Police in the US

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Nater Taters, Jul 18, 2016.

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  1. Hello there.

    As many of you know, the recent shootings of a Mr. Alton Stirling, and Philando Castille has disturbed the already uneasy relations the Police have with US communities. Couple that with the shooting in Dallas, and you have some serious trouble.

    So what do all of you fine folks think of this?, should those officers be tried for the shooting of Alton Stirling and Philando Castille? Do you think officers should use deadly force? Should the Police dept in that community do a better job of building relations with said community?

    What about BLM? Are they right? Are they misguided? Do their complaints hold merit?

    Fell free to share you're thoughts and feelings, but be sure to keep it civil :)
  2. Well... this is going to go swimmingly.
  3. Indeed
  4. ...... Not gonna lie. Real ironic that your picture is from a game where shootouts with the cops are a common thing.
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  5. These are my overall feelings on the whole police thing.

    As for BLM:

    These videos pretty much reflect my overall thoughts on BLM. They can go jump into the Mississippi River.
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  6. Hi, this is Tai.

    I would just like to chip in and say that the news enjoys sensationalizing things to the point that it is required to ignore certain things. I just found it very strange that when I look back on the news that I have only come across (for the sake of not having to be politically correct by saying African Americans . . . I am not racist.) black people being called on Skype, Black people being called on the phone and then you have a black officer saying prayers on the news. (The religiously secular news.) and all of the crimes being reported on the news are soley based on black people being shot for unknown reasonings until these reasonings are spilled out later the following days.

    So to put this into better perspective:

    -One google search later-

    A Texas White Man Just Got In A Shootout With Cops. Guess How It Ended... - This wasn't on the news

    This wasn't in the news. How is this not in the news? This guy going berserk, throwing stuff at people and cussing them out. Proceeding to draw attention to himself for police, shooting a shotgun and wounding an officer. Seven shots fired- this is a literla circus but it wouldn't draw as much attention as a black person being shot. (Because it is a lot easier to hype things up about a black man being shot compared to a white man, only recently have black people received equal rights, which is really disturbingly close to around the time I was born, 1996.)

    Here’s How Many People Police Killed In 2015

    The websites I am using have sourced information if you feel as though the information may be tampered, I am not certain if it is entirely true though. However, based on people killed by police . . . why aren't people flipping couches over white people being shot? Every black man shot 2 white men are shot, every asian shot is supposedly equal to 3 white men being shot . . . strange because prisons hold widely black people however white people are being shot more.

    I honestly don't know what to make of this, I know that I couldn't care less until I know the entire story, what I do care about is what other people are thinking and believing about on the news though.
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    1. I don't know enough about these particular cases to judge properly. I would argue everyone can have an opinion on these cases, but not much beyond that.
    2. Yes, officers should use deadly force if suspects do not cooperate and pose a danger either to the officers or to others around them.
    3. I'm gonna put a big ole' "it's complicated" sticker on this one. The city only has about 400,000 people in it and yet it has ghettos and tourist warnings. Philando Castille was pulled over 31 times and charged with 63 different offenses, including some drug-related. Alton Sterling* (please spell his name correctly in the future) had prior violent offenses and a 2009 conviction of carrying a firearm while in possession of drugs. The 2009 charge also includes resisting arrest. It's not like these two "random victims of violence" didn't have a history with the police. Albeit Philando Castille did not have any serious criminal convictions on record--so his case looks like racial profiling 101. (Seriously? 63 offenses and not one serious?!?) So my feelings are mixed. I would lean toward "yes, they should work on their behaviour, it's disgraceful" but at the same time, they are dealing with ghetto culture.
    Whatever it is BLM is supposed to do, they aren't helping. Over the months they've been an organization I've gone from sympathizing with them, to disliking them, to becoming frightened by them. From telling a black rights activist from the 60's that they would be happy to see him hang from a KKK cross, to BLM hijacking the Toronto Pride Paraide after being given special status, to interrupting the Orlando Vigil to spew their politics and brow-beat mourners into joining their cause.

    They honestly frighten me. They've grown more extreme over the months they've existed. They don't have clearly achievable objectives. The civil rights movement of the 60's had clear objectives, like equality under the law. What the fuck does BLM actually want to achieve? They don't have any list of coherent objectives on their official website. They want to blame the state for all the problems present in the black community, but they don't have any actual solutions to these that are even somewhat reasonable. For instance: When they hijacked the Pride Parade in Toronto, one of their demands was to remove all police officers from future parades. That's a decision that Pride itself can't actually make, they don't have that authority. BLM is targeting and bullying groups that have no political power whatsoever, to enforce political changes. Political changes, that, I might add, would create an anarchist state. This makes no sense. This is incoherent. This is just babbling rage and hatred toward the police because fuck the police I guess.

    Which is also hypocritical and self-destructive. The greatest force from the 60's onwards that has helped to mend and cure police brutality was hiring more black police officers. Yet BLM cheered gleefully when police officers--who moved in to saved innocent people from the Dallas shooter--were shot and killed. Including a black police officer. If all police officers are responsible for the crimes of the racist few within, shouldn't BLM also be responsible for the fact that 14% of the population commits almost 50% of the murders?

    I mean, my view is also coloured by the fact that BLM is bringing a hatred and resentment of cops up here in Canada. I don't see why. I don't see the fucking point why. Police relations with common people here--gay, straight, white, black, aboriginal--they're pretty good everywhere except on native reservations, in which things get too complicated for me to briefly explain here. Yet BLM is bringing a hatred of police officers here. And I do mean an absolute fucking hatred of them, where they want to see them murdered and shoved out of any and all social events BLM is part of. (Or, which BLM hijacks.) For fucks sake, most of the prominent members of BLM are middle to upper class Americans with college educations who have likely never once had any opportunities denied to them because of being black, and who have likely never lived a single day in the ghetto. Yet they deign to speak on behalf of all black people everywhere.

    There is police brutality in some American districts, of that I have no doubt. There are absolutely cases where a police officer murders someone out of spite or hatred in the US. There does need to be more done to fix this problem.

    However, BLM is not the solution. BLM is a thinly veiled hate organization that is one step away from becoming the next KKK, or Black Panthers. To tl;dr why I don't like them...
    1. They have no constructive objectives. They don't present any solutions to any problems they bring up.
    2. They advocate for the total removal of police officers wherever they grow, and they intend to grow everywhere. This would essentially create an anarchist state.
    3. They cheer on the deaths of police officers.
    4. They accuse blacks who refuse to join them of being race traitors, like uncle toms from the 60's.
    5. They dehumanize other racial groups who they sincerely believe cannot mentally comprehend their problems, then demand that said racial groups understand their problems.
    6. The majority of those at the top of the organization are middle to upper class 20-somethings and 30-somethings who had fully paid for college tuitions by their parents. In other words, they have likely never experienced any of the issues they are claiming to fight for.
    7. They honestly push the intersectionality nonsense that services nothing more than to label, stamp, and number individual people into boxes, thus silencing anyone who may have good points that is "privileged."
    8. They're spreading hatred and intolerance of police officers into other places--outright other countries--where it does not belong, makes no sense, and only services to create tension where none existed before.
    9. They've repeatedly hijacked LGBT events, including the mourning of a mass shooting. I actually care about the LGBT community--it's important to me. So to see another group attempt to hijack it, blackmail it, and attack it by pulling the race card, fucking infuriates me.
    10. They !@#$ing hijacked a mourning event after a mass shooting for political gains. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
    Seriously. Something needs to get done about the brutal rate of black deaths in the US, but BLM is not the solution. If they got their way, it would only get worse... Whatever their way fucking is, because they don't seem to have any coherent list of achievable objectives anywhere and get offended when asked about it.


    Related to how this thread is gonna go.
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  7. The news is a useful way to look at the world through an ideological lens, but rarely does it present the whole truth. Think for yourself.
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  8. Did you hear about the petition to have the White House recognize them as a terrorist organization?

    Happened to me too many times. I thought black lives mattered? Guess not. Only black lives BLM gives a shit about are the ones that follow their bullshit.

    White people.

    That just screams anti-LGBT to me. Another reason to hate them.
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  9. Well, I think I'll drop my two cents.
    First off, I'd like to point out that it is not a Police Department's duty to uphold community relations. Now, don't misunderstand. While they are not required to, it would be foolish for them to not, as better Public Relations usually means less riots and various other dissenters. They don't HAVE to, but they SHOULD.

    Second off, I feel that this question:
    Is a tad bit loaded. I feel that they SHOULD be tried, simply off the principle that nobody is above the law. At the same time, however, due to the circumstances surrounding these events (mostly due to the sensationalism in the media and the race-charging by various groups), no jury would be unbiased in this case, and wouldn't simply keep the objective truths of the case in mind. While this could be said for any case, it is especially apparent in these types of supposed racially-fueled, overblown cases. And unfair trials are not the correct path to proper justice.

    Thirdly, the question of whether or not a policeman should use deadly force is a moot question that is simply answered by "It depends". While most circumstances usually do not require deadly force, the ones that do require them immediately in a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality, as most of those situations are or can be seen as life-or-death, where if one stops to warn or otherwise think through the possibilities in a situation, the officer or those around him could end up dead or gravely wounded.

    On the matter of Black Lives Matter, I do not believe they have the common people's interests in mind, and their entire movement is seemingly based off a hate-propagating and misguided idea of "the ends justify the means". While sometimes this can be true, in this case neither their ends nor their means are justifiable in any way if one uses any amount of sound logic and reasoning. It's a crowd mentality echochamber designed to fuel, self-justify, and spout a hypocritically racist and anarchistic sentiment. Any type of movement that follows this type of mentality is dangerous, not only to themselves, but to others as well. This can be seen in many examples in history, such as Nazi Germany, the USSR, various religions, the KKK, the Black Panthers, etc. (Yes, I just compared BLM to some of the worst humans to have ever existed, this is how bad they've gotten). And from a neutral standpoint, some of those factions had proper reasons that fueled their hateful sentiments. But BLM does not share this, in that all (or at least most) of their complaints has been petty pedantic millennial garbage. In the interview that @Brovo linked, (The awful Jim Crow attitude and hypocrisy aside) the representatives of the BLM movement claimed they were being harassed due to their race because their government/public sector employers wanted them to look professional while at their job.

    TL;DR, My answers in order are: Yes and No, It Depends (but they should be allowed to), They don't HAVE to, No, yes, no.
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  10. Well, first off, I'll be keeping a watchful eye on this thread. Keep it civil and don't give me extra work to do. >:[

    And now my thoughts. I haven't yet read any of the other responses, so don't be shocked if others have already said some of this.
    Perhaps. Trials are not the alpha and omega of dealing with potentially unlawful actions. First of all it should be investigated and the local district attorney's office needs to decide if it looks like a crime rather than police lawfully using deadly force, then if the DA calls it a possible crime charges need to be brought against them and the info needs to be brought before a grand jury (assuming these states operate on that same system, I don't want to go look the specific info up right now) for them to decide if there's enough to bring it to trial, and then if the grand jury says yes it should go to trial. The officers involved should be put through this process, and should either case make it to trial then alright, go for it.

    Now, since you're going for personal opinion here rather than an explanation of the justice system, I think the legal severity of the Alton Sterling case hinges entirely on whether or not he actually had a gun on his person. I haven't seen it reported one way or the other, just reports that the police and DA's office refused to answer that question and others about the investigation. If he had a gun then the videos that have been put out (with their lack of visuals on Sterling's hands but full audio) make perfect sense as police using justifiable lethal force: they were called out to check on a report of someone threatening a homeless guy with a gun, Sterling apparently matched the description, they got into an altercation, once he was on the ground one cop yelled what sounds like "he's going to his pocket he's got a gun" and then he or the other one gets his gun out and yells "hey bro if you fucking move I swear to God" and then comes a yell of "??? he's going for the ???" (question marks for words I couldn't make out at all) and shots are fired. This sounds like they saw what appeared to be a gun, Sterling was reaching for it, one of the officers warned him not to move, he kept going for the gun, so the cop with reasonable fear for the safety of himself and his partner opened fire. If he did NOT have a gun though, then things get tricky: all you need for justifiable use of force is the reasonable belief that your life is in danger to the point that you require lethal force to protect yourself. This fatal shooting can hypothetically be justified based on the circumstances even if Alton Sterling had no gun, just based on him having something in his pocket and him reaching for it. I think the most that these officers could get in trouble for is excessive force, perhaps for the start of the altercation (no video released so far shows why the cops took him to the ground) or for the four shots fired after the first two had presumably incapacitated Sterling. I don't think they'll get tagged for murder because it can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt unless the store security camera footage shows a very different story than those cell phone camera videos.

    The Philando Castille case is in a very similar boat, though as far as I know the only footage of the incident that exists is from the driver, Castille's girlfriend, who started filming after the shooting. The video itself contains everything you need to know to see why this case is very likely not going to end in a murder conviction: the cop in the video yells "I told him not to reach for it, I told him to get his hand off it." This was after the driver said that Castille had informed the officer that he was licensed to carry a firearm and was reaching for his wallet. Here's the situation: Castille told the officer he has a gun, he reached for his pocket, the cop told him to stop, Castille apparently did not stop, so the cop was afraid that Castille was going to pull a gun and fired on the uncooperative and armed man. And yes, the fact that he did not stop when ordered, even though he was reaching for his wallet to get requested identification, is considered being uncooperative. We don't know if Castille or his girlfriend were being confrontational with the cop before this, we don't know what the tone of the discussion had been, we don't know anything at this point except the aftermath... in which the cop seems extremely distressed by the fact that he just shot and killed a man. That sort of thing isn't exactly legally solid, but you're gonna have a hard time convincing a grand jury that that cop was some ruthless murderer after they hear how he was losing it after the incident. I don't think this one will even get to an indictment, honestly. People may not like it, but the laws for self defense and justifiable police homicide are far looser than "it's only okay if the person was actively trying to murder you," and this seems to fit right in the justifiable use of force category, as unfortunate and entirely preventable as it was.
    Yes. Without the threat of deadly force, how exactly could they deal with someone who has a gun? Law-abiding citizens and criminals alike have ready access to firearms, and police need to be able to respond in kind with that on-demand deadly force to be able to do their jobs. What people need to understand is that the vast majority of cases in which people are killed by police are when the suspect very obviously has a deadly weapon. They aren't perfect, and sometimes you get these cases where someone either has a weapon or appears to have a weapon and then shit gets out of hand and someone gets shot, but frankly speaking 9 times out of 10 that is the fault of the suspect. Sterling could have stopped struggling and very likely avoided being shot, Castille could have stopped reaching for his wallet when the cop told him to stop and he almost certainly would not have been shot (because the cop would have asked him to step out of the vehicle to retrieve the gun and and identification himself, thus no need for the panic of self defense). It really sucks when the police kill someone that wasn't actively and blatantly being a threat to their person, but something being sucky doesn't mean it is or should be illegal. The fact of the matter is that about 1 in 3 people in the US own a gun, so police have to take that potential threat extremely seriously lest they end up dead themselves.
    Police having good relations with the communities they operate in is always a good idea. Whether or not they should do a "better" job depends on how good a job they're already doing. All that's needed is a general feeling of mutual respect, not being super friendly with everyone. So long as the people respect the police who are working to protect them and their belongings, and the cops respect the people that they are working to protect, then that's all you need. There need be no love going either way, just civility and understanding.
    That there is a complicated set of questions. They're right that some places have problems where minorities are mistreated by the police. Complaints revolving around unjustified police actions against minorities at a very disproportionate level compared to such actions against white people hold plenty of merit.

    Where they lose me is when they start saying shit about how all cops are racist, or all police departments are racist, or similar stupid generalizations. Hell, even saying that the justice system is racist because black people are disproportionately represented in arrests and convictions isn't actually a clearly merit-filled complaint. Black people do make up a disproportionate amount of prisoners and such, yes, but they also make up a disproportionate amount of the people committing crimes. There are numerous socioeconomic theories as to why this is the case, and the cycle of shit where black folks being sent to prison a first time makes it far more likely that they will be lifetime criminals since having a record cuts off a lot of their limited opportunities, but putting it plainly it's not the job of the police to try to solve social ills. Their job is simple: try to prevent crimes from being committed, find and catch suspects if a crime is committed, investigate to prove who committed crimes. It's a self-propelling cycle where crime = punishment = more crime = more punishment and so on, but it is not in fact a one-sided issue of the cops just being racist assholes. It is an indisputable statistical fact that black people in the US commit a disproportionate amount of crime, therefore it makes all the sense in the world that they represent a disproportionate amount of convicted criminals. It's shitty, and it's a lot more complex than simple-minded bullshit like "cops are just racists" or "black people are just criminals" (which are the two stupid positions you see from the extremes, BLM being part of one of them), so just blaming the justice system is very misguided. Their methods are also pretty damned misguided, since all they're really accomplishing is sowing more discord. Y'know, like when BLM demonstrations start up chants like "more dead cops." That is not a good method to try to enact positive change.

    So some of their complaints may have merit, some of their positions on things may be right, but I guess I have to firmly answer yes to the 'are they misguided?' bit. They're taking a very complicated issue and trying to boil it down to a few simple answers, and whenever someone does that it inevitably turns into a misguided shitshow. This one seems to be turning into an especially large shitshow.
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  11. There have already been some lengthy answers about these questions, so I'll keep this to a brief and general statement. I think that all these problems have a similar source. People feel like they lack control in their lives and flock to simple solutions to a complex problem. They overestimate their understanding of the situation, and pride prevents them from being able to see what they are becoming. They are blind zealots. Radicals with whom you could not even disagree with without being accused of hate speak.

    Blocking out everything which is uncomfortable will not make us happy. BLM is the inevitable result of when people fail to understand their part in the problem. I'm not going to say that BLM is a terrorist organization, and I think that petition is going too far. I think their problem is partly that it has a millennial base. There is a reason why the face of the movement is not poor black people who grew up in the face of overt discrimination or bad police relations. There is a reason why the movement has no discernable long-term goals, why they use the term racist to describe minor to non-existent infractions, and why their protests are so hateful. They want to blame everyone but themselves for all problems they face. Because so long as it isn't their fault, they are justified and virtuous. If only it actually solved the problem...

    And lastly, for anyone who thinks that the police should not use deadly force, I challenge you to the following. Make a roleplay in which you are a police officer. Put that police officer in all sorts of situations. Make sure that you have no control over what the criminals are going to do by giving another player creative control over them. It seems like a good first step to actually understanding what you are demanding of others.
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  12. Well, before this breaks into a warzone, I would like to insert my opinion into the mix. I believe that officers have good intentions, just like BLM, but can make mistakes at times. We're all humans, we will mess up at times. Truth is, at least in my opinion, that according to my faith (Christianity), God gave us free will, and while we can use it for good or evil, we all stray of the path at least once, and we should admit our mistakes and learn from them.
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  13. Wow, lots of lengthy answers to this topic of Police vs. Citizen. All I can observe is police brutality seems to be coming from their natural desire to assert their authority, which is often taken far out of context; You see people struggling, maybe trying to run because of old felonies, but the result is the same: A needless death when they could have quietly, gently, taken said prisoner to jail. Violence is useless, or is it? Two sides to every story, and with the divided media I've been watching lately, there's not enough evidence to say who was more wrong: The cop or the "innocent" African American/Mexican who was shot.

    It's also well known that officers enjoy profiling, with almost a sick sense of humor. I don't believe it's right, and they end up catching the wrong person more often than the right criminal, but maybe it's how they're being trained... I'm trying to keep this post neutral, as I have a friend who was a police woman, before she married and had kids. My only advice is this; be vigilant, keep alert, don't hesitate to do something if you see wrong doings; too many people are doing that and this is leading to epic disasters. In my home town, police are too focused on the homeless, drugs and alchoholics, especially Meth. I know for a fact they haven't caught the true criminals, because the same people driving around in trucks killing homeless and people of mixed races, are still here. Yep, no one is perfect, sums everything up. In a fairer world, there would be no need for police, government control, or even Presidents. Maybe we could govern ourselves and listen to our own consciences, instead of constantly saying we don't have a soul, we could unite (Laughing at this idea), and maybe try helping each other instead of stabbing one another in the back for no reason other than petty jealousy. I'm going to politely bow out of this topic, as I don't know enough to continue anything else. Hope you all stay safe. :D Sorry if post sucked. Been a while.
  14. In most of these situations, I have found that it is never completely one parties fault. It is a combination of things from both sides. In some situations, did the police need to use deadly force? Maybe not. At the same time, should the suspect just have cooperated? Yea, he probably should have.

    Does racism still exist in this country? Yes. Systemic racism still exists as well, just not to the extent of which proclaimed.

    In theory, BLM is a good movement. It is just undermined by the incorrect order of priorities. Instead of fighting the police’s brutality, they need to fight their own first. When ghetto’s stop becoming war zones, and they begin to value knowledge and education as much as they value gangs now, then progress will be made. Before trying to tackle the issues of how their race is viewed by others, they need to tackle the issues of how their race views themselves.

    All of this comes down to division in this country. It all goes back to politics. Most of those critical of the BLM movement are conservative. At least from what I have seen in my experience on the social medias. It is the ploy of the parties fighting each other. This division in the country is EXACTLY what George Washington was warning us about. It starts in politics, but leeches into every crevice of society. This is the Division being caused and it will only get worse. Both political sides blame the other, and hate the other for the most part. They think the other is the problem. When it is in fact, the parties themselves that are the issues.

    The parties have instilled a “One or the other” mentality in the American public. Your either conservative or liberal. Democrat or Republican. I have seen it. I posted on Facebook about some Obama did and my conservative “friends” called me liberal when I never once claimed to be liberal. You are either pro black or anti cop. Pro cop or anti black. Clinton or Trump. If you don’t support one, then you are part of the other. That mentality is bullshit.

    It all goes back to Division. The only way it will ever get fixed, is with unity. Unity at all levels. Unity within the black community to change their own culture. The unity with other races to change the police culture. As long as the political parties continue to polarize the public, the mentality will continue to be “one or the other”. It will never get any better. As the political division leeches into society and culture more and more things will only get worse and worse.

    As I said, this is EXACTLY what George Washington was warning us about in regards to political parties. It always starts political, but he knew that the parties would become so polarizing, they would infect the society and culture to a point where it would become so fragmented that it would fall at its own hands. We are watching that playing out, and their is so evidence of it looking to get any better.
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  15. BLM has become nothing more than a hate group full of people who have no cause but to spread hatred. They are only proving the statistics that blacks are more prone to acts of violence and other crimes despite their minority status. (Which here in the southern US is not such a minority)

    Yes, some people are bad cops, but that is true for any grouping of people, some are bad, some are good. You cannot generalize and fit people into any one box, even when they agree on one point or another, there will always be those who do not fit the molds.

    ALL lives matter, but you cannot get rid of the force that keeps criminals from harming the innocent, even when that force has to become deadly to be effective.

    On a more personal note, I have not seen where they get this whole thing of blacks being put down more than other races. They have the same opportunities and chances as everyone else from what I can see or have seen in my life. Some of my school friends back in the day were black and doing better in school than I was so *shrugs*
    Of course I have also seen the blacks who do not want to try and want everything just handed to them, those are the dangerous ones.

    Just my opinion, BLM is not helping anyone and police are mostly just doing their jobs and trying to go home to their families.

    found this on FB, sums it up nicely.
  16. Yeah. I linked it in my post.
    The individual doesn't matter, only the collective. Listen and believe, feels are reals, stamp, number, stick in a box. Everything is sexist, everything is racist, and they have to point it all out. The rhetoric goes on perpetually. :ferret:
    Woah now, did you just propose whites are people? Let's not get extreme here. Monsters don't get to be people.
    Well, in the Game of Thrones Oppression, Gays have been demoted lately due to their successes in the US, like gaining equal marriage. (For some reason, lesbians? Not so. It's specifically gays, and usually white gays.) Apparently ignoring how about 1/2 of the world still criminalizes it and and 3/4ths of the Muslim world openly practice lashing and executing them. Like Qatar, or Saudi Arabia.

    Anyway, this demotion in the oppression olympics is why it suddenly became okay to invade the Orlando Vigil. Because in their mind, your emotions and travesties are secondary to their sense of self-righteousness if they're considered higher than you in the oppression ladder. No empathy for the individual, only justice for the collective.

    In fact, Muslims are considered more oppressed than gays now. It'd be funny if it wasn't so god damn pathetic and destructive... And mentally insane.
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  17. [​IMG]

    I'm so fucking done -_-

    Apparently the murder of over 50 LGBT people by an Islamic terrorist (which wasn't out of homophobia but out of twisted compassion since the Quran specifically states to kill gays to save their souls and shit like that) doesn't scream hatred to them!

    Fuck this movement man!
  18. Just remember not to hate individual people who subscribe to it. Don't judge people until you talk with them, learn about them. Be kind. Be understanding.

    Hatred begets nothing but hatred. You'll note I didn't hate BLM; I'm afraid of what BLM is doing, and disappointed in them. I doubt them, I'm critical of what they're doing as a collective movement. When it comes to the individual though, if I met a BLM activist, I'd offer him or her a cup of tea and a few minutes of my time to have someone listen.

    It's rare for a movement or idea to be made of pure evil or spite. There's a kernal of truth or good intentions in every idea, it's usually just the execution that goes to shit. That's why the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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  19. I don't think I've ever read anything like that before. o.o
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