Pathos vs Logos

[Brovo]

Yet another topic I'm curious about Iwaku. Which is more important: Logic, or emotion? Is it better to tell the truth even if it's cold and it hurts? Or is it better to ensure you don't hurt people's feelings, so they will be more receptive to what you have to say?

There is no neutral option intentionally. Keep that in mind.

 

[Kagayours]

I saw the title of this thread and initially thought "I HAVE SO MUCH OPINION TO SHARE", but now I don't, because my views are too graaaaaay...

Also, the question of "should you be truthful or should you lie to protect people's feelings" is not the first thing that came to mind when I read the title. And I'm not really sure how to answer that question, so... perhaps I'll be saving my soap-box for another day.

 

[Razilin]

for the sake of this poll,

but in reality, its more like:

 

[Sidhe]

I dislike this poll because my opinion on the matter is not black and white at all, but I voted emotion because I am a sensitive and intuitive person first and foremost. Unless this poll was specifically for the question you proposed in your post, in which case I favour the truth before feelings.

 

[Brovo]

@Opal This question intentionally omits a third course to force a preference. I doubt most functional people think entirely one way or the other--logically or emotionally. All this question does is remove all other factors and asks what's more important to you, generally.

It forces a choice of preference. Call it a social experiment.

 

[Kagayours]

I dislike this poll because my opinion on the matter is not black and white at all, but I voted emotion because I am a sensitive and intuitive person first and foremost. Unless this poll was specifically for the question you proposed in your post, in which case I favour the truth before feelings.

^ Yeah, I originally wasn't going to vote at all, but, following what Opal said, I decided to vote for emotion, for similar reasons. ...That said, my overall view on the matter is still very gray, and I think it depends a lot on the situation at hand. Also, I don't often equate "logic" with "telling the truth", so... yeah, I might just be misunderstanding this poll altogether. >_>

That said, though, now that I think more about how the poll options are phrased, I do strongly agree with the "no one will listen to you if you're hurting their feelings" bit. It doesn't matter how much cold logic and reasoning you use -- people will reject it if they're uncomfortable with it. If you use logic and reasoning to say something that shatters someone's worldview, it's a lot easier for that person to disregard you completely if they think you're just a cold, uncaring personality than someone they can relate to emotionally. And, yeah, like Opal, I'll admit that I'm a sensitive person, and I tend to take an emotions-based approach to problem-solving first and foremost. That's not to say that logic and reasoning has no role at all in my world, because I'm smarter than that, and there are plenty of instances where logic trumps emotion. But, overall, I've found that a gentle hand is more effective than an iron fist, which is a strategy I use a lot in my GMing and, well, just dealing with people in general. Because, well... we're all internet-users here, and I think we've all seen plenty of examples of someone completely disregarding another person's flawless logic because they didn't like what that person was saying. And, the more that people find your argument cold or harsh or personally offensive, the less likely your perfect logic is to work on that particular person.

As for the question of telling the truth vs lying to protect people's feelings... like I said, this feels like a different question entirely to me, and my feelings on this are even more gray than they are on the topic of "logic vs emotion" by itself. >_> Honestly, I think I'd say that the truth is more important than lying, but that being gentle in how you deliver the truth, and taking the other person's emotions into account, is better than just coldly delivering the truth by itself. So, I know you said there's no in-between option for a reason, but... oh well. That's how I feel about it.

 

[Kagayours]

@Opal This question intentionally omits a third course to force a preference. I doubt most functional people think entirely one way or the other--logically or emotionally. All this question does is remove all other factors and asks what's more important to you, generally.

It forces a choice of preference. Call it a social experiment.

>_> My problem with polls that turn these complex things into a binary option is that it seems to imply that anyone who votes for one option is more clearly aligned with one thing than the other, when, like I said, I definitely think that this sort of thing depends on the situation at hand. Just because I voted "emotion" doesn't mean I would say that emotion trumps logic in all situations or even in a clear majority of situations. And I feel like turning this into a binary, despite the fact that so many people might be very close to the middle, can make it look like there's a clear overall preference for one thing over another -- like, for example, if logic got way more votes than emotion, then it might seem clear that people here, overall, value logic much more than emotion -- but, in actuality, perhaps the majority of people who voted only marginally preferred one thing over the other, making it so that the overall community's preference for logic isn't quite as strong as the poll would make it seem.

This is mostly a personal gripe, though. I understand your reasoning -- I just find binary polls for non-binary issues sort of misrepresentative.

Although I will say that this is definitely further complicated by just the overall grayness of the poll and topic itself. Seriously, this thread feels like it's asking at least two different questions. >~<

 

[Sidhe]

^ Yeah, I originally wasn't going to vote at all, but, following what Opal said, I decided to vote for emotion, for similar reasons. ...That said, my overall view on the matter is still very gray, and I think it depends a lot on the situation at hand. Also, I don't often equate "logic" with "telling the truth", so... yeah, I might just be misunderstanding this poll altogether. >_>

That said, though, now that I think more about how the poll options are phrased, I do strongly agree with the "no one will listen to you if you're hurting their feelings" bit. It doesn't matter how much cold logic and reasoning you use -- people will reject it if they're uncomfortable with it. If you use logic and reasoning to say something that shatters someone's worldview, it's a lot easier for that person to disregard you completely if they think you're just a cold, uncaring personality than someone they can relate to emotionally. And, yeah, like Opal, I'll admit that I'm a sensitive person, and I tend to take an emotions-based approach to problem-solving first and foremost. That's not to say that logic and reasoning has no role at all in my world, because I'm smarter than that, and there are plenty of instances where logic trumps emotion. But, overall, I've found that a gentle hand is more effective than an iron fist, which is a strategy I use a lot in my GMing and, well, just dealing with people in general. Because, well... we're all internet-users here, and I think we've all seen plenty of examples of someone completely disregarding another person's flawless logic because they didn't like what that person was saying. And, the more that people find your argument cold or harsh or personally offensive, the less likely your perfect logic is to work on that particular person.

As for the question of telling the truth vs lying to protect people's feelings... like I said, this feels like a different question entirely to me, and my feelings on this are even more gray than they are on the topic of "logic vs emotion" by itself. >_> Honestly, I think I'd say that the truth is more important than lying, but that being gentle in how you deliver the truth, and taking the other person's emotions into account, is better than just coldly delivering the truth by itself. So, I know you said there's no in-between option for a reason, but... oh well. That's how I feel about it.

yeah. I think a lot of 'logic is the most important thing in the world, emotion has no place' folks really, really underestimate the importance of appealing to emotion when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Humans aren't machines. You can't just give someone a command without considering their feelings at all and hope that they'll understand and comply immediately. If you want someone to do something for you, or someone to understand your approach to life, you need to treat them like a human being. Everyone is motivated by some kind of emotion or need. The sooner you understand that, and the sooner you learn to work with it, the easier time you'll have in the real world. If you interact with people in any capacity, you need to learn at least basic social skills, and a lot of that is appealing to - or at least understanding - the emotional needs of people around you.

I know some people have a really hard time with this, especially some (some!) people on the autism spectrum, but I always have to shake my head when I see someone insist that logic is the most important thing ever, if you can't separate logic from emotion then you're bad at living! That's not how the real world works. That's not how any of this works.

Also totally agree that logic has basically nothing to do with telling lies or truths. Definitely two different questions being asked.

 

[Icystorm]

Is it better to tell the truth even if it's cold and it hurts? Or is it better to ensure you don't hurt people's feelings, so they will be more receptive to what you have to say?

I can't answer this without going into a gray area, so how about I just destroy the person? That way it won't matter what they think of me one way or another.

To answer the poll, though, I guess I have to go with emotion.

 

[K3l]

But what if the logical thing to do is to put your emotions first? At that point is it putting logic over emotion or putting emotion over logic?

 

[Dervish]

I'm going to be the odd man out and say logic.

If I'm on a sinking ship, I want to know about it instead of being assured that everything's fine because it might be upsetting to find out we're all about to get swallowed by the ocean and tea bagged by Davey Jones.

 

[Kagayours]

I'm going to be the odd man out and say logic.

If I'm on a sinking ship, I want to know about it instead of being assured that everything's fine because it might be upsetting to find out we're all about to get swallowed by the ocean and tea bagged by Davey Jones.

I wouldn't say you're the odd one out -- logic still has twice as many votes as emotion, after all.

 

[Brovo]

That said, my overall view on the matter is still very gray, and I think it depends a lot on the situation at hand.

All this question does is remove all other factors and asks what's more important to you, generally.

There is no particular situation. It's a gut reaction answer. I learned it from a psychology major friend of mine recently and thought it was neat, so I'll let you in on it, because you're pretty sharp, so I figure you might find this interesting too.

The logical people would answer with whatever answer they felt was most logical and move on--their thinking is more mathematical, so they choose the best within the options provided and don't go much further than that.
The emotional people would think more outside of the box and attempt to extrapolate a scenario in which both states exist, and typically come to the conclusion that neither choice is correct--it's too gray. Because it's too gray, neither choice can be emotionally satisfactory, because the resultant, unknown consequences, could be literally anything in their mind.

So in the end, in most cases (not all--there's always exceptions), logical people pick the logical answer, as their thinking is based on "must come to solution with whatever information is presently available." Emotional people pick no answer at all, because to pick either answer presents too many unknowns for them to feel satisfied with their choice. One implies more strictly problem-solving based thinking, the other implies more strictly out of the box, artistic thinking.

As for the truth vs being heard, that element is only there to further stratify the two positions. Since, in an extrapolation, telling a lie but being heard could be just as bad or worse than telling the truth and not being heard: Dependent on your moral values. Whereas the logical, problem solver thinker, simply chooses whichever value has greater meaning to them, and it's typically the truth: Because no rational position can come from spreading misinformation.

The human psyche is fun.

EDIT

Basically, @Deuce was the one person here to really nail that the options provided don't make any sense if you simply apply any sort of situation to them that could invalidate either position.

 

[Kagayours]

There is no particular situation. It's a gut reaction answer. I learned it from a psychology major friend of mine recently and thought it was neat, so I'll let you in on it, because you're pretty sharp, so I figure you might find this interesting too.

The logical people would answer with whatever answer they felt was most logical and move on--their thinking is more mathematical, so they choose the best within the options provided and don't go much further than that.
The emotional people would think more outside of the box and attempt to extrapolate a scenario in which both states exist, and typically come to the conclusion that neither choice is correct--it's too gray. Because it's too gray, neither choice can be emotionally satisfactory, because the resultant, unknown consequences, could be literally anything in their mind.

So in the end, in most cases (not all--there's always exceptions), logical people pick the logical answer, as their thinking is based on "must come to solution with whatever information is presently available." Emotional people pick no answer at all, because to pick either answer presents too many unknowns for them to feel satisfied with their choice. One implies more strictly problem-solving based thinking, the other implies more strictly out of the box, artistic thinking.

As for the truth vs being heard, that element is only there to further stratify the two positions. Since, in an extrapolation, telling a lie but being heard could be just as bad or worse than telling the truth and not being heard: Dependent on your moral values. Whereas the logical, problem solver thinker, simply chooses whichever value has greater meaning to them, and it's typically the truth: Because no rational position can come from spreading misinformation.

The human psyche is fun.

...Huh. You're right, that is very interesting.

And... since the poll was apparently designed to get the reaction out of me that it did, I guess that renders my complaint null. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Basically, @Deuce was the one person here to really nail that the options provided don't make any sense if you simply apply any sort of situation to them that could invalidate either position.

...Well. I mean. That's sort of exactly what I was trying to say. I repeatedly stated that I didn't like the way the poll or anything about this was worded because I felt it didn't make any sense. And... I was going to elaborate on that more, since my whole brain was just like "this question doesn't work??? i don't want to submit a binary answer when i don't feel like that works?????", but, I felt like my explanation on that whole thought process was poorly-worded, so I deleted that part and just kept it simple.

And, since you wanted to force a choice so badly, I decided to stop worrying about specific scenarios and go with more of an overall gut reaction. ...Because, you know, I decided I might as well play along.



........I hope you realize I'm now going to be a lot more cautious about answering any of your future polls, now that I know that these mind games are apparently a possibility.

*shakes head* The one time I decide to not trust my gut and vote in a poll that I wasn't sure about...

 

[Sidhe]

...Well. I mean. That's sort of exactly what I was trying to say. I repeatedly stated that I didn't like the way the poll or anything about this was worded because I felt it didn't make any sense. And... I was going to elaborate on that more, since my whole brain was just like "this question doesn't work??? i don't want to submit a binary answer when i don't feel like that works?????", but, I felt like my explanation on that whole thought process was poorly-worded, so I deleted that part and just kept it simple.

And, since you wanted to force a choice so badly, I decided to stop worrying about specific scenarios and go with more of an overall gut reaction. ...Because, you know, I decided I might as well play along.

........I hope you realize I'm now going to be a lot more cautious about answering any of your future polls, now that I know that these mind games are apparently a possibility.

*shakes head* The one time I decide to not trust my gut and vote in a poll that I wasn't sure about...

I did the exact same thing.

*shakes fist* damn you, @Brovo, I feel played!

 

[Brovo]

........I hope you realize I'm now going to be a lot more cautious about answering any of your future polls, now that I know that these mind games are apparently a possibility.

*shakes fist* damn you, @Brovo, I feel played!

If it means anything, I liked your answers. (Also, when I do these kinds of mind games, I always reveal my hand in the end. If I didn't, I'd be stepping into the territory of Machiavelli, and eehhh'... I don't reaaaallly need to go there I think.)

 

[Kagayours]

If it means anything, I liked your answers. (Also, when I do these kinds of mind games, I always reveal my hand in the end. If I didn't, I'd be stepping into the territory of Machiavelli, and eehhh'... I don't reaaaallly need to go there I think.)

I guess this also explains why I couldn't come up with an answer that I felt even remotely confident about until I could think of just one general scenario to go with, and ignore the rest -- since, up until that point, I mainly felt like I couldn't answer because I had no idea what you were even asking about, and I had no idea how to even approach the question until I had a clearer idea of what sort of thing it was asking. And then, between the "no one will listen if you hurt their feelings" thing and Opal's response, I guess I sort of mentally re-framed the question as, "which is a better way to get people to listen to you?", which was the only way I could pin down a definitive answer. (And even then, I felt like I was ruling out a ton of other scenarios, and that I might not have interpreted your question correctly.) Funny how all that works.

 

[Peter Feels]

It doesn't seem smart to answer one way or the other.

 

[Hatsune Candy]

I'm a bit mixed on this question, but in the end I went with emotion because that seems to be what I usually lean towards in most situations. I've met far too many people who overemphasize the importance of logic and come off as extremely cold and heartless as result. Outside of Tumblr, I don't come across nearly as many people on the opposite end of that spectrum. Perhaps my opinion is a bit biased in that sense.

That's not to say logic isn't important, it's extremely important. However, I also think it's important to have a balance between the two. I mean, I just hate the idea that we absolutely have to choose one or the other; we obviously need both. Without emotion we'd essentially become robots. Without logic we'd devolve into mindless apes. Either way you toss it, we'd lose a part of what makes us who we are as modern day humans.

 

[Sidhe]

If it means anything, I liked your answers. (Also, when I do these kinds of mind games, I always reveal my hand in the end. If I didn't, I'd be stepping into the territory of Machiavelli, and eehhh'... I don't reaaaallly need to go there I think.)