R
Razilin
Guest
Original poster
Fair point. They do resemble Necromorphs, but I would prefer these more inventive 'Dead Space-y' designs to the old, in my opinion generic monster types of the older games. Im also a fan of the Dead Space series, so there may be a bit of bias there. Not quite sure.
I'd have to disagree on that one. I find the older monster designs to be generic and boring, while the newer ones to me have a lot more interesting designs and concepts, especially in Resident Evil 6.I am a Dead Space fan too, but to be entirely honest, the older monster designs had more personality.
Fair enough, but what about the older games do you enjoy more? What about the newer games do you not enjoy? What do you define as 'horror'?
I see, I see. The atmosphere has certainly changed, though for me it changed for the better. I do agree that the older games were far more complicated, but I personally dont like complicated things, so I prefer the more linear, streamlined approach later games took.It's a little hard to explain really, but it was more of a certain feel. The atmosphere to me felt different in the earlier games. They were more complicated than the ones today in my opinion. I guess I can't say that it had more horror because I was a kid when I played it and that had a factor in it unlike now in which i'm older so it doesen't scare me much.
Im not sure what my deal is, but I really do like how the story has progressed in the games. I dont find them off the wall at all, and I cant really explain why. Same thing goes for the movies. For some reason or another, I just find myself really loving the newer Resident Evil games and the movies far more than the old series, though I did enjoy Revelations quite a lot. Not my favorite, but I did like it more than Resident Evil 5. If I had to list them, it'd go #I: Resident Evil 6, #II: Resident Evil 4 and #III: Resident Evil: Revelations.REmake is my favourite game in the series. Cannot, cannot wait for the rerelease next year.
There's nothing inherently wrong with some of the newer Resident Evil games, although they have lost a great deal of the horror and atmosphere that the earlier games had, replacing survival horror tension with more shooty shoot mcbang mcbang, but it doesn't mean it's neccessarily bad. I've enjoyed every Resident Evil game to have come out so far, although 6 was just... a bit of a mess in a lot of ways, and good portions of it wasn't fun. But then you have Resident Evil 5, which was an absolute blast to play with my girlfriend, and Revelations which I loved a lot.
I think one of the things that irks me about the series is the storyline and how increasingly absurd it's become. Resident Evil has always been a bit over the top and cheesy, but the way in which the story has evolved is pretty... silly. From Wesker being brought back to life and given SUPER BADASS NEO MOVES to whatever the hell he was doing in 5 and having some clone/son thing in 6, not to mention an Ada clone/lookalike as well it's just... storywise it's kind of gone off the rails at this point.
I really wouldn't mind a Resident Evil reboot that did away with all this and started afresh. Gameplay wise, I'd like it to be a good mix of both the earlier games' tension and puzzle focused gameplay, but also give it some of the nice action gameplay and set pieces of 4-6. Revelations hit this blend pretty nicely, and I'm glad to see Revelations 2 coming out, but if they put a bit more of this kind of effort into a full reboot, it'd definitely have my attention.
Movies are kind of all over the place, for the reasons Derv mentioned. The first film is still pretty good, and I have a soft spot for the second (dat Jill), but everything after was just kind of subpar and poor.
On the topic of horror games, I've been playing The Evil Within at the moment. Any thoughts on that from anyone, considering it's by Mikami?
Good Lord, im not the only person in the world who prefers the newer games! Hallelujah!I only have Resident Evil 5, but I've played some of the older games before. I don't actually find the series scary at all, even though I'm scared quite easily by horror games. I personally prefer the newer Resident Evils.
Resident Evil 3 wasnt scary to me because I dont like not being able to fight back. If all I can do is run away, i'd rather just die. It's why I dont like games like Outlast and Amnesia. It's also why Resident Evil 3 is particularly low on my list of favorite Resident Evil games. Running away from a near immortal killing machine isnt scary to me; it's immensely irritating. I can think of a dozen or so ways to trap the damn thing, or attempt to poison it, burn it to ashes, the list goes on, but none of those things are available to you for the majority of Resident Evil 3, so I was constantly annoyed and pissed off playing through that game.Resident Evil 3 was the shit.
Seriously, what's not scary about being chased through a city by a massive, nigh-unkillable murder machine with a face that would make Satan shit his pants and a predisposition towards giant guns?
Resident Evil 4 was also the shit.
Kickass new direction for the series. The first time those villagers come piling in through the windows to the place you thought you were safe, you're guaranteed to get the fear. Also...
Resident Evil 5 was... fun enough, I guess.
It felt a bit more scattershot in it's direction and setting than the previous games had been. I get the appeal of a globe-trotting adventure thing, but Resident Evil 4 sticks to variations of the same general area and manages to do far more with this whilst retaining some consistency. Also...
He's punching a boulder why is he punching a boulder what's even happening now holy shit Chris just beat the shit out of a boulder
Resident Evil 6... well, it was kind of a big steamy mess.
Consistency is out the window; Capcom is trying to make three very different games and mash them into one, failing to note that splitting your devs between three different styles of game is gonna make each of them lackluster at best. There's some cool character appearances in there, don't get me wrong (nice to see Sherry again, for example), but most of it feels like dull retreads of where the series has been before. Like that one BOW, Ustanak? Boring derivative of Nemesis if ever there was one.
Beat me to it.The little 'black' bars in The Evil Within are meant so you can't see below you and above you. If you want to look up, then go ahead, but it removes your view of your feet. It was made like that to give a horror aspect and the story made sense. Also, It really is no surprise that The Evil Within seems like Resident Evil seeing as the director of the Resident Evil games directed The Evil Within.
It didnt do anything but piss me off and get me killed, those stupid black bars..I dont find it good game design to remove vital view points from the player, especially during high tension segments. Also, the story didnt make sense to me at all. Ive played the game through twice and read up on the story from multiple forums and sites, and I still dont get it. That game is what I'd call a true abysmal, mess of a game. If you enjoyed it, then by all means enjoy it. I cant stand it, myself.The little 'black' bars in The Evil Within are meant so you can't see below you and above you. If you want to look up, then go ahead, but it removes your view of your feet. It was made like that to give a horror aspect and the story made sense. Also, It really is no surprise that The Evil Within seems like Resident Evil seeing as the director of the Resident Evil games directed The Evil Within.
And to me, that's poor game design. The black bars didnt give me any tension; they pissed me off and got me killed a lot. Screw those black bars.Beat me to it.
It was specifically stated by the director that the black bars were there so you couldn't see what was on top or below you. "To add a constant sense of tension"
Resident Evil 3 wasnt scary to me because I dont like not being able to fight back. If all I can do is run away, i'd rather just die.
Hm, I can see your point. A core element in horror is disempowerment, but I never liked this aspect because I could always think of a way within the universe and my surroundings to kill whatever it was I needed to kill, or at least trap it or slow it way the hell down, so I was always miffed when horror games wouldnt let me do that. As for Alien: Isolation, I couldnt stand that game for the same reason as Resident Evil 3. I dont like running away from something I know I can kill if the game would just let me craft whatever I wanted from anything and everything in the environment around me. Beyond that, I just found that game to be really really boring. I played it for about 4 or 5 hours before I sold it to a friend.That's kind of a core tenet of a good horror game, though.
Horror's about disempowerment. It's about making you feel alone and isolated and scared, knowing that there's all manner of gribbly horror-things ready to fuck you up if you don't play your cards right. Some games (Outlast and Amnesia) achieve this by refusing to let the player use weapons at all, because you're playing as some unfortunate regular-ass Joe Journalist/Sam Scientist who didn't attend the Gordon Freeman School of Inexplicable Firearms Training. Or you can go down the Alien: Isolation route of giving the player access to firearms... but at the end of the day you're going up against a fucking Xenomorph, so that pussy-ass revolver just isn't gonna cut it.
A game isn't a horror game just because it's got blood and guts and other assorted grossness in it. A horror game needs to instill a sense of dread.
You shouldn't be able to win every battle in these sorts of games. Sometimes, you've got to run the fuck away.
And a giant, hulking mutant monstrosity is a good way to instill this in the player.
I only played the first Dead Space and I really enjoyed it, but I didn't really see it as a scary game. I think I jumped more playing online shooters where I got shot unexpectedly when I'm concentrating that I did in Dead Space and games like it where it's really empowering. There's nothing really scary about being able to hold your ground, mow down most of the bad guys, relocate when they get close, and then repeat the feat until the area's cleared, at least not to me. It just kind of kills the immersion.Hm, I can see your point. A core element in horror is disempowerment, but I never liked this aspect because I could always think of a way within the universe and my surroundings to kill whatever it was I needed to kill, or at least trap it or slow it way the hell down, so I was always miffed when horror games wouldnt let me do that. As for Alien: Isolation, I couldnt stand that game for the same reason as Resident Evil 3. I dont like running away from something I know I can kill if the game would just let me craft whatever I wanted from anything and everything in the environment around me. Beyond that, I just found that game to be really really boring. I played it for about 4 or 5 hours before I sold it to a friend.
I suppose in that sense, I like the newer Resident Evil's more because I can always fight back and I always have an option of attack, as opposed to run. I also dont feel a sense of dread from not being able to fight back; like I said, that just irritates me. I get a sense of dread from things like the atmosphere or environment, namely places like the USG Ishimura from Dead Space and the Sprawl from Dead Space 2. Big, empty, eerie silent and isolated in outer freaking space? Yeah, I need the lights on for this one.
As for if one should or shouldnt be able to win every battle, I disagree. I believe any battle can be won if you just stay calm and use every little thing in your surroundings and arsenal to defeat whatever it is that is trying to destroy you. Even if you die trying, you were at least given the option to fight instead of just running away. That way, you can go back and stock up on ammo or materials or whatever and defeat said enemy in round 2.
Giant, hulking mutant monstrosities are certainly strong, but nothing and no one is immune to death. One way or another, those things can and will be killed, so they dont frighten me. The things that frighten me in terms of enemies are things like Gods that are divine and cannot be touched by anything we mere mortals can think up. THAT is the shit that scares me.
Call me stupid or reckless, but in the situations you named (The tank, the bear) I wouldnt run or try and get around it. With the tank, I'd look for anything I could to try and break it. Would I die? Yes, but I wouldnt run. For the bear, same thing. I'd look for anything I could find to kill it. Would I die? Most likely, but again, I wouldnt run. I dont run from things. My fight or flight response has always been fight, even as a kid.I only played the first Dead Space and I really enjoyed it, but I didn't really see it as a scary game. I think I jumped more playing online shooters where I got shot unexpectedly when I'm concentrating that I did in Dead Space and games like it where it's really empowering. There's nothing really scary about being able to hold your ground, mow down most of the bad guys, relocate when they get close, and then repeat the feat until the area's cleared, at least not to me. It just kind of kills the immersion.
The way you describe the whole Gods being untouchable and thus terrifying can be applied to most of the horror games you don't like. There's always going to be situations where you can't just shoot your way out of things and no matter how well you use your environment and weapons at hand, you will lose no matter what. Say you're fighting in a war and you're alone and there's a tank looking for you and you have nothing to attack with with, your only real choice is to retreat. You're in a classroom and a bear breaks in and starts mauling people, your only hope is to get around it while it's mauling somebody else. That last example's ridiculous, I know, but it's kind of the same thing with games. A lot of the games where you have to run from your assailants are terrifying because it forces your body to kick into the flight response (of the fight or flight reaction fame) where basically your body gets so hopped up on chemicals and hormones and you're convinced you'll die if you get caught, and this happens because your body's trying to save your life as a survival mechanism. The opposite of that is the fight response, which you seem to enjoy, which basically has you confronting your adversaries and getting pumped up for confrontation. The difference being instead of your body reacting like "OHSHITOHSHITI'MGIONGTOFUCKIGNDIIIIIE", it's like "OHHH YEAH! GONNA SNAP INTO YOU LIKE A SLIM JIM, BROTHER!" and the perception of danger diminishes. It's part of the reason in a battle, soldiers are able and willing to run towards danger because they condition themselves to turn their flight responses into fight responses.
Amnesia, so far, is the only horror game that's actually scared me because I was able to get immersed in it, which is hard to who when your blowing holes in everything that moves. There's a feeling of apprehension of going forward because you have no idea what's waiting for you, and you're always trying to think of how you can get away and find a place to escape to when you enter a new area, so your mind is constantly running, and then your best laid plans go to shit the minute you encounter something because you have to react.
It helps to get into the mentality of the character you're controlling in the game and allow yourself to forget it's a game. In Amnesia's case, you're a scrawny middle-aged scientist who's encountering horribly mutilated creatures that used to be people that he helped create. Sure, you could pick something up to try to defend yourself, but we're talking about things that are impervious to pain and can break down doors in short order. You don't stand a chance.
Likewise, Alien: Isolation is supposed to be really friggin' scary because they nailed the atmosphere of the first movie and what the Alien is supposed to represent. The thing is the Alien isn't supposed to be easy to gun down, and your character is an engineer without combat training. Sure, you find a revolver and a shotgun and a flame thrower, but they aren't enough to wound the creature enough before it can reach you. You just need to have patience with those kinds of games and get in the mentality that you need to plot your moves to advance instead of riding in the comfort you can kill anything you come across. I mean, if I want to get scared of something, I don't want to feel like I'm playing any other shooter, I want to play something where I feasibly could be trapped in as a regular person and see if I have what it takes to survive.
That's the thing though; you can say you'd react a certain way to such and such situation, but you never know how you'd react in the situation until you're there. I don't doubt you're tough and you haven't encountered many situations you wouldn't stand your ground, but everyone has something that eventually gets to them. Hell, even something like you stirred up a hornet's nest. You don't stand there and take your lumps, you get away from them because you're smart enough to know that getting stung pointlessly is much one of the dumbest things you could do.Call me stupid or reckless, but in the situations you named (The tank, the bear) I wouldnt run or try and get around it. With the tank, I'd look for anything I could to try and break it. Would I die? Yes, but I wouldnt run. For the bear, same thing. I'd look for anything I could find to kill it. Would I die? Most likely, but again, I wouldnt run. I dont run from things. My fight or flight response has always been fight, even as a kid.
Amnesia as ive said before bothers me because I cant fight anything. I get that they're immune to pain and such, but damage is still damage. Just because you cant feel your head being cracked by a bat, doesnt mean your head isnt being cracked by a bat. Pain is just a response to the damage; it doesnt stop the damage if you cant feel the pain.
The Aliens are stupidly easy to gun down from what ive seen of the movies. All you need to do is lay into them and unload, this being made especially easy if one has a Pulse Rifle. I cant tell you how many times I would burn the fucker, rush up on it and shotgun its face, and it wouldnt die. That doesnt make sense to me. I just put a fucking shotgun to your face at point blank range, and you dont die?! Even after I burn you?! Nope. Im done with that bullshit.
I am a regular person, and I know what it takes to survive. My father served 2 tours in Vietnam and taught me every single thing he knew about warfare, survival and combat. When I play average joes, I get so freaking irritated with their oblivious ignorance to the things they could use or to do survive easier and kill their enemies swifter. It's probably another reason I like the newer Resident Evils, because I have the full capability to fight back both effectively and efficiently, especially if we're talking my favorite game universe character, Chris Redfield. That man reminds me of my father in so many ways, its scary. The only difference is that Chris is a white guy, while my dad was African-American. (Adoptive dad, mind you.)