tolerated on Iwaku. Thank you :)
Ok, I gave in. I haven't read almost any of the responses, but I'll chime in anyway.
Parts of the Bible may be considered homophobic. However, quite a few people forget, and quite a few Christians as well, that the Bible is meant to Contrast Jesus. Jesus is the son of God, and the example for all Christians on how to live. We are meant to be striving to live as he did. The Bible is meant to be as blunt and straightforward as possible. When telling historical accounts, meant to tell them bluntly as well.
What people tend to forget and overlook, is that Christians are meant to take the knowledge and wisdom from the Bible, and incorporate into our lives. That is why Jesus is our example on how to live. You may not believe that Jesus is the son of God, but most people will agree that Jesus was an amazing person. He incorporated all of the Bible into how he lived. He never hated, discriminated, or really did anything negative. People often choose to follow just the Bible and use it negatively, where as Jesus showed us how all the beliefs are meant to be incorporated.
Christians are supposed to strive to be like Jesus. Many just don't do it properly and it end up being hateful. I try to incorporate all of the Bible into my life, and live like Jesus did.
A lot of Christians don't use Jesus's example on how to live with the biblical principles and it ends up being negative. I use him as the example for everything. To put it bluntly, I think homosexuality is "wrong". But you will never see me condemn, hate, discriminate, or act negatively in any way to anyone that is homosexual. That isn't what Jesus would have done. It isn't what I will do. I respect their choice, and don't think any less of anyone. They are equal to me. I am no better and shall not act like I'm better. I love everyone.
Well... we've totally gone off to- Oh someone beat me to it.
My opinion on BLM and Police have pretty much be said by other people already.
I think BLM is a movement that may have started with some good intentions but has since grown and evolved into something far less noble than maybe they intended or they portray it to be. That being said I'm talking about a movement, not individuals.
As for the police, I think they have hard jobs that requires hard choices. They are people therefore; make mistakes. But it's also true that as police they should be making fewer mistakes than others, because of the severity of the consequences of their mistakes, and there should be consequences for making those mistakes. I also think there are legitimate questions and concerns where the police are concerned; thinks like proper use of force, militarization of police, institutionalized racism, and other more nitty-gritty details I'm even less informed about. That being said I think the police do get too much flak for doing their jobs.
Is Islam homophobic? Dunno. Don't know a tonne about it to be honest, so I don't have any confidence talking on the subject. I should fix that someday.
Is the bible homophobic? Depend's upon personal/denominational interpretation. People can say that the bible is simple and you just read it and take it at face value, but that's a very simple/black-and-white view. Christianity has fought over how to interpret the bible (and Jesus for that matter) for millennia.
I know LGBT Christians and churches that are LGBT-affirming, but I also know there are plenty of hate spewing Christians. So is it homophobic? Depends upon the person who's reading it, because they are filtering it with their own perception.
Nothing ever goes according to plan in General Discussion. Just so long as the dark topic does not come up though, everything should be fine. (Seriously though--sorry about derailing your thread.)
Apparently, a peaceful cook-off between a group of BLM activists and police officers that resulted in loads of people getting fed and peace being established/tensions decreased is "not a reflection of BLM principles" from the official BLM feed.
BLM is ridiculous. This is meme-worthy. "Engaging in a BBQ with Police is not a reflection of our principles." Christ. Why don't they just come out as an anarchist association already.
Fantasy is my #1; I will give almost anything a chance if it has strong fantasy elements. Post apocalyptic, superhero, alternate history, science fantasy, some supernatural, romance, and a few fandoms (especially Game of Thrones) are also likely to catch my eye.
All this chatter about shit going sideways in the thread is just as much a derailment as the previous topic change, and it's spam as well. Keep the shitposting to the Asylum thread or to others tagged Random. :P
I'm fairly sure this is illegal, yet I'm betting none of those people will be prosecuted. Seriously their stupidity is becoming a daily occurrence at this point, this is ridiculous.
((Last attempt at dragging this thread back on-topic.))
((Edit: Should be noted that this was both an anti-trump and BLM rally. Because intersectionality is a great idea.))
Apparently, a peaceful cook-off between a group of BLM activists and police officers that resulted in loads of people getting fed and peace being established/tensions decreased is "not a reflection of BLM principles" from the official BLM feed.
