Donald Trump as President

[Gwazi Magnum]

Alright, so he's only been President for about 2 days now, but we've already got one rather big incident happening, removal of the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.

I suggest you guys read it for yourself, but from the sounds of it they don't plan to replace it with anything.


I should also address the reports of the White House site removing certain pages, but I'm going to suggest people wait before jumping to conclusions here. Because an argument elsewhere was offered that this is could be a matter of Trumps new council not being in agreement on those policies yet, and it could be misleading to just leave Obama's Board opinions on there in the meantime.

 

[IntrusivePenDesperateSword]

Alright, so he's only been President for about 2 days now, but we've already got one rather big incident happening, removal of the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.

I suggest you guys read it for yourself, but from the sounds of it they don't plan to replace it with anything.

Wasn't Obamacare the closest thing USA's had to universal healthcare in a while? Well, they did hire a republican.

Also, seeing his name at the bottom of the page, right above "THE WHITE HOUSE", is kind of unsettling. Probably just because of all the memes.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Wasn't Obamacare the closest thing USA's had to universal healthcare in a while? Well, they did hire a republican.

Also, seeing his name at the bottom of the page, right above "THE WHITE HOUSE", is kind of unsettling. Probably just because of all the memes.

Yup. Looks like they're going back to the system they had before Obama... It was nice while it lasted. :/

And yea, that made me feel weird too, like I got spiked or something.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Aside from protectionism, I'm optimistic about the next four years, potentially eight if all goes well.
Mike Pence will be as powerful, if not more so, than Dick Cheney, which is another plus for me.

 

[Melon]

As much as I want to be positive and remain optimistic, it's impossible for me to be. That is all I will say in response.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Responding to quotes from the other thread.

But then again, not every right-wing president is a fascist. So no, not related to that part.

I'm unsure of the specific definition of fascism, but boy is he racist, though.

Definition of fascism

1. 1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2. 2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

======================================

Donald Trump is racist (or at least uses racist rhetoric), no debate on that from me. But a fascist? That's an awful stretch.

He's exalt's the nation a lot, but a lot of his campaign has been about giving things back to the people... So, not exactly "above the individual". Granted, you *could* argue Hitler swooned people with similiar wording, but you also got to consider Hitler had groups like browncoats. Meanwhile Trump has... Twitter.

The race bit is probably the most accurate part given his giant deal about Mexicans and building a wall. But being racist in itself isn't fascism, that's called racism.

Donald Trump certainly isn't centralized, seeing as stuff like cutting ACA is done with the reasoning of giving more control to the states. Which even if most of Europe + Canada recognises that being insanely idiotic and cruel... Politically speaking it's the opposite of centralizing. Same applies to the economic regimentation.

And he certainly isn't a Dictator, he's a democratically elected President. Even if he lost the popular vote, because everyone knew and was okay with the Electoral College going in.

Social regimentation? He get's offended easily, for sure. But I've never seen him actively try to suppress or censor people's voices. That's more something the regressive left tends to do. Same applies to forcible oppression of opposition, the closest he get's to this is not talking to big news organisation's. Which one can argue to being a massive issue since he's the President, but there's also a difference between choosing not to talk to someone, and taking away their ability to speak. Trump's only done the former, not the latter.

In what way is Trump a racist? I'd like to see a racist quote of his.

Well there is his entire "All Mexicans are rapists" deal. We can debate if he genuinely meant that or was using it as rhetoric, but I think it's safe to at least state that he inspires racist behaviour. Maybe not more than certain regressive left groups tend to do so, but he isn't innocent either.

Aside from protectionism, I'm optimistic about the next four years, potentially eight if all goes well.
Mike Pence will be as powerful, if not more so, than Dick Cheney, which is another plus for me.

Asking as a genuine question, what is it specifically that you're optimistic about?

 

[Legens Legentis]

Well there is his entire "All Mexicans are rapists" deal. We can debate if he genuinely meant that or was using it as rhetoric, but I think it's safe to at least state that he inspires racist behaviour. Maybe not more than certain regressive left groups tend to do so, but he isn't innocent either.

Asking as a genuine question, what is it specifically that you're optimistic about?

He did not claim that all Mexicans were rapists, if you look at the context of the speech. He was referring to illegal immigrants, and even included the statement "and some, I assume, are good people." Furthermore, Mexican is not a race, but a nationality. There are European Mexicans, Mestizos, indigenous, etc.

As for the things I'm optimistic about: mostly extreme privatization, deregulation, tax cuts, repealing of the ACA, defunding of sanctuary cities, and a rebooting of diplomacy with Russia.

 

[Shiri]

I don't really have much to say since the document doesn't have much to say. Uh...they typed two pages stating nothing is changing yet. Yup, that's what they did. They did it.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

He did not claim that all Mexicans were rapists, if you look at the context of the speech. He was referring to illegal immigrants, and even included the statement "and some, I assume, are good people."

You'd think even there though, he'd be accurate enough to say "Illegal Immigrants are rapists", not Mexicans. Cause Illegal immigrants wouldn't be just a mexican issue, and by saying mexican he is also lumping in legal immigrants.

And the wording "I assume" does suggest it's possible to be wrong there, or that it probably isn't that many.

I'll grant, this is probably being a little PC of me, but words do have definitions for a reason. :/

Furthermore, Mexican is not a race, but a nationality. There are European Mexicans, Mestizos, indigenous, etc.

Yea, that's fair enough.
I rescend my earlier comment, Racist isn't the right term to be using.
I think discriminatory/bigoted towards the Mexican ideology would be more accurate though.

As for the things I'm optimistic about: mostly extreme privatization, deregulation, tax cuts, repealing of the ACA, defunding of sanctuary cities, and a rebooting of diplomacy with Russia.

Not sure I agree with most of these personally speaking, but I am a fan of diplomacy with Russia.
It'd be damn nice to have two super powers getting along.

 

[Nebulon Ranger]

mostly extreme privatization

Government is not for the people if corporations own most of it. Extreme privatisation is also a tool used to avoid financial accountability to the voting public. The Conservatives here tried to do it.

tax cuts

You might not see most of these, actually. Historically-speaking, tax cuts for the wealthy never actually present any benefits to the working class, as the money the wealthy save from them ends up becoming what's called dark money--that is, money that nobody knows the whereabouts of--and part of their hoard of funds. Right-leaning governments almost always favor tax cuts on the wealthy over tax cuts on the working-class, because guess who butters their bread? Not John Q. Public, that's for sure.

repealing of the ACA

Note that Donald Trump said repeal and replace. What is he going to replace it with? This is what I'm more curious about.

and a rebooting of diplomacy with Russia

This I can get on board with. Shitting all over each other on a global scale is something that should have died when the Cold War did.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

I don't really have much to say since the document doesn't have much to say. Uh...they typed two pages stating nothing is changing yet. Yup, that's what they did. They did it.

It is the policy of my Administration to seek the prompt repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148), as amended (the "Act").

Even with majority everything he still has to go through the steps and processes. Repelling ACA is Trump taking the first step to removing it.

Note that Donald Trump said repeal and replace. What is he going to replace it with? This is what I'm more curious about.

Going by the document:

prepare to afford the States more flexibility and control to create a more free and open healthcare market.

The replacement is being decided on a state by state basis.

 

[Nebulon Ranger]

Going by the document:

prepare to afford the States more flexibility and control to create a more free and open healthcare market.

The replacement is being decided on a state by state basis.

In an ideal world, this would end in something akin to the 10 provincial systems here in Canada, but America is too far to the right for that to actually work.

 

[Shiri]

It is the policy of my Administration to seek the prompt repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148), as amended (the "Act").

Even with majority everything he still has to go through the steps and processes. Repelling ACA is Trump taking the first step to removing it.

Oh I misread the bit after it:

"it is imperative for the executive branch to ensure that the law is being efficiently implemented"

I thought it said "Act" instead of "law" hence the confusion.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

In an ideal world, this would end in something akin to the 10 provincial systems here in Canada, but America is too far to the right for that to actually work.

Yea... There's a reason they had to wait for Obama to get something going in the first place. :/

Oh I misread the bit after it:

"it is imperative for the executive branch to ensure that the law is being efficiently implemented"

I thought it said "Act" instead of "law" hence the confusion.

Fair enough, it does jump from one thing to the next rather quickly. :P

 

[Legens Legentis]

Government is not for the people if corporations own most of it. Extreme privatisation is also a tool used to avoid financial accountability to the voting public. The Conservatives here tried to do it.


You might not see most of these, actually. Historically-speaking, tax cuts for the wealthy never actually present any benefits to the working class, as the money the wealthy save from them ends up becoming what's called dark money--that is, money that nobody knows the whereabouts of--and part of their hoard of funds. Right-leaning governments almost always favor tax cuts on the wealthy over tax cuts on the working-class, because guess who butters their bread? Not John Q. Public, that's for sure.

Goodness, I don't support tax cuts or privatization for the sake of the public. Taking an Objectivist approach on the subject, it's entirely motivated by self-interest. My family is well-off. These changes help me tremendously, however, in making sure that I stay well-off.

But yes, an Obamacare replacement is in the works.
Rand Paul previews Obamacare replacement plan - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Nebulon Ranger]

Goodness, I don't support tax cuts or privatization for the sake of the public. Taking an Objectivist approach on the subject, it's entirely motivated by self-interest. My family is well-off. These changes help me tremendously, however, in making sure that I stay well-off.

I'd give you the tired old lecture here, but clearly it'd just bounce right off and you'd continue to be condescending and sardonic for no good reason just because you have money.

These changes help you? Good for you. Enjoy having more money, blissfully unaware that you are a) in the minority, and b) the spitting image of someone so far to the right they've lost all common sense.


For the record, I'm not exactly poor either. Not loaded, not poor, but comfortable. I own a reasonable array of expensive computer and AV hardware. Despite this, I still see the value in not being a complete asshole to those less well off than I am.

 

[Fel of the Eternal Forest]

NO personal attacks, please.

 

[FieryCold]

This is just a friendly reminder to keep things civil, guys. No personal attacks, and stay on topic. We'll be keeping a close watch on this to make sure things don't get too out of hand.

 

[Legens Legentis]

I'd give you the tired old lecture here, but clearly it'd just bounce right off and you'd continue to be condescending and sardonic for no good reason just because you have money.

These changes help you? Good for you. Enjoy having more money, blissfully unaware that you are a) in the minority, and b) the spitting image of someone so far to the right they've lost all common sense.


For the record, I'm not exactly poor either. Not loaded, not poor, but comfortable. I own a reasonable array of expensive computer and AV hardware. Despite this, I still see the value in not being a complete asshole to those less well off than I am.

I don't see this as a squabble over compassion, but let's assume that Trump's economic plan actually brings back jobs from Mexico, China, or what have you. If that is the case, getting people back into the work force will have done infinitely more for those in poverty (and the nation) than welfare or food stamps ever could. All without taking a higher percentage of my income or a fraction of my property's value. Likewise, these working people would no longer be the 47% of Americans not paying income tax. Crime rates would collapse as well, if one associates crime with destitution.

My point is: there are more ways to help the unfortunate than with government dependence.

 

[Sir Salty]

I just want to bitch slap some common sense, logic, and rational thought into some people. And that's all I am going to say. As well as I didn't vote for Trump.

And that I will be an ostrich in the sand. Except I guess more like a Captain Sparrow in a rum bottle. To be able to drink myself into a stupor for 4 years. Hopefully, I'll be drunk enough to forget these four years have happened.