Political Discussion Thread

[Dervish]

In the interest of keeping the who would you vote for thread on track, here's a place for you to respond to comments or ideas here, or generally just keep that stuff contained in this one spot.

It's getting close to election time, so people probably want an outlet.

Just keep things civil and respectful towards one another, alrighty? We're all friends here, and friends don't always agree.

Unless they're the Borg.

Have fun, try not to burn the forum down.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Spoiler

Twas the night before Congress, when all through the House
Not a dollar was stirring, not even to fund a mouse.
The taxes were cut by the Romney with care,
In hopes that the presidency soon would be there.

The Senators were nestled all snug in their desks,
While visions of money and welfare danced in their heads....
And Obama in his 'kerchief, and I in my cap,
Had just settled our brains for a long two-term nap.

When out on the White House lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of mid-day to citizens below.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature campaign, and eight media sneers.

With a little old pen, so lively and drawl,
I knew in a moment it must be Senator Paul.
More rapid than eagles his voters they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name!

"Now Carson! now, Cruz! now, Gilmore and Graham!
On, Trump! On, Bush! on, on Kasich and Christie!
To the top of the Washington Monument! to the top of the wall!
Now cut taxes! Cut taxes! Cut taxes for all!"

As dry leaves that before the wild campaign fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, poll to the sky.
So up to the House-top the candidates they flew,
With the sleigh full of Toys, and Senator Paul too.

Spoiler

And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and deregulating of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Down the Capitol Hill Senator Paul came with a bound.

He was dressed all in freedom, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with Obamacare and soot....
A Bill of Rights he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a patriot, just opening his pack.

His eyes-how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like Rick Perry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the tint of his chin was as white as the snow.

The shreds of a bill he held tight in his teeth,
And the liberty it encircled his head like a wreath.
He had a broad face and a little proud republic,
That shook when he laughed, a nation made idyllic!

He was thorough and un-Trump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself!
A wink of his eye and a libertarian of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the country with jobs, then turned with a jerk.
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, up the Capitol Hill he rose!

He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a legislature.
But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he drove out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a Republican-night!"

It might be unrelated to basically anything but I wrote it last Christmas and feel greatly nostalgic for it.

 

[Greenie]

try not to burn the forum down.

said the guy with the creepy Cell signature. ;P

"Politics: "Poli" a Latin word meaning "many" and "tics" meaning "bloodsucking creatures"." ~ Robin Williams

 

[Brovo]

This'll go great the moment a Trump supporter gets here.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I'll leave this here, because this sums up how I feel...at least partly.

 

[Greenie]

Hm. Since this thread boasts a pretty broad topic range, I figure I may as well ask any questions I have here. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to politics. I've actually never voted in my life, the reason being that most of my adult life I wasn't even in Canada. So I didn't actually have to worry about that sort of thing. Whatever I learned was as a teen, and even then it was sparse because I would have rather focused on fantasy.

Anyway! My excuses aside...

My first question is, what's the difference between Canadian and American governments? I know it's more than a lengthy post (or book) but I was wondering the bare-bones.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Hm. Since this thread boasts a pretty broad topic range, I figure I may as well ask any questions I have here. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to politics. I've actually never voted in my life, the reason being that most of my adult life I wasn't even in Canada. So I didn't actually have to worry about that sort of thing. Whatever I learned was as a teen, and even then it was sparse because I would have rather focused on fantasy.

Anyway! My excuses aside...

My first question is, what's the difference between Canadian and American governments? I know it's more than a lengthy post (or book) but I was wondering the bare-bones.

In brief, Canada is a parliamentary democracy and the U.S. is a federal republic. The former involves the legislature appointing a prime minister and the latter utilizes an Electoral College to select the executive/president.

 

[Brovo]

My first question is, what's the difference between Canadian and American governments? I know it's more than a lengthy post (or book) but I was wondering the bare-bones.

Our judicial systems also operate on different systems of law. Canada & other Commonwealth nations use Common Law, the United States does not. This means that some laws operate quite differently--Commonwealth Nations don't have Fair Use for instance. We have Fair Dealing--similar, but not as broad as in the US.

 

[Darog]

This'll go great the moment a Trump supporter gets here.

You leave Benny Hill out of this >:[.

 

[Dervish]

Hm. Since this thread boasts a pretty broad topic range, I figure I may as well ask any questions I have here. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to politics. I've actually never voted in my life, the reason being that most of my adult life I wasn't even in Canada. So I didn't actually have to worry about that sort of thing. Whatever I learned was as a teen, and even then it was sparse because I would have rather focused on fantasy.

Anyway! My excuses aside...

My first question is, what's the difference between Canadian and American governments? I know it's more than a lengthy post (or book) but I was wondering the bare-bones.

Another important distinction is Canada's head of state is the ruling monarch of Britian and the US is the president.

Come election time, our Prime Minister has to ask the Governor General (the personal representitive of the Queen) if they can begin the election, and the GG carries that up and badda bing, badda boom, the largely ceremonial permission is granted and we hunker down for 2-3 months of election throwdown.

The winning party needs a certain number of seats to get a majority government, which functions with absolute authority and power. If they win but don't pass the required sest threshold, they form a minority government where the runner up party forms the opposition. This works in a loosely similar way to when in the US that the party not in charge is voted into congress where bills and other executive decisions can be vetoed. The main difference is if the opposition blocks enough bills (I think it's 5), another election is forced.

One time, we had 4 elections in 3 years, I think it was.

 

[Greenie]

Thanks guys! That did enlighten me quite a bit.

One thing I do know (and quite enjoy) is that Canadian Prime Ministers don't have a maximum amount of years they can be in office. If I'm not mistaken, Mackenzie King was Prime Minister for a good 22 years, right.

 

[Brovo]

Thanks guys! That did enlighten me quite a bit.

One thing I do know (and quite enjoy) is that Canadian Prime Ministers don't have a maximum amount of years they can be in office. If I'm not mistaken, Mackenzie King was Prime Minister for a good 22 years, right.

Correct, we don't have term limits up here. It has its pros and cons.

Some other particular differences include...

• Canada Has Hate Speech Laws: Specifically in Sections 318, 319, and 320 of the Criminal Code of Canada, defined as Hate Propaganda. Hate Propaganda is defined as: "Any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence." Basically, we have anti-Hitler laws.
• Canada does not possess absolute freedom of speech: We have Freedom of Speech protected as a fundamental freedom by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, however it can be specifically abridged by other laws. Examples include defamation and libel, hate speech, the CRTC, the IBC, and the censorship of certain forms of pornography. Censorship can also be expanded upon specific groups during times of crisis, such as censorship of pro-FLQ journalists and media outlets during the 1970's.
• Canada has Case Law: We define new laws and change old laws via court cases. Judges define the majority of our laws--not the legislature. This is part of the Common Law system, it essentially means that our system of laws is perpetually evolving to meet the needs of the society around it. If a judge or tribunal decides to change a law via a court case, they have to defend that decision. If it's taken to a higher court and found that the new law is unjustifiable or if it interferes with our fundamental rights, it's usually trashed and the judge/tribunal in question is slapped for it.
• Our Judges are not elected: The US elects its lowest level judges. We don't. They're jobs, where professionals are hired into them.
• Neither is our Senate: This is something we borrowed from Daddy Britain and then changed up a bit. Daddy Britain's parliament has the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The purpose of the House of Lords was originally that the nobility could have a say in government, to ensure that whatever demented hair-brained majority schemes of a totalitarian party could not be passed without their approval or without an overwhelming majority approval in the House of Commons. Essentially, if the House of Commons has a slim majority, and tries to pass a new bill, the House of Lords can say no, and thus force the new bill to be revised and sent through again with one new caveat: That same bill must now pass the House of Commons with a 2/3rds majority. If it does, the House of Lords can no longer stop it. Our Senate works much like this.
• Senate Positions are assigned: Our Prime Minister assigns Senators to their positions. This has resulted in some political deadlocking over the years. Senators are also in their positions for life or until they retire. This is perhaps the most broken part of Canada's Democracy right now, and it's been a source of controversy in recent years. (Mike Duffy, anyone?)
• Canada is far more centralized: In the United States, a sincere and honest issue that often (and repeatedly) comes up, is States Rights. That's because, in the original concept of the US, each State was a largely independent entity, with the Federal government only providing the most basic overarching essentials--like the military. A major reason why they had a brutal civil war was because of States Rights. This is because the US is highly decentralized in power structure. Canada is highly centralized, meaning the majority of our governmental power rests with the Federal Government, and the Provinces are beholden to them.
• Canada vs the USA on culture: Canada is multicultural whereas the US is called a "boiling pot." American culture can essentially be summarized as an inflow of various European cultures all melted together and combined to form a singular American culture--the cultures which present the best ideas thrive and merge. Canada is multicultural, which means that we typically enshrine each individual culture as part of our overall identity--there is no singular Canadian culture like there is an American culture. To put it as a food analogy: Canada is 10 different pots of food set on a table. Anyone can take whatever they wish from each pot, but each pot is distinct from one another. America is 10 different types of food all combined into a single pot, put on a table. Anyone can put whatever they want in the pot, and the best combinations prove the most popular--thus thriving and growing.
• Canada vs the USA on firearms: Canada does not possess a guaranteed right to arms like the US does. Canada also has far more restrictive gun control laws.

 

[Greenie]

Thanks @Brovo ! I was mentioning the melting pot vs mosaic differences in Canada vs America to a friend the other day. I like the comparison of food better than a mosaic, lol. I think it was Pierre Elliot Trudeau who compared Canada to a tossed salad?

Oh yeah, sorry if I've made this into something of a Canadian thread. Totally not my intention! Just want to educate myself.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Hate speech laws are particularly absurd.

Furthermore

 

[Dervish]

Correct, we don't have term limits up here. It has its pros and cons.

Some other particular differences include...

• Canada Has Hate Speech Laws: Specifically in Sections 318, 319, and 320 of the Criminal Code of Canada, defined as Hate Propaganda. Hate Propaganda is defined as: "Any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence." Basically, we have anti-Hitler laws.
• Canada does not possess absolute freedom of speech: We have Freedom of Speech protected as a fundamental freedom by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, however it can be specifically abridged by other laws. Examples include defamation and libel, hate speech, the CRTC, the IBC, and the censorship of certain forms of pornography. Censorship can also be expanded upon specific groups during times of crisis, such as censorship of pro-FLQ journalists and media outlets during the 1970's.
• Canada has Case Law: We define new laws and change old laws via court cases. Judges define the majority of our laws--not the legislature. This is part of the Common Law system, it essentially means that our system of laws is perpetually evolving to meet the needs of the society around it. If a judge or tribunal decides to change a law via a court case, they have to defend that decision. If it's taken to a higher court and found that the new law is unjustifiable or if it interferes with our fundamental rights, it's usually trashed and the judge/tribunal in question is slapped for it.
• Our Judges are not elected: The US elects its lowest level judges. We don't. They're jobs, where professionals are hired into them.
• Neither is our Senate: This is something we borrowed from Daddy Britain and then changed up a bit. Daddy Britain's parliament has the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The purpose of the House of Lords was originally that the nobility could have a say in government, to ensure that whatever demented hair-brained majority schemes of a totalitarian party could not be passed without their approval or without an overwhelming majority approval in the House of Commons. Essentially, if the House of Commons has a slim majority, and tries to pass a new bill, the House of Lords can say no, and thus force the new bill to be revised and sent through again with one new caveat: That same bill must now pass the House of Commons with a 2/3rds majority. If it does, the House of Lords can no longer stop it. Our Senate works much like this.
• Senate Positions are assigned: Our Prime Minister assigns Senators to their positions. This has resulted in some political deadlocking over the years. Senators are also in their positions for life or until they retire. This is perhaps the most broken part of Canada's Democracy right now, and it's been a source of controversy in recent years. (Mike Duffy, anyone?)
• Canada is far more centralized: In the United States, a sincere and honest issue that often (and repeatedly) comes up, is States Rights. That's because, in the original concept of the US, each State was a largely independent entity, with the Federal government only providing the most basic overarching essentials--like the military. A major reason why they had a brutal civil war was because of States Rights. This is because the US is highly decentralized in power structure. Canada is highly centralized, meaning the majority of our governmental power rests with the Federal Government, and the Provinces are beholden to them.
• Canada vs the USA on culture: Canada is multicultural whereas the US is called a "boiling pot." American culture can essentially be summarized as an inflow of various European cultures all melted together and combined to form a singular American culture--the cultures which present the best ideas thrive and merge. Canada is multicultural, which means that we typically enshrine each individual culture as part of our overall identity--there is no singular Canadian culture like there is an American culture. To put it as a food analogy: Canada is 10 different pots of food set on a table. Anyone can take whatever they wish from each pot, but each pot is distinct from one another. America is 10 different types of food all combined into a single pot, put on a table. Anyone can put whatever they want in the pot, and the best combinations prove the most popular--thus thriving and growing.
• Canada vs the USA on firearms: Canada does not possess a guaranteed right to arms like the US does. Canada also has far more restrictive gun control laws.

Just want to add a caveat to the gun control bit; gun laws are controlled on the State level, whereas we are entirely federallt controlled. While this means some States like Texas and the Virginias, the Carolinas, and Georgia are super lax about gun laws and let you basically own whatever you want short of automatic weapons made after 1968, Canada actually has far less restrictive gun laws than states like California, New York, and New Jersey.

 

[Brovo]

Hate speech laws are particularly absurd.

Just want to add a caveat to the gun control bit; gun laws are controlled on the State level, whereas we are entirely federallt controlled. While this means some States like Texas and the Virginias, the Carolinas, and Georgia are super lax about gun laws and let you basically own whatever you want short of automatic weapons made after 1968, Canada actually has far less restrictive gun laws than states like California, New York, and New Jersey.

Aye. Centralized vs Decentralized.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

If hate speech was prohibited, Trump wouldn't have a campaign. His 'Gettysburg' speech about what he promised to do in his first 100 days basically summed up his dictatorship with promises to limit the first amendment and sue private citizens when he's president. He also thinks he can create term limits for Congress, which is going to be next to impossible without the Congress passing it.

It's funny how everyone is hating on the Dems and this country is supposedly going 'downhill' when the Republicans have had the house for the past six years......and have already promised not to do their jobs if Clinton wins.

If you look at some of the bills that they blocked, you can see why things are screwed up. But they did give themselves a raise though.....

 

[Legens Legentis]

If hate speech was prohibited, Trump wouldn't have a campaign. His 'Gettysburg' speech about what he promised to do in his first 100 days basically summed up his dictatorship with promises to limit the first amendment and sue private citizens when he's president. He also thinks he can create term limits for Congress, which is going to be next to impossible without the Congress passing it.

It's funny how everyone is hating on the Dems and this country is supposedly going 'downhill' when the Republicans have had the house for the past six years......and have already promised not to do their jobs if Clinton wins.

If you look at some of the bills that they blocked, you can see why things are screwed up. But they did give themselves a raise though.....

Blocking the executive's actions when they disagree is the legislature's job.
They've been doing it rather well.

 

[Hellis]

Blocking the executive's actions when they disagree is the legislature's job.
They've been doing it rather well.

Blocking Supreme Court Judge hearings and appointment is however not in their job description what so fucking ever. It is being argued to be downright WRONG and contrarian the very foundation of the democracy you stand on. Part of the the presidents JOB, the president who is chosen by your people, is to appoint these Judges. To block it is to undermine a democratically chosen representative ability to carry out his job. That is strictly speaking: undemocratic. It is also unprecedented as nobody have been so pigheadedly partisan before.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Blocking Supreme Court Judge hearings and appointment is however not in their job description what so fucking ever. It is being argued to be downright WRONG and contrarian the very foundation of the democracy you stand on. Part of the the presidents JOB, the president who is chosen by your people, is to appoint these Judges. To block it is to undermine a democratically chosen representative ability to carry out his job. That is strictly speaking: undemocratic. It is also unprecedented as nobody have been so pigheadedly partisan before.

The president is chosen more by the Electoral College than by the people. The people's demands change often, which is why we're dealing with a Congress that opposes him, because many senators and representatives were democratically elected to oppose him. The presidency is not a 4-8 year dictatorship.