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Medieval Weapon of Choice
- Thread starter Lylith
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C
CR Stokes
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Well it does say debate. I am sure your skill with it is only surpassed by your vast vocabulary.
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Nikita
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Scythe it is sharp, amazing elegant and can kill all around me with one swing.
Forever live the scythe!
Forever live the scythe!
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I love this, but realistically speaking for me? A polearm is too heavy for me to use properly. The only reason I picked a spear over a polearm honestly is weight concern. Same with anything that'd make me wear significant amounts of armour, even just medium armour--I haven't been trained in armour, it would feel clunky and slow me down as well as make me about as graceful as a halfway blind Wombat going at mach 5 through a jungle. Even if it was just hardened leather, it'd still screw me up.Lylith said:
Ergo, picking and choosing, the spear gives me reach and requires little skill beyond thrusting. The pavise requires zero skill, the crossbow only needs my ability to aim (and I have actually been trained in the usage of mechanical bows so I could use a crossbow well enough), and the caltrops are as simple as opening a bag with a pair of thick leather gloves and tossing them everywhere. Thus, chances are, I could win fights with this kit, since it doesn't weigh me down too much and doesn't demand a huge amount of skill.
Also, one note about spear combat. In formation they were unstoppable, ergo Spartans and en masse peasants, but anyone with a shield in a one on one versus a spear man can bullrush with the shield pretty safely by deflecting the spear tip away the moment they reach it and sliding the shield up the length of the shaft until they can bash their opponent in the face. Spears were effective weapons, but they had their counters like most other weapons.
Aside from all of that, yeah, you got it nailed. If you could reasonable wield a polearm, that armour, and the small buckler, you could annihilate the majority of opponents in your way by virtue of the polearm's sheer crushing power and reach. You definitely know what you're talking about.
As for other weapons...
Crossbow: A single crossbow is a deadly sniping tool. Assuming you have the training you can seriously maim a lot of people. Something to keep in mind however is that a crossbow's primary strength is in its piercing power, which is primarily from its speed. The archer can outrange the crossbowman if he has any standard long bow. Ergo why I took the Pavise. It gives me the cover I need in a ranged engagement.
Hellis: I'm going to assume you meant one shield on your back, one on your arm, with a warhammer, and an axe, and a bow. Not sure if could wield all that effectively. I'd probably just drop the war hammer, no way could you sheath that with your bow at the same time and not have them in your way.
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Wow that came out longer than expected. Oops.
EDIT
Also, a quick thing to note for people who assume the knight is going to be slow. First of all, he trains in that. He's probably got muscles large enough to crush small children. Secondly, you can do cartwheels in full plate. The main issue is fatigue and if the ground beneath you is, say, wet from heavy rain, or extremely uneven like fighting on a mountain-side. Surprisingly plate mail doesn't really slow you down so much as it just straight exhausts you.
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Archer...
"Surprisingly plate mail doesn't really slow you down so much as it just straight exhausts you."
So true, but it does slow you down enough that a lightly armored soldier can get the upper hand.
The point of the axe is to keep momentum and have a sort of bubble where enemies cannot get in... With that axe moving in long, fast, arcs, no warrior is going to want to charge in for a blow.
Armored targets CAN take a blow, and the hard thing about axes against armor is to hit hard enough so that the blade doesn't turn... Anyone who has ever hit a tree with an axe knows what I'm talking about... Lol... That's why the Ravens Beak was invented... That's the spike at the back of most battle axes... IT punches through armor, or hooks it, and allows you to pull around on the haft of the axe and yank your target to the ground, or... If you punched through his chest armor, kill him...
Once again, I must reiterate... Fighting with two or more 2 handed weapons, and two shields is simply not possible... And especially not a bow as well, on top of all that... I actually participate in medieval battle reconstruction and reenactment... Most warriors that have two weapons will have one pole arm, bow, or great sword, as well as a shield and a short sword... That was the favorite backup weapon of the time. Some would use daggers as well, but those were mainly for the mercy kill, after your opponent had fallen.
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True, but then most knights were also human lawnmowers with reach and speed, often using long swords, bastard swords, otherwise known as "hand and a half" blades.
Not saying that it's impossible for the lightly armoured guy to win. (I'd hope not--after all, my own kit recommends basically wearing nearly zero armour.) But for the lightly armoured guy to win he has to level the playing field either by outlasting the knight (because that plate mail ain't getting any lighter), or having superior piercing power and the ability to close in for the kill (ala the pointy end of most war hammers and axes, as you stated, then having the ability to get past the lawnmower motion).
Then again, it also depends on what generation of plate mail we're talking about too, as some late era plate was able to stop bullets save at close range.
In summary: Medieval weapons are much more complex than they appear to be, and I think we can both agree that it's more on the user than on the weapon to win a fight.
Not saying that it's impossible for the lightly armoured guy to win. (I'd hope not--after all, my own kit recommends basically wearing nearly zero armour.) But for the lightly armoured guy to win he has to level the playing field either by outlasting the knight (because that plate mail ain't getting any lighter), or having superior piercing power and the ability to close in for the kill (ala the pointy end of most war hammers and axes, as you stated, then having the ability to get past the lawnmower motion).
Then again, it also depends on what generation of plate mail we're talking about too, as some late era plate was able to stop bullets save at close range.
In summary: Medieval weapons are much more complex than they appear to be, and I think we can both agree that it's more on the user than on the weapon to win a fight.
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Crispy
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Has no one thought of the implications and joy that you could have from using an armoured elephant to just fuck everyone up? Just hide behind the head while you engage the archer. The armour probably weighs about as much as 5 spearmen so there's that against the damn spearman. A full armoured knight would be like a mini armoured elephant. Enough said. The swordsman, with shield, might present a threat so long as its being stepped on and getting my elephant covered in shit, but it's only a rental so I don't care.
On a slightly more serious note, I think I would manage best with an axe. It's been mentioned before but something that heavy with momentum doesn't just cut, it crushes. Using a shield and some armour gets you past the archer into killing range. Even against a knight, assuming you're quicker you can throw the shield between their legs to make them stumble and then crush the head, knees, elbows, shins, or ribs with a strike. That would debilitate the knight and allow you to deal a killing blow. As far as dealing with the swordsman, that becomes a battle of pure skill and aggressions. Sidestepping to strike around the shield is the common tactic and the edge of an axe also allows you to pull compared to a sword which can only slash or stab in this particular example. You don't just use your arms in combat, so pulling and tripping is a valid tactic which an axe would make feasible and realistically tactically sound. Atop this the momentum of a axe can break and fracture bones, so if you wore chainmail the swordsman is limited in his approach, while if they were garbed similarly you could still rely on breaking them bit by bit. The spearman is realistically rendered dead by the combination of a shield and axe. Assuming they're thrusting without a shield you have the ability to deflect their blow and strike the weapon itself until it's destroyed. Even if the bit on the axe is dull it will crush a skull. A shattered spear really just becomes a knife on a jagged stick.
On a slightly more serious note, I think I would manage best with an axe. It's been mentioned before but something that heavy with momentum doesn't just cut, it crushes. Using a shield and some armour gets you past the archer into killing range. Even against a knight, assuming you're quicker you can throw the shield between their legs to make them stumble and then crush the head, knees, elbows, shins, or ribs with a strike. That would debilitate the knight and allow you to deal a killing blow. As far as dealing with the swordsman, that becomes a battle of pure skill and aggressions. Sidestepping to strike around the shield is the common tactic and the edge of an axe also allows you to pull compared to a sword which can only slash or stab in this particular example. You don't just use your arms in combat, so pulling and tripping is a valid tactic which an axe would make feasible and realistically tactically sound. Atop this the momentum of a axe can break and fracture bones, so if you wore chainmail the swordsman is limited in his approach, while if they were garbed similarly you could still rely on breaking them bit by bit. The spearman is realistically rendered dead by the combination of a shield and axe. Assuming they're thrusting without a shield you have the ability to deflect their blow and strike the weapon itself until it's destroyed. Even if the bit on the axe is dull it will crush a skull. A shattered spear really just becomes a knife on a jagged stick.
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Until someone unleashes the flaming pigs on you.
Wait, we weren't talking about Rome: Total War? Oh, okay.
Well then until someone unleashes the might of hundreds of caltrops on you.
Wait, we weren't talking about Rome: Total War? Oh, okay.
Well then until someone unleashes the might of hundreds of caltrops on you.
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Hellis
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Ok. SO I PUT ON A LITTLE WEIGHT. THAT WAS UNC-
Oh, you meant the actual pigs.
Never mind.
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Dervish
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Say hello to the Swiss army knife of medieval warfare, mister pole axe.
Heavily armoured knight wants to cave your skull in with a mace? Show him the error of his ways with the hammer!
Some uppity peasant wants to pitchfork you, or if he's lucky, spear you? There's an axe for that!
Somebody thinks that riding a horse is going to make him high and mighty? Stick him with the pointy end.
Lots of reach and versatility, you can hook, get some momentum going, and if you have good armour, you're doing pretty well for yourself.
Failing that, the mace and shield combo is always a winning proposition. Blunt force trauma is quite effective in the vast majority of instances, although if I had to do a bladed weapon, let's get an axe going.
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C92cool
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Just a sword and shield...nothing else is required. To be honest I'll go naked and scare the people with that. The swordsman would just be an honest all out duel between us, the spearman will be dead as soon as I close in and knock past his spear, the knight I'll have to be quick on my feet and attack the weak points in his armor, and the bowman I'll have to sneaky and use my shield to block any arrows until I can close in on them.
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Crispy
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You and all your naked brothers can say hello to the pikeman of .... sandy places that were totally medieval ...
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Dervish
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Considering Spartans primarily used their spears over their swords and how they were a feared military power in their hay day, you might be wise to not underestimate what a man with a polearm can do. Keep in mind, it's not just the spearhead that's dangerous; you can use the length of a spear as a makeshift quarterstaff and I promise you're not going to have a super easy time knocking a spear out of the way for a kill when the enemy is quite eager to keep it trained on you. You knock it aside, he pulls back and thrusts at you, prompting you to react or get a foot of steel in the guts.
As for knights, keep in mind these are men who have trained for the vast majority of their lives in combat and are quite comfortable and surprisingly agile in their plate armours. Also, given that they were men of status, they also were the best trained, had the best medicine, and had the best nutrition. Trying to go for the joints in their armour while they're also moving and actively trying to kill you (plus many carried shields) is a lot easier said than done. They aren't static targets, and since they are armoured enough to use flails safely, have fun trying to get close to that.
Archers you can't really do much against other than block and hope you can advance far enough to engage them, but you best hope the force of impact doesn't fatigue your arm to the point you can't raise your arm enough to block after prolonged hits, an arrow doesn't penetrate far enough to skewer your arm, or they aren't good enough shots to go for your ankles.
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heliacalRebirth
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Razilin
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Dervish
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Pretty sure it doesn't work that way, because assuming a farming tool is piercing armour, it still has this thing called physics to contend with, which sadly means it can't cut somebody in half and the five other guys standing around you.
Chances are, it would get stuck in something or someone and then you would be promptly disarmed and rather sad, and then rather dead.
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Hellis
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Not to mention a scythe is super unvieldy. Anyone who ever used one would know this. Terrible weapons.
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Cpt Toellner
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You will become the greatest fear of wheat everywhere.
I would prfer polearms, and polearms do the best when they have buddies, a Halberd is my weapon of choice.