Yaoi/Yuri fan? Why?

[Minibit]

I'm looking for reasons besides "It's hot lol herpderp"

Personally, I enjoy yaoi and yuri fiction equally, in fact I find myself enjoying and seeking it out more than I do hetero romance stories.

Thinking about it, I think my reasoning is split a few ways

1) Because of the social pitfalls and expectations of gay/lesbian couples today, stories about gay/lesbian relationships have an obligation to go deeper into the characters than a typical straight romance does. They almost require elements of self-acceptance, determination, and courage just to get the relationship GOING that straight characters don't normally need to as much.

2) It's a change of pace. I read, watched, and was subjected to straight romances all through my childhood and early teen years. Gay marriage wasn't even close to legal when I was a kid, and especially being raised religious, the very topic was considered taboo and disgusting among most people I hung out with. Reading romantic stories with the different dynamics of a gay relationship rather than the usual boy-meets-girl is refreshing and more interesting for me

3) Hetero romances (99% of the ones I've seen, and I've seen a lot) tend to featurehunky guys and feminine girls, neither of which do I find attractive or relatable. Even if a guy is portrayed as waifish or emo, he's still unlikely to be shown as wimpy or unreliable; the leaner, more bishie men seem to have the same strength and stoic nature of the hunky guys, just without the excess muscle. It may just be the selections I've read, but yaoi and yuri stories seem to feature more relatable, 'average' heroes and heroines, at least from my POV.


What about you? If you enjoy yaoi or yuri (manga, fanfic, or any other medium), what is it about it that you love?

 

[Nightwing]

I actually am a pansexual male but i have a character i love named Charlie who actually startedout as a female and is now midstage throu his trnsition to be a male. He is pansexual. I personally agree with all of your reasonings. To add on,i believe that its more comfortable to do a yaoi or yuri romance due to my sexuality in general. I was raised religious and i still frequent my church i take my niece and nephew when i can so yeah.

 

[determinator]

To be honest, between the two, I probably prefer yuri.

That's not saying much, though, because I don't have much of an opinion otherwise. This doesn't mean I dislike them; I tend to gravitate away from anything romance-based, no matter the sexuality. When I do read romance, I don't care what kind of people are involved, because while the dynamics are great to consider in relation to the real world, people are still people to me regardless of any identifier.

Unrelated to yaoi and yuri, but a manga I particularly enjoyed when reading it was Hourou Musuko. It is, in short (if you don't recognize it) about two protagonists who are transgender—one is trans girl, the other trans boy. It's slow-paced and goes through their life in school while grappling with their identities and meeting other transgendered people. (No goofy antics here; it's soft.) I don't know if it was ever actually ended, but it was thoroughly enjoyable while I read it.

Again, completely unrelated to yaoi/yuri, because it's not romance, but I felt it worth mentioning since it's in the same vein, if you will.

edit: But it's not for everyone, really. I'm sure there are better recommendations to be made (and I'm open to them). It's horrendously slow-paced and doesn't always seem realistic, but it's also a manga, haha.

 

[Nightwing]

Could you perhaps send me a link to an online reading for that series?

 

[Sidhe]

Because I'm a big fat lesbian and I also enjoy role-playing big fat lesbians. Representation! Yeah!

Seriously though, I role-play a lot of M/M for a girl who is strictly attracted to other women. I just enjoy it? I don't know. It also helps that there are more M/M role-players than there are F/F role-players. I role-played a lot of M/M when I was younger, and many of my favourite characters happen to be gay males. I dig it. It probably helps somewhat with my penis-envy, too.

You talk about more relatable characters, but honestly, in most media that is labeled 'yaoi/yuri' (and strictly those terms, which is why I try... not to use them...) I find the characters to be offensive stereotypes at worst. In yaoi you have your typical "ukes" that make me cringe, and the "semes" aren't much better. Yuri is often just terrible, because it is mostly written by straight men who have no desire to write intricate characters, and are just looking at it from a sex/fetish standpoint. On the odd occasion I find a yuri manga/story that isn't like that, I praise the sky.

In yaoi there is so much glorified rape that it makes me uncomfortable. It so often seems to stick within generic gender roles, even if both of the characters are male. The 'bottom' is indecisive, plays hard to get, and can't take care of himself; he often gets taken advantage of and they play it off as safe, consensual sex. He has all of the traditional traits of women in similar genres. Idk. I just find that there is a lot of issues with media traditionally labeled yaoi/yuri and I try not to consume it. :(

Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, though! I edited this because I realized what I wrote might have come off as a bit offensive. I really don't mean to be, these are just issues that I've had personally, and why I don't enjoy it...

 

[Minibit]

Because I'm a big fat lesbian and I also enjoy role-playing big fat lesbians. Representation! Yeah!

Seriously though, I role-play a lot of M/M for a girl who is strictly attracted to other women. I just enjoy it? I don't know. It also helps that there are more M/M role-players than there are F/F role-players. I just role-played a lot of M/M when I was younger, and many of my favourite characters happen to be gay males. It's just something I like. It probably helps somewhat with my penis-envy, too.

You talk about more relatable characters, but honestly, in most media that is labeled 'yaoi/yuri' (and strictly those terms, which is why I try... not to use them...) I find the characters to be offensive stereotypes at worst. In yaoi you have your typical "ukes" that make me cringe, and the "semes" aren't much better. Yuri is just horrible, mostly because it is written by straight men who have no desire to write intricate characters, and are just looking at it from a sex/fetish standpoint.

In yaoi there is so much glorified rape that it makes me uncomfortable. It so often seems to stick within generic gender roles, even if both of the characters are male. Idk. I just find that there is a lot of issues with media traditionally labeled yaoi/yuri and I try not to consume it. :(

OMG I know what you mean about the Ukes, Semes, and glorified rape scene. First time is ALWAYS a rape in yaoi and I hate it. I found that out when I first got into the genre, I read three stories that started like that, complained about it to a friend, and she confirmed it was the majority. Since then I've made it a point to search for recomendations of yaoi without rapes or other stereotypes of the genre, and have enjoyed it a lot more. Similarly, I go by the covers and by recomendations with yuri to separate the fap-fodder from the stories. However, when looking for hetero romances, even asking for reccomendations to avoid damsel heroines and hunky heroes, I still tend to end up with characters who, while they may get explored more than in some shallower fictions, still represent the shy, damsel of a hero who looks to the hunky, 'I've got to get stronger!' male hero to give her life a meaning. IDK, like I said, I haven't read oodles of any romantic genre, and I'm certain I haven't read enough to be able to say that "most gay/lesbian characters are better represented than hetero ones" or the converse, but in my experience I have found it easier to avoid the cringe-y stereotypes in yaoi and yuri than in hetero romances.

 

[determinator]

Could you perhaps send me a link to an online reading for that series?

Hourou Musuko
As a bonus, IS (not transgender, but intersex)

Because I'm a big fat lesbian and I also enjoy role-playing big fat lesbians. Representation! Yeah!

Seriously though, I role-play a lot of M/M for a girl who is strictly attracted to other women. I just enjoy it? I don't know. It also helps that there are more M/M role-players than there are F/F role-players. I role-played a lot of M/M when I was younger, and many of my favourite characters happen to be gay males. I dig it. It probably helps somewhat with my penis-envy, too.

You talk about more relatable characters, but honestly, in most media that is labeled 'yaoi/yuri' (and strictly those terms, which is why I try... not to use them...) I find the characters to be offensive stereotypes at worst. In yaoi you have your typical "ukes" that make me cringe, and the "semes" aren't much better. Yuri is often just terrible, because it is mostly written by straight men who have no desire to write intricate characters, and are just looking at it from a sex/fetish standpoint. On the odd occasion I find a yuri manga/story that isn't like that, I praise the sky.

In yaoi there is so much glorified rape that it makes me uncomfortable. It so often seems to stick within generic gender roles, even if both of the characters are male. The 'bottom' is indecisive, plays hard to get, and can't take care of himself; he often gets taken advantage of and they play it off as safe, consensual sex. He has all of the traditional traits of women in similar genres. Idk. I just find that there is a lot of issues with media traditionally labeled yaoi/yuri and I try not to consume it. :(

Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, though! I edited this because I realized what I wrote might have come off as a bit offensive. I really don't mean to be, these are just issues that I've had personally, and why I don't enjoy it...

I get where you're coming from and these reasons are most of why I don't really read either one.
Either way, romance in manga (or in general) is full to the brim of stereotypes no matter what sexualities are involved (which is why I don't read 'em). It's hard to find a strong female protagonist, it's hard to find a male protagonist that isn't GONNA BE THE KING OF PIRATES, both yaoi (and bara) and yuri are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay sexualized and don't always bother to deal with the emotional side of their relationships, etc.

And sometimes the proponents of the fandom don't help things, either.
No offense to any of you, but I see a lot of monkey see, monkey do offline. It happens in the manga, therefore it must be real, better go ask my gay friends which one of them is the uke uke kawaii one.

 

[Parsee Mizuhashi]

I think my attraction to yuri in general just comes from exposure. A lot of the anime I watch end up having largely female casts in general, and I'm heavily into the Touhou Project fandom. Considering most of these anime end up having lesbian overtones, and there's an abundance of shipping in my fandom, it just feels pretty right. On the other hand, I dislike most yaoi. Not all of it, but most. I'm just not into the masculine guys featured in some.

 

[Blind Hemingway]

There's no love for us demisexuals. :( Wait that has nothing to do with this thread. Carry on, mates.

I find both genres kinda silly at heart. But tropes are tropes and characters aren't actual people, so to each their own.

 

[the legacy.]

Ugghh yassssss. ;w; <3 Idk if it's because I'm gay orrrrr what but yes, I adore yaoi / yuri . xD Idk I like them better than hetero. .-.

 

[Razilin]

i'll be honest, even though minibit will probably hate me for this, i heart yuri because of simple math:

1 + 1 = 2

 

[CoffeeCake]

I used to read some of both. I still like the subtle, non-explicit stuff where it's clear the two characters care a lot about each other but it may not be so clear whether or not they're interested in shagging. I find that "relatable". Or at least I feel like I used to know what that felt like.

There's no love for us demisexuals. :( Wait that has nothing to do with this thread. Carry on, mates.

I find both genres kinda silly at heart. But tropes are tropes and characters aren't actual people, so to each their own.

Thing about this is you'll notice in a lot of fandoms, characters who behave more asexual or demi-sexual are typically assumed to be obviously gay by default, much as in real life (if you've seen the documentary, remember how many times David Jay was asked if he was sure he didn't just mean to say he was gay?).

 

[determinator]

I used to read some of both. I still like the subtle, non-explicit stuff where it's clear the two characters care a lot about each other but it may not be so clear whether or not they're interested in shagging. I find that "relatable". Or at least I feel like I used to know what that felt like.



Thing about this is you'll notice in a lot of fandoms, characters who behave more asexual or demi-sexual are typically assumed to be obviously gay by default, much as in real life (if you've seen the documentary, remember how many times David Jay was asked if he was sure he didn't just mean to say he was gay?).

And even outside the documentary, it's true. I'm sure some people would make the assumption that lol, just because he's the spokesperson (so to speak), doesn't mean it actually happens.

It's anecdotal but it's pretty funny that people just assume I'm homosexual. I've got no problem with it, honestly. They're welcome to the assumption, because it's no skin off my back.

But as it is with fandoms—this is going to sound horrendously jaded—if their sexuality is ambiguous in any way at all, the character(s) in question are automatically gay, no questions asked, no arguments accepted. They could show every sign of being aromantic asexual, for example, but because their company is largely their own sex, we can't know what's happening between panels or time skips.

Yes this does annoy me.
I understand the reasoning, though. Because there is no proper representation in any media for MOGII (is this appropriate to use here? Some people are offended by the acronym), there's an urge to project it on anything that gives the chance of doing so, like automatically assuming any crossdressing character is transgender or the aforementioned idea of proposing a sexuality on a (n albeit fake) character that may or may not be canonically true.

Excuse me while I take my mild butthurt out of here so I don't bring down the party, lmao. TL;DR my problems in yaoi/yuri are mixed between the approach to how they're written, and sometimes how they're taken and applied. "They're _____ because I say so" isn't enough proof for me to jump on that bandwagon, but I do admit that I'm not the type to assume genders or sexualities if they're not expressed anyway.

/shrug

edit: I don't mean to sound offending, but I do realize my manner of communication is pretty blunt. So if I'm offending you, do say so. I'm not trying to bash these things so much as express discontent with them, and I'm always unsure where the line of that is pressed for every person, haha.

 

[CoffeeCake]

Don't feel bad. You basically said what I deleted from my post once I realized I was up on mah soapbox again. :D

 

[phantasmagoricStoner]

Between yaoi and yuri, I prefer yaoi. I do like hetero romance but some of them can get a bit cheesy. Plus, I dislike some of their drawings as some of the girls are drawn super super skinny in the manga.

I'm not sure why, and I don't think it's because I'm a female. I have a female friend who's into GirlXGirl whenever it comes to fanfic. For me, whenever I see anything yuri, I tend to cringe. I get a bit uncomfortable as I go to an all girls' school and I'm surrounded by girls. So, it gets weird. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of real life yuri couples in my school. I don't hate or dislike yuri, I just feel uncomfortable whenever I see it. I guess, I prefer to stay away from yuri anime and manga, or any anime with a lot of girls in it like Love Live! and such. Except K-ON. I like that. Although, I sometimes wonder how yuri smut is written or drawn.

I absolutely hate it when there's a show/manga/anime about friendship between a girl and a girl or a guy and a guy, then the fandom starts to make weird shit and turn it yaoi or yuri. Like, the whole thing is about friendship not romance/sex etc.

As for yaoi, my friend got me hooked onto it after making me listen to a Lucky Dog drama CD. Plus, maybe I'm into it because I've been surrounded by girls most of my schooling years and I've not been in a Boy-Girl class/school before. I'm not really sure as to why I like it. There aren't many reasons. Maybe it's because I was influenced. I guess, it's different to my normal everyday life. None of my family members know I like it, except my brother. But, when it comes to the characters having sex, I stay away from it as I find it quite painful. I generally like fluff and everyday life stuff when it comes to yaoi.

Oh wow... I sound like I don't really know myself...

 

[Ty Lee]

For me, I tend to like Yuri over Yaoi.

It's a biased personal preference I guess, I enjoy exploring the ins and outs of such things, and being a gay woman myself who's yet to experience anything I write beyond a kiss and a hug, it's almost as if I'm learning about it on another level. There's no physical contact between writers - well, maybe there is, but I'm too far into meta bullshit which often confuses people. The main point is, I'm still learning about everything, as I'm sure most people are as well. I don't write only for the hell of it, I want something out of it, anything to help me grow as a person, with my views and whatnot.

This isn't to say that I wouldn't try Yaoi, it's a genuine misconception that because I'm heavily Yuri-based or whatever, means I can't do the other end of things (but one has to think a little, they're basically the same thing, different parts and all, but we needn't divide male and female further)
I honestly would wish to try Yaoi, but as mentioned above, the general scene surrounding it puts me off. Though, that kind of makes me look weak, because yknow, I don't have to go with those kinds of things. It's just finding the right person, I guess this is what it boils down to.

To be honest with you, the same can be said about yuri. I've tried straight up sexual plots and the like regarding Yuri, and it does turn me away from such things. Saying a balance in plot and sex is rather... Well, it's gonna be changed in my roleplay resume, let me tell you now.

And yeah, sometimes I do get stuck in the moment. It's nice to feel something beyond what seems to be reality, I get a real thrill from that. It doesn't have to be smut heavy or anything, if the right situation presents itself, I just about go into a trance or something along those lines, and it's honestly pleasurable to me to feel that strong feeling, I'm getting pulled into it and my entire being is being thrown into it. I'm a writer at the very core, and no matter how I'm feeling (because yes, I'm probably still teenagely hormonal and all of that shit, it's offputting most times) all I wish to do is create something which transcends sex, and love, and all of that. I want to go beyond that, and create something epic, something which will remain within me for life. There's only been ONE instance of this happening with me, that was with a friend of mine, she's amazingly good and after two years the rp is still going. It's great, honestly. The gripping tensions, the teamwork, the hardships and the love making all tie in so very well.

In conclusion; I guess, everyone still has their 'to each their own' but there are of course real issues with not only homosexual relations, but heterosexual as well. The fact that -romantic kinds of relations are seldom mentioned is problematic enough, people will think that sex is definitely involved, when most of the time, it's completely optional. I've not enjoyed the last few sex scenes I've been a part of, so I'm going to change that one day. For now, allow all other facets of Yuri/Yaoi to be explored!

 

[Melpothalia]

I dunno why I like yaoi and yuri as much as I do, but I do :> I'm incredibly picky when it comes to it though, 'specially since most yuri is made for hetero males by hetero males and includes lots of groanworthy junk I just can't jive with.

Regardless of gender, romance is nothing without chemistry. Zero chemistry = zero interest. Yaoi and Yuri (well, the good ones at least) tend to shake it up more than the typical hetero romance.

 

[Dawn]

I like it all equally. As many have said, there are pros and cons on both sides and for me, it really does depend on the specific manga/anime itself rather than the genre.

As for why I like it, I think it boils down to one of my beliefs: love knows not gender.

At the end of the day, I'm going to fall in love with someone because of their personality and how well we click rather than their gender or sex or physical appearance. This opened my mind up wide to relationships outside of heterosexual.

And because I'm a big ol pervert, I rather enjoy these dirty stories. :P

We complain about yaoi and yuri playing up stereotypes and taboo topics, but we need to keep in mind that these are erotic stories, not to mention that most of them are written for an audience that is the opposite sex as the couple. (this is why the uke in yaoi is girly; girls will relate to the character)

If you are looking for a better representation, a more realistic one, try shounen-ai or shoujo-ai. The story is most often more focused on the characters and the relationship rather than the kinks of the sexual world.

I guess what I'm saying is that yaoi and yuri is supposed to be full of stereotype and taboo. It's supposed to make you feel a little uncomfortable for liking it. That's what makes it so addicting in a sense. If you're looking for true blue love stories that relate to the real world, you're barking up the wrong tree. o_o

 

[Fyrra]

I'm a romance junkie, and what I refer to as yaoi / yuri is typically what the "-ai" subgenre is. It rolls off the tongue more easily, and it gets people to stop asking questions when they start poking their noses into my collection of pdfs and books. This probably has to do with the fact that I grew up in a religious household and never quite felt right with their faith, though it could just as easily be that I've had terrible luck with relationships myself, or that I'm a <insert gender here> who's attracted to <insert gender that society doesn't want me to be attracted to here>, or maybe it's just that I'm willing to bend my own preferences for somebody whose personality really meshes with mine.

So, I enjoy the stories. Stories about two (or three, or more) people who would go against their own nature to protect somebody, especially with the odds and society against them, but where they stay together despite everything make me all squishy inside. But, whenever I go looking for stories, this sort of stuff is overshadowed by blatant, shallow fanservice (yuri), rape and stockholm after-effects (yaoi), or the characters are too bland to be interesting to me (almost every popular published work in english, ever). So, sometimes I'm stuck with roleplays, because if I want to see a story that caters to my interests, I usually have to make it myself.

Especially if I want the crossdressing femboy character to have enough of a backbone to knock some asshole's teeth in for slinging slurs about, because I've seen the kinds of crap guys put up with when people think they aren't being masculine. Hourou Musuko actually touches on this subject, even if the person who faced the majority of the bigotry wasn't a guy. It's one of the few portrayals of such topics that doesn't make me want to slam my face on the keyboard. And that isn't just because f/f stuff happened involving her, though it is kind of a plus. :3

But, maybe I want to see two crossdressing guys help one another survive in the world. Maybe I'd like to see two toppish guys bonding over things, rather than one needing the other to show signs of weakness before any connection is made. Maybe I'd like to see two women have a story that isn't just about shopping, spas, days at the beach, and high school. Maybe I'd like to see them save the world, without anybody commenting about "So which one's the guy and which one's the girl?" Sure, there's a lot of femme-femme lesbian couples in media, but what about butch-butch? What about women who aren't really butch but aren't overtly feminine either? Actually, let's take it a step further: let's try to find a story about a transwoman who's involved with another woman, but who isn't "the masculine one" in the relationship. Let's find a story about a transguy who's not "the feminine one" in his relationship with a guy. Let's find some stories in which the protagonist is heterosexual, and they don't give the transsexual partner of their crap for whatever past they might have had.

I don't mean this as a legitimate challenge. These stories probably do exist, and they aren't even what I really desire in my media, apart from maybe the "lesbian action heroes" thing. The reason I'm a fan of same-sex storylines in my comics, books, games and cartoons simply boils down to me being sick of hearing about some movie or book, going to see it, and having a shallow heterosexual "romance" between two mutually abusive people while they react to "wacky" situations forced down my throat. It happens in comedies, spoofs, action movies, horror films, fantasies, science-fiction, crime dramas, westerns... The sick part is that the spoofs sometimes handle it better than the stories that take themselves seriously. So when male/male and female/female stories do come up in fiction, the plot is usually a form of "Hey look at these people and how different they are and what they have to put up with." I understand why it happens, but at the same time it feels like the movie people are trying to turn glbt plot elements into their own genre, making it into a novelty.

I should be insulted, but I'm just glad to see a movie where certain annoying staples to every movie get passed over. "Braveheart" could have done with William Wallace having a night with the king's son as well as the woman his son was supposed to marry as an even bigger middle finger to the crown. "Mercy Thompson" could have had the female auto mechanic protagonist not lead her werewolf neighbor on, or let him get away with "I protected you so you're mine now" views on relationships, even though his "protection" was more of a tantrum the guy threw after Mercy killed the guy who hurt her. Hell, even the spinoff could have had some very interesting possibilities had that protagonist not settled for the first guy who wasn't an abusive jackass to her almost immediately. I mean, the author's cool enough to have the second-most badass guy in the main cast be a gay cowboy who will wreck someone's poopoo despite being mauled to the point of having trouble walking as he does so, so why not more spotlight on those sorts of things in the middle of a supernatural mystery story?

I have to rely on Japan and fans of their exports for fun stories. But that's okay. It's kind of a friendship-building experience.

 

[Alexa Ray]

Yuri... I just like the idea of seeing two females engaging in that sort of activity... improbablyweirdforsayingthat