The Value of Art

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Brovo

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@Clyde Pulling you in specifically because it seems like you would rather like to be included in a topic you are passionate about.

What do all of you think the value of art is? Let me throw a few questions out there about it for y'all to answer.
  • Is it entirely subjective, entirely objective, or somewhere in the middle?
  • Does art deserve any government funding? If so, in what ways is it most appropriate?
  • What is defined as art to you?
  • Does art deserve to be exempt from censorship laws concerning hate speech or other sensitive subject matter?
I'll be happy to answer these myself later. I want to see what Iwaku thinks first without potentially poisoning the well preemptively with my own opinions. :ferret:
 
While I'll be willing to clarify a bit more after work. I'll go ahead and put my presence in. To me while art is subjective I think art is always a way to open up discussion about topics we rather not talk about. It breaks the barrier between the unfamiliar and uncomfortable. For example we can easily take the book by Orwell 1984 as the message and warning of policing thoughts and an idea. It romamticozes a future where we cannot speak our minds. Something we can look to today as a reference. Art has value in the way that it can bring up topics we otherwise would not or could not talk about. Not Art is an emotion. Some art is an objective what if to a subjective interpretation of said what if. I think the Art that has the most value is art that addresses social problems and ideas.
 
@Sen WHAT THE HELL WHY IS OUR ESSAY TOPIC FOR ART ON IWAKU????

Might as well get some practice done -flex hands-

Is it entirely subjective, entirely objective, or somewhere in the middle?
Mostly subjective. With the introduction of contemporary and modern art, it has allowed artworks to have very open ended interpretations, unlike back in the renaissance and earlier eras. The reason why I say it is 'mostly subjective' is because back in good olden days and shit, drawings and paintings were limited to the monarchy, biblical stuff and other very significant events. The details of those paintings were very fine-tuned and realistic, too, so many that viewed those kinds of artworks would have a very objective opinion on it because their interpretations are very closed and standard. Now thanks to modern art values, there are now tons of different types of techniques, materials and styles that we can use to create art, and as a result, art began to have subjective opinions being raised, as the artist's intention is often very vague. Of course, fan art and commission art (any art got to do with design tbh) are often viewed objectively because they are often there to look aesthetically pleasing and not really provoke any kind of thought. And thus, this is why I say art is 'mostly subjective'.
Does art deserve any government funding? If so, in what ways is it most appropriate?

I personally think art should have government funding. It is way for people to communicate and showcase their heritage, culture, opinions, etc. It also allows the preservation of history too if you think about it. How else would we have known about the stone ages and shit without the cave drawings (well, besides digging for bones and the likes).

What is defined as art to you?

For me there are two definitions of art. One of which is displaying aesthetically pleasing drawings, paintings etc. In other words, where most of the fan art and the likes fall under. It may not necessarily provoke deep thought. but it is still considered art because it demonstrates very superior artistic skills and techniques. However, the other definition of art is "a picture/sculpture/the likes that focuses on the idea/concept of the artwork to provokes thought and reaction". For example, remember the bullshit with this painting?
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30-40-lot-17.jpg

(for those that don't know, this painting above was sold for nearly $44 million)
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Naturally, since it doesn't appear to have many amazing technical skill and so simple that even a child can do it, many people were outraged at the fact that artwork was sold for so much money because it didn't seem to ave much skills involved. Many people also expressed their shock by saying that "lol does that mean I can paint a canvas in blue and red and sell for millions too?" and began to wonder and debate if modern art has begun to turn to shit.

And already, we are provoked into a debate because of this artwork. Has art become too technically simple? Does art really have any meaning or none at all? Can everyone create art that can end up in a gallery nowadays? Do we value the process of making the artwork more than the concept/idea of the artwork? And so on...

So in actual fact, at least for that particular painting, there is still meaning behind it because we question our art values, and questioning leads to different interpretations of the artwork :D

Does art deserve to be exempt from censorship laws concerning hate speech or other sensitive subject matter?

While I don't believe art should be censored since it should be a way for us to freely express ourselves, censorship would actually make the artwork much more interesting. For example, Ai Weiwei, a Chinese contemporary artist, is constantly subjected to censorship by the Chinese government because his artworks are considered to be very 'provocative' and 'obscene.' Because of the censorship, people and art critics alike begin to question whether the censorship of Ai Weiwei's artwork is necessary or too harsh. And already we are thrown into a debate about censorship along with the discussion of the meanings and messages of his artwork. Hence, censorship can also add another layer of interpretation to an artwork too.
 
  • Is it entirely subjective, entirely objective, or somewhere in the middle?
  • Does art deserve any government funding? If so, in what ways is it most appropriate?
  • What is defined as art to you?
  • Does art deserve to be exempt from censorship laws concerning hate speech or other sensitive subject matter?
I'll clarify exactly what I mean later with my answers if people don't understand. I always have a hard time putting down my opinion through text form.

I think there has to be a middle ground between subjectivity and objectivity. Thinking entirely one way over the other, does not allow for things that we universally see as bad or personal taste. We need to identify the objective "badness" of art so that we can judge art that does not have those particular set "bad qualities" to confirm it as bad. At the same time, Art is very subjective between each individual. We need a balance between the two.

While I think it does, I could NOT Think of a perfect win/win scenario. I think more support for the less fortunate to learn how to draw, to learn an instrument, etc through special programs that are also open to those who just want get more creative and artsy. I know it's not as fundamentally important as academic stuff such as science, math, etc, but Art is part of culture that helps give people their individual identity.

Art to me is a product(Game, movie, music, etc) that resonates within you on many levels, not all levels though. Whether its resonating through sorrow, for enjoyment, happiness or more complex feelings and emotions. It's a personal thing that maybe only a few people will understand like you, but many will not, and that's fine.

I honestly think that censorship should be left with the artist in question, Self Censorship is quite possibly the only form of censorship I can support and understand, I did my thesis for my final year at college about Censorship in music, to which I started my research into Censorship as a whole(Draconian Era of the 80's in the UK, the Tipper Gore and Wives for Censorship of the 80's in the US.). While it's far from perfect, I do think the Artist should "censor" themselves if they feel their work is not quite on their level, granted you will get guys go "it's perfect, no bad anything" History has told us that when it comes to censorship? powerful groups and movements only go for that option to make a point. The Government in the UK made a point about Video Nasties in the 80's and where did that lead them? making a complete 180 on it in the late 90's because of Porn.
 
Is it entirely subjective, entirely objective, or somewhere in the middle?
Entirely subjective. Critics and reviews exist for a reason after all. What may be critically acclaimed and a masterpiece to some people (James Cameron's films for example) may be considered trash to others and vice versa. One man's trash is another man's treasure basically.

Does art deserve any government funding? If so, in what ways is it most appropriate?
For the most part I say no. The only time I consider it appropriate is for museums and the like.

What is defined as art to you?
I'm with @Darog on this one.

Does art deserve to be exempt from censorship laws concerning hate speech or other sensitive subject matter?
HELL NO. If someone's offended by something, they can simply avoid it and pretend it doesn't exist. Just because you don't like it or feel uncomfortable doesn't mean people should censor themselves. Your feelings honestly don't mean anything and shouldn't when it comes to how people make their content. There's a line between criticism and being a whiny asshole.
 
Art is expression on display. The nature of expression is that in essence it's a feeling or opinion. As such, the degree to which it is valued is determined by the observer and their bias.

Whether I think art should receive funding... is entirely dependent on how much I value the individual piece. Like, if you put together an intriguing short movie covering subject matter and/or use a lot of non-traditional film techniques that Hollywood wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole... Yes.

If you go pick up a bunch of sticks and arrange them in a circle... I want you to get a job. I'm not making this up I've seen this on display.

The thing is that when you set standards art has to abide by to receive funding... Well it stops being funding art.

Art should be able to discuss touchy subjects. As should comedy. As should calm and rational conversation. I don't really feel art deserves any exclusive right to this.
 
May as well do what I said I'd do.
Is it entirely subjective, entirely objective, or somewhere in the middle?
Somewhere in the middle. The personal feelings evoked by particular pieces of art differ from person to person--typically based on beliefs, values, and tastes. Sometimes, by personal experiences. (I'm sure an army veteran who has seen combat, watching the same war movie as me, has his experiences shape his interpretations far more than I do.)

That being said, there are objective quality markers in most forms of artistic expression. Ways by which you can determine an overall structure and skill with which an artist created a work. Human beings, by nature, are creatures of pattern recognition--thus we like to see symmetry, or symmetrical asymmetry, or so on. The structure and flow of a plot, how scenes interconnect in film and plays, the structure of music--it's all done to appeal to logic. At the end of the day, a piece of music is just a complex pattern of timed beats and mathematic signatures which create a sound which evokes a feeling in the human mind.

Some think this somehow robs it of the magic of not knowing. I don't understand these people--there is nothing lost in knowing how a machine works: All it does is let you appreciate it more knowing just how incredible it really is. Knowledge only adds, it doesn't take away.
Does art deserve any government funding? If so, in what ways is it most appropriate?
Art is defined by the individual, and cultural masterpieces are defined either by consistent mass market appeal over a generation (Star Wars) or by the sheer clout of a small group of powerful, highly influential elites (Mona Lisa). The Canadian Government dumps millions of dollars into film and other art projects, and it has never once produced any sort of Canadian cultural artifact that the majority of people could even recognize--leave alone feel impacted by.

The People, or The Elites, decide what is art--not the government. Leave it to them--and their wallets--to decide what is worth perpetuating forever, and what is worth abandoning. The market is more than big enough to preserve pretty much everything now anyway--even stuff that is absolutely terrible. :ferret:

The only thing the Government should be responsible for concerning the preservation of art is the preservation of cultural hallmarks--museums, and the like. And, only to the extent of teaching Canadian history. Otherwise, it's nothing more than an altar to pure hubris.
What is defined as art to you?
Whatever is emotive or informative, typically--though not always--in a fictionalized sense, or through the lens of a culture.

Which is... A lot of things. Even things I find distasteful, disgusting, or completely stupid. After all, art isn't necessarily defined by skill, and considering what a person feels about art is subjective, it would be a dangerous precedent to ever make it about skill.
Does art deserve to be exempt from censorship laws concerning hate speech or other sensitive subject matter?
Yes. Yes it does. Art and comedy are the greatest forms by which to challenge the cultural norms. So long as they stand able to question whatever they want--no matter how controversial or disturbing--western civilization will go on.
 
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