Mafia 2.0: Day Thread Game #7

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RULES & ROLES

Overall Policies

Do not discuss the game with other players outside of the in-game PMs and day phase thread, at all. You are free to discuss it with people who are not playing.
Do not edit or delete posts. No, not even to correct typos or to remove double posts. While I know that this is frustrating, it is too easy to cheat otherwise. If the current "hall monitor" (@Shizuochan) or I catch you editing or deleting posts, we will revert your edit or undelete your post.
Do not talk in night chats during the day phase, and vice versa. This should be fairly self-explanatory.

Inactivity

Inactive means no activity in the day thread or responding to night action reminders.
If you are inactive for 1 full cycle, you will receive a warning.
If you are inactive for 2 full cycles, you will be roleblocked.
If you are inactive for 3 full cycles, you will be killed. I will state at the beginning of the discussion phase that you were removed for inactivity. If you have a power role and there are any vanilla team members alive and active, one of them will randomly receive your role.

The game will start with me using a RNG to assign roles to players. I will then PM each player to let them know what their role is and ask them for their first night action if they have one. Once you receive this PM, the game has officially begun.

The game consists of three phases: the night phase, the discussion phase, and the voting phase. The discussion and voting phase are referred to collectively as the day phase. The night phase will take place solely in PMs, while the discussion and voting phases will take place on a public thread. Each phase will be 72 hours long, starting and ending at 5:00 PM MDT. A maximum of two single-day extensions each may be requested for the discussion and voting phases. The discussion phase will also end early if requested. I may also extend or end the day phase if I believe discussion is still active or has ended, respectively. You are still allowed to discuss during the voting phase.

At the start of the night phase, I will PM each person with a night role asking how/if they would like to use their night action. Once the night phase ends, the night actions will resolve and I'll enact any results. For example if person X is killed, then at the end of the night I will inform X that they have been killed, and add/remove them from any PM chats as necessary. Most PMs are between the player and myself only, however some players have the ability to communicate with others at night: if this is the case, it will be stated in their role description.

Next comes the discussion phase. Every discussion phase will begin with me announcing who (if anyone) died the previous night, that it is now the discussion phase, and when the discussion phase will end. In the discussion phase everyone is able to talk about who they think is what role, who they want to lynch, and whatever else may be relevant to the game. I may jump in with rule clarifications if I believe someone is confused about the rules. At the end of the discussion phase, I will announce that the discussion phase is over and that it is now the voting phase, along with when the voting phase will end.

In the voting phase everyone may vote on who they want to lynch. In order to vote you must publicly announce in the day phase thread that you are voting to lynch X player. People are allowed to cancel or change their vote, but keep in mind that you are not allowed to edit or delete posts. If someone is voted on by the majority of players (majority = (Total Living Players/2)+1, rounded down when total players is odd) before the end of the voting phase, then that player will be lynched. I will post announcing that X player has been lynched, state their faction (town, mafia, or neutral), and add or remove people from PMs as necessary. If nobody receives a majority of the vote before the end of the voting phase, I will announce that nobody has been lynched. When either somebody has been lynched or the voting phase ends, I will announce that the voting phase has ended and the night phase has begun. I will also state when the night phase will end.

Any questions people have during the game can be asked in this thread, in the day phase thread if it is currently the day phase, or via PM. I would prefer that you ask any role-related questions via PM to prevent cheating, though this is not strictly necessary.

The game ends once either all the town or all the mafia are dead. Once this happens, the game will end and I will announce the results in the discussion and voting phase thread. The results consist of who won and a complete role list. After the game is over, the discussion and voting phase thread will be archived, and players may discuss their thoughts on the game in this main thread. We will generally start planning the next game and pick the next GM and "hall monitor" at this time.

Mayor: The mayor may reveal themselves anytime during the day phase. After they are revealed, their vote counts as 3 votes.
Detective: The detective may visit one person every night. They learn the faction--town, mafia, or neutral--of the person they visit.
Doctor: The doctor may protect one person from being killed every night. They have two self-heals.
Medium: The medium can communicate with the dead. They will be part of the dead chat. While they can always see the dead chat, they are only allowed to talk to the dead at night. After they die, they will be able to send one message. They may choose who to send this message to at any time. The message will be sent at night.
Lookout: The lookout may visit one person each night. They will see who visits that person. The Lookout has a night chat with the Tracker.
Tracker: The tracker may visit one person each night and see who that person visits. The Tracker has a night chat with the Lookout.
3 normal townies

Mafia and Neutral
2 Mafiosos: The mafia vote on who to kill each night. They may decide who visits the target. If they do not choose, one of them will be randomly picked.
Consort: Mafia-aligned. The consort may visit one person each night. The person they visit can not use their night ability and will be told that they were blocked. If there are no other mafia alive, the Consort becomes a Mafioso.
Executioner: Neutral. The executioner gets a randomized town-aligned target at the beginning of the game. Their goal is to make sure that person is lynched. If their target dies at night, they become a Jester. The Jester's goal is to be lynched. Both the Jester and the Executioner are immune to night kills.
Survivor: Neutral. The survivor's goal is to survive throughout the game. They get three self-heals that they can use at night.
 
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The following italics are a message that has been sent to you by the Medium.

Not much to impart, since it's been pretty dead in Dead chat - RJS was mayor, Kim was the doctor. Feel free to keep Kim's identity vague if we want the last mafia member on their toes!

@Joan @LuckycoolHawk9
 
Okay and that makes a complete list.

Elle Joyner: Medium Status: Dead
@Joan: Lookout Status: Alive and trustworthy
Kimberlyn: Doctor, confirmed townie. Status: Dead
@CloudyBlueDay: Vanilla townie claim. Status: Alive and mostly trustworthy.
Dipper: Detective Status: Dead
RJS: Mayor. Status: Dead
Anguissette: Consort/Mafioso Status: Dead, hung by town
@IntrusivePenDesperateSword: Tracker Status: Alive and trustworthy
Kiilgore: Vanilla townie claim when alive Status: Dead
neobendium: Mafioso Status: Hung by town, first death
@LuckycoolHawk9: Vanilla town. Status: Alive and used to making these.
@The_J: Executioner turned jester. Target was Kimberlyn. Was watched by Pen to confirm. Status: Alive and suicidal. Wants to die
@7.39: Suspect of being mafia. Do not hang or vote to hang neo or Ange. Has not interacted with town outside of the rare interaction. Was forced to talk by kiilgore yesterday when asked question. Has been online within the past two days and hasn't replied despite multiple tags. Status: Alive and suspect of being scummy.
@Lusterine: Survivor claim that seemed to be backed by lookout. Status: Alive and trustworthy[/QUOTE]

But yeah, with us knowing everything, we know all the roles now, or at least a vague idea of what it is. Unless CloudyBlueDay is being a truly evil person and being honestly one of the most strategically best mafia, I honestly don't see a scenario where we can lose. Also, Neo REALLY wanted Mr_J dead and I don't think we should complete a mafia's wish post-mortem. @Joan.
 
Tagging @Starlighter to confirm @The_J does not have to kill.
I'm afraid that it's not for me to confirm or deny whether or not any particular player can kill.

On that note, are we able to extend today?

Also @Starlighter can we get a day extension for voting.

The voting phase has been extended by one day, and will now end on Sunday, May 6th, at 5:00pm MDT.

Switching my vote back to @7.39. @Starlighter

Ok, fair. Voting for The_J it is, then.


Total votes thus far:
3 votes for @The_J, one more is needed for a lynch.

3 votes for @The_J, one more is needed for a lynch.
 
Welp..... I did a derp.

I MEANT to say 3 votes for The_J & 3 votes for @7.39, my apologies.
 
I'm afraid that it's not for me to confirm or deny whether or not any particular player can kill.
The question being asked was if he is required to kill.

Okay and that makes a complete list.

Elle Joyner: Medium Status: Dead
@Joan: Lookout Status: Alive and trustworthy
Kimberlyn: Doctor, confirmed townie. Status: Dead
@CloudyBlueDay: Vanilla townie claim. Status: Alive and mostly trustworthy.
Dipper: Detective Status: Dead
RJS: Mayor. Status: Dead
Anguissette: Consort/Mafioso Status: Dead, hung by town
@IntrusivePenDesperateSword: Tracker Status: Alive and trustworthy
Kiilgore: Vanilla townie claim when alive Status: Dead
neobendium: Mafioso Status: Hung by town, first death
@LuckycoolHawk9: Vanilla town. Status: Alive and used to making these.
@The_J: Executioner turned jester. Target was Kimberlyn. Was watched by Pen to confirm. Status: Alive and suicidal. Wants to die
@7.39: Suspect of being mafia. Do not hang or vote to hang neo or Ange. Has not interacted with town outside of the rare interaction. Was forced to talk by kiilgore yesterday when asked question. Has been online within the past two days and hasn't replied despite multiple tags. Status: Alive and suspect of being scummy.
@Lusterine: Survivor claim that seemed to be backed by lookout. Status: Alive and trustworthy

But yeah, with us knowing everything, we know all the roles now, or at least a vague idea of what it is. Unless CloudyBlueDay is being a truly evil person and being honestly one of the most strategically best mafia, I honestly don't see a scenario where we can lose. Also, Neo REALLY wanted Mr_J dead and I don't think we should complete a mafia's wish post-mortem. @Joan.[/QUOTE]
As far as I understand it, neo was trying to lynch J to save herself. And really, for me, it's not completing the wishes of a mafia, so much as giving us a chance to make absolutely certain of who the mafia is, along with quite frankly giving somebody what I think is a well-deserved win.

7.39 is the most likely mafia, yes. But I was only willing at all to vote for them before because I didn't think there was a way we could make certain. But now that I see a way to make certain, I would much rather do that than take the risk of losing the game here and now. But again, I understand others are going to be calculating that risk differently, seeing as this isn't exactly a normal play.
 
The question being asked was if he is required to kill.
It's a bit of a technicality really, but confirming whether or not a given player is required to kill would also mean confirming that they have a role which can kill, particularly if the answer is that they are in fact required to kill. If you were to ask whether or not the Jester is required to kill, as opposed to a given player under the assumption that they are the Jester, however, then the answer would be no, they are not.
 
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7.39 is the most likely mafia, yes. But I was only willing at all to vote for them before because I didn't think there was a way we could make certain. But now that I see a way to make certain, I would much rather do that than take the risk of losing the game here and now. But again, I understand others are going to be calculating that risk differently, seeing as this isn't exactly a normal play.

But the way that can be certain involves risking a role that hasn't proved to be trustworthy at all. Let's run through The_J track record.

1) Try to lynch @IntrusivePenDesperateSword on day 2.
2) Try to lynch Joan last cycle.
3) Was actively convincing everyone Joan and Pen were the mafia.
4) Has actively tried to get lynched.
5) Has promised to kill me if I kept flip flopping.
 
Total votes thus far:
3 votes for @The_J, one more is needed for a lynch.

3 votes for @The_J, one more is needed for a lynch.
No no, this clearly states I have six votes on me. J wins!
But the way that can be certain involves risking a role that hasn't proved to be trustworthy at all. Let's run through The_J track record.

1) Try to lynch @IntrusivePenDesperateSword on day 2.
2) Try to lynch Joan last cycle.
3) Was actively convincing everyone Joan and Pen were the mafia.
4) Has actively tried to get lynched.
5) Has promised to kill me if I kept flip flopping.
Points one through four are how a Jester role works mate. What did you expect, exactly? Besides, Joan has already sufficiently addressed this exact point, come on.
 
But the way that can be certain involves risking a role that hasn't proved to be trustworthy at all. Let's run through The_J track record.

1) Try to lynch @IntrusivePenDesperateSword on day 2.
2) Try to lynch Joan last cycle.
3) Was actively convincing everyone Joan and Pen were the mafia.
4) Has actively tried to get lynched.
5) Has promised to kill me if I kept flip flopping.
I already addressed the first four points, and I took the last point as a joke. But yes, points 1 through 4 are how Jester works. One of the best ways to get yourself lynched as Jester are go for the people you know are town, so that when they flip town, the town assumes you're mafia. It's not a common strategy here for certain--past jesters have relied on being confusing and double-bluffing, and it really has not worked well for them, except in Dipper's case. But it is one of the more effective jester strategies, and I legitimately do not see how it indicates any particular hostility towards town, which is what you seem to be emphasizing.
 
@Starlighter Requesting the second extension of the voting phase, please.
 
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@Starlighter Requesting the second extension of the voting phase, please.
Sure thing.

The voting phase has been extended by one day, and will now end on Monday, May 7th, at 5:00pm MDT. No more extensions may be requested.
 
@LuckycoolHawk9 If the biggest hangup with lynching J is really worrying about him betraying us...how about this. We lynch Luster. Luster is a neutral, and would provide the same safe ratios, while still giving me and Pen a chance to locate the final mafia.

I honestly hate this plan and wouldn't be suggesting it if I thought there was still a chance of somebody changing their vote to J, because it frankly takes the win away from Luster and potentially also from J if you still don't want to lynch him tomorrow, but it is still a way to give us that chance to make absolutely certain that we lynch the right person tomorrow. I would much rather lynch J and trust his promise to not kill anyone, but you do not seem willing to do that. You think that smart jester behavior is inherently anti-town, and you do not trust my word that J would keep his promise, so while I would much rather give J what I believe is a well-deserved win...I don't think that's going to happen at this point, not unless somebody changes their mind drastically.

Alternatively, we could lynch J and give both Luster and J their wins. But y'know. If people absolutely refuse to do that, I can't change their minds.

Sorry, @The_J, I tried. :/
 
@LuckycoolHawk9 If the biggest hangup with lynching J is really worrying about him betraying us...how about this. We lynch Luster. Luster is a neutral, and would provide the same safe ratios, while still giving me and Pen a chance to locate the final mafia.

I honestly hate this plan and wouldn't be suggesting it if I thought there was still a chance of somebody changing their vote to J, because it frankly takes the win away from Luster and potentially also from J if you still don't want to lynch him tomorrow, but it is still a way to give us that chance to make absolutely certain that we lynch the right person tomorrow. I would much rather lynch J and trust his promise to not kill anyone, but you do not seem willing to do that. You think that smart jester behavior is inherently anti-town, and you do not trust my word that J would keep his promise, so while I would much rather give J what I believe is a well-deserved win...I don't think that's going to happen at this point, not unless somebody changes their mind drastically.

Alternatively, we could lynch J and give both Luster and J their wins. But y'know. If people absolutely refuse to do that, I can't change their minds.

Sorry, @The_J, I tried. :/
This whole post is you explaining your bias for J and you're offering no helpful strategies except to further extend it when we have evidence from a player who's little actions are extremely suspicious. Whether J deserves to win or not isn't our problem yet you keeping making it so.
 
This whole post is you explaining your bias for J and you're offering no helpful strategies except to further extend it when we have evidence from a player who's little actions are extremely suspicious. Whether J deserves to win or not isn't our problem yet you keeping making it so.
I am trying to make the point that I want the extra day to make damn sure about it. This is the entire reason I suggested lynching Luster. I have a bias for J, yes, but if I have a way to make damn sure of who the mafia is, I want to do that. If this was only about J, I would not have suggested lynching Luster in the first place.
 
I am trying to make the point that I want the extra day to make damn sure about it. This is the entire reason I suggested lynching Luster. I have a bias for J, yes, but if I have a way to make damn sure of who the mafia is, I want to do that. If this was only about J, I would not have suggested lynching Luster in the first place.

If we take this day to be 100% sure, it won't matter in the long run . @Joan, what if the one night observing just reveals that everything we suspected was true? We would be one member sort, it being either you, Pen, Cloudy or I. Let me just explain it this way, say you observe 7.39 and they somehow turn out to NOT be the mafia. If we lynch J or Luster, it doesn't matter. It leaves us with two possible suspects to investigate as mafia. And here's the thing, if we get that second guess wrong based on suspicisons then town is at a loss. Let me explain this more simply, we kill a neutral. We investigate the wrong people as potential mafia, that narrows our number down to five, but at that point one wrong lynch costs the whole game. But what if we lynch 7.39 and we are wrong? It's the same odds. Five members, one mislynch, but you can still investigate the two who voted who you know weren't survivor for mafia. It seems the Jester and survivor are both being town benevolent, so we have our extra vote. We have the play. Let's try it.
 
This whole post is you explaining your bias for J
whole post
Hmm...
I honestly hate this plan
I would much rather lynch J and trust his promise to not kill anyone
I would much rather give J what I believe is a well-deserved win
Sorry, @The_J, I tried. :/
Listed above are all of the examples that could actually be construed as "bias for J". Funny, that.
you're offering no helpful strategies
Well, what do we find in the very opening paragraph of this post? Why, it's a helpful strategy!
how about this. We lynch Luster.
A strategy with extremely low risk, to boot! I think that qualifies as helpful. Let's see... it lets Joan and Pen find out more info to ensure the town lynches the right people... it doesn't let the mafia win... and it doesn't lynch people on minimal evidence!
I get not wanting to lynch me. Your instincts have profiled me under "BAD GUY" and now you don't want to trust me. I've come to accept I'm not getting lynched as I desire. So when I see such a ridiculous attack against such a good, foolproof idea when Joan has been doing nothing but fantastic levels of good for the whole game, I find it quite surprising.
The only real argument against this idea is that is screws over Lusterine, when... who cares but Lusterine? Their win condition doesn't affect the town's.
Of course, the other reason for you to not want to follow Joan's idea is if you're the last surviving mafia member. This, however, seems unlikely.
 
If we take this day to be 100% sure, it won't matter in the long run . @Joan, what if the one night observing just reveals that everything we suspected was true? We would be one member sort, it being either you, Pen, Cloudy or I. Let me just explain it this way, say you observe 7.39 and they somehow turn out to NOT be the mafia. If we lynch J or Luster, it doesn't matter. It leaves us with two possible suspects to investigate as mafia. And here's the thing, if we get that second guess wrong based on suspicisons then town is at a loss. Let me explain this more simply, we kill a neutral. We investigate the wrong people as potential mafia, that narrows our number down to five, but at that point one wrong lynch costs the whole game. But what if we lynch 7.39 and we are wrong? It's the same odds. Five members, one mislynch, but you can still investigate the two who voted who you know weren't survivor for mafia. It seems the Jester and survivor are both being town benevolent, so we have our extra vote. We have the play. Let's try it.
The town loses nothing if a neutral is lynched the only other kill is by the mafia. It's just another day to be sure. If it really does come up as 7.39 being the mafia? That's fine! The town can still win! Nothing of importance has been lost - it's not like this game makes the townies win individually.
 
If we take this day to be 100% sure, it won't matter in the long run . @Joan, what if the one night observing just reveals that everything we suspected was true? We would be one member sort, it being either you, Pen, Cloudy or I. Let me just explain it this way, say you observe 7.39 and they somehow turn out to NOT be the mafia. If we lynch J or Luster, it doesn't matter. It leaves us with two possible suspects to investigate as mafia. And here's the thing, if we get that second guess wrong based on suspicisons then town is at a loss. Let me explain this more simply, we kill a neutral. We investigate the wrong people as potential mafia, that narrows our number down to five, but at that point one wrong lynch costs the whole game. But what if we lynch 7.39 and we are wrong? It's the same odds. Five members, one mislynch, but you can still investigate the two who voted who you know weren't survivor for mafia. It seems the Jester and survivor are both being town benevolent, so we have our extra vote. We have the play. Let's try it.
I'm confused--if you think the jester is town benevolent, why were you arguing so strongly that his behavior was anti-town earlier?
As the main part of your argument...I'm not sure I agree with your risk analysis there. Five people, yes, but town will not be able to get majority, and I do not want to rely upon neutrals in that scenario. Luster, in particular, I do not trust in that scenario, since they have actually threatened to vote with mafia before.
However...I would be willing to accept it if @The_J promises to vote with town. I don't blame him if he doesn't want to, though. However, I will not accept if @Lusterine promises to vote with town, because yes I am biased and trust Luster less than I trust J.
 
I like to point out that everyone one of my arguments have been coming from worst case scenarios I ran through. In all honesty, I would rather vote 7.39 up today because it does two very important things. 1) If they are mafia, we win the game. 2) If they are town, we know someone is lying and have to reexamine our choices and who to trust. Obviously if they are town, then you know to track me or @CloudyBlueDay tonight. Because if 7.39 is town, one of us is lying and the other is telling the truth.
 
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However...I would be willing to accept it if @The_J promises to vote with town. I don't blame him if he doesn't want to, though. However, I will not accept if @Lusterine promises to vote with town, because yes I am biased and trust Luster less than I trust J.
I realized I worded this poorly...I will accept voting 7.39 up tonight if at least J promises to vote with town. Even if he doesn't promise to vote with town and Luster does, however, I will not accept this plan.
 
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