MAFIA (Out of Game)

[Lusterine]

Hey, so I decided to go ahead and make a thread for future games and what not. wooooo.

I'd like to propose including a killing townie role- vigilante. It would work in a similar manner as in ToS- 3 bullets. killing a townie results in dying yourself the next night. Godfather and Executioner would come up as immune.
I think this gives town a bit more teeth, but with a heavy risk. Jailor has been used in the past, but it's tricky to get use out of the role with differences in time zones and the GM constantly having to run interference. This role would cause a level of chaos and unpredictability.

You know what else would cause chaos? Consigiliere. As an advisor to the Godfather, the Consig is able to determine roles of (1) target per night. Clearly, they would be able to counterclaim Detective. Consort is useful, but not useful if caught by the tracker or LO. They have no way to defend themselves, but the Consig can. Additionally, they wouldn't really be able to give their information until the next night- so it does have a weakness.

One or both roles would add some wildness to the next game, but let me know what you all think! I'm tagging all the ones involved with the previous mafia game :P

@Joan
@Starlighter
@LuckycoolHawk9
@Canadian Cat
@Kimberlyn
@Kiilgore
@CrystalTears
@Cabob7
@SilverVA
@Elle Joyner
@neobendium
@Dipper
@RJS
@The_J

 

[Canadian Cat]

I like the idea of mixing things up.

 

[noodle]

I love the idea of vigilante.

 

[Dipper]

Ooho, yes please.

 

[Elle Joyner]

Now that I actually play ToS, and understand a bit more, I'm inclined to agree. We need more of a power balance... And a Town Killing role gives us that.

 

[Cabob7]

I'm down for whatever.

 

[The_J]

Love the idea of a vigi. Not sure if a consig is necessary to balance it out, the maf seem pretty strong already.

 

[Lusterine]

Last year we did a wonderful spoopy halloween mafia special, should we dare bring that back?

I'd like to throw my hat in for GMing. Would anyone else like to as well?

 

[LuckycoolHawk9]

You know a tos role I would love to see in Iwaku mafia. The Arsonist. It would be fun to have a second big bad in the town whose goal is just to eliminate everyone except the survivor.

 

[Elle Joyner]

I think Arso only works if we have more players tho. And it might be difficult to keep track of who is doused and what not. As far as detective/invest goes. Serial Killer or WW works a little more effectively cause they're less conspicuous/damaging.

 

[Canadian Cat]

So is dare a plan here guyz?

Also I accidently dragged the

down from Elle's post and it looks like if you're clever we can use ratings as emoji now.

 

[Elle Joyner]

So apparently mobile has no draft... Just lost 20 minutes of writing to accidental refresh.

I'm good if Luster wants to GM. Also fine with a Halloween edition if that's what we wanna do.

Now, I know we briefly discussed this before... But after the last round I kinda wanna revisit... What do we think about the idea of canning vanilla townie and adding in more roles? Now that I am hopelessly addicted to play ToS more and better understand the system, I can see a major benefit in less vanilla roles.

For those who don't play, there's...

Jailor - while it was discussed that this wouldn't work so well in a forum because it needs a quick, decisive back and forth, we could just make it so this is the role that jails/chooses whether or not to execute. You limit executions (maybe 2 or 3 per game) and Jailor loses the ability to execute if they kill a townie.

Town Invest - investigator reads what someone's role could be (escort/consort, invest/consigleir, jester/framer, exe/sheriff, serial killer/doctor, etc.), Sheriff reads whether they're town or maf or neutral (Godfather shows up as non-suspicion). Spy reads who the Mafia visited (in case of framers or consorts), and Lookout (sees if their target was visited).

Town Protect - We've got doctor, but we could also add in bodyguard (who works essentially the same as doctor, except that they kill whoever attacks their protectee) - bodyguard would be ideal for roles like a revealed Mayor (since doctors can't heal a revealed mayor).

Town Support - there's Medium, Mayor, Escort. Could also add in Retributionist...? Their job is to ressurect one dead townie. They can only use their power once, and can't use it if they die.

Town Killing - Vigilante can pick a target at night to kill. They don't know if their target is town or scum, however, so they could majorly mess up. If they kill a townie, they die the next night from guilt. Veteran is similar - they can choose to alert and attack anyone who visits them that night. Chaotic roles that allow for some intense decision making lol.

We could switch up our neutral evil between jester/executioner - keep it random so it's not so predictable.

And lastly, neutral killing - WW and Arso might be too difficult to maneuver, but Serial Killer could be fun... Would also make the game a little faster/edgier, since there could potentially be TWO dead a night. Serial Killer can also Dexter it and take out Maf.

As for Mafia, we have Godfather, Mafioso and Consort... But there's also Framer - who basically makes it so their target's investigation results make them appear suspicious, and Consigleir, who is the mafia version of Invest. Cycling the random mafia role will make it less obvious when there's a consort. There's also Janitor (who cleans the mafia victim so their role isn't revealed and they can't be revived).

Last thing...

What do we feel about potentially adding in Last Wills, too. Where essentially people keep track of notes during the night round (who they visit, invest results, and suspicions they have) and then when they die, the GM will post those notes for everyone to read as the Last Will of the victim. (Twitter style, with a character limit/word count lol)

This is a good way to get last minute info out there and better organized so things don't get missed or lost in all the chatter.

Again... This is all just a suggestion. I just feel like we need more for people to do than discuss/lynch. Vanilla townie isn't necessarily bad... But it's not great, either and I don't personally think we need it, if we have other options available.

(I should add... If there's more players than roles, some of these roles can be doubled up on as a random townie role (could be TI, TS, TP or TK). Roles like Mayor, Vet, Retributionist, Jailor are rare roles and only one per game)

And side suggestion - we could add in random locations lol for no other reason than it makes it more fun for the GM... Like... Trains/Boat, castle/mansion...

 

[Canadian Cat]

Having more roles could definatly be fun but imma little worried that it might make the town a little too powerful. I mean the mafia played well last game, but the town got hit with a fare bit of bad luck which made things look a lot more one sided then it should have been.

I am definatly willing to try it out though. We won't really know how well it works here unless we try.

 

[Elle Joyner]

That's why I'm thinking things like neutral killing, town killing and even neutral evil could be a factor that'll keep it from being too OP.

 

[Lusterine]

Add a TK or 2, like Vig or Vet is something I completely agree. I see no point in adding a Vig and a Jailor if they can do the same thing, ya know? V

I think randomizing (or not setting) which mafia support roles there are would be an interesting addition- framer, consig, janitor or escort would be a good addition along with a Serial Killer or WW. WW I find more practical (btwn ww and arso)- but only if we keep on or two vanilla townie for them to CC with.

I would hesitate in adding more Town Power roles unless we added another maf. BG could also be a useful addition, I just don't want it to be that the majority of attempted kills are stopped

 

[Elle Joyner]

My thoughts were geared mainly towards finding a way to make it more enjoyable for everyone... So even if we added another maf, it still feels like a better ideal to me.

In ToS you generally have 15 people per game and anywhere from 5 to 6 of those are either mafia or neutral, the remaining 9 or 10 being town. This prevents it from being too easy for town, without being impossible. So long as we keep to or around that 1/3 balance I think we could add more roles without losing the challenge. But I do think we need to allow for town to have at least two investigative roles... Investigator and Sheriff for instance.

I see what you're saying regarding Vig/Jailor - the major difference being the investigative nature of Jailor, which gets lost in translation to forum style. So maybe we add Vig as a core role, and cycle Vet in with other random/rare roles (like Retributionist or Mayor).

To make this more clear I'm looking at it this way...

In a 7-10 player game : 2-3 maf (GF, Mafioso and/or one Special Maf role)

The remaining players are town with the core roles being

1 or 2 TI
1 TK
1 or 2 TP
1 TS
1 NK/NE

In an 11-18 player game

2, 3 or 4 Mafia (GF, Mafioso, 1 or 2 cycle roles) [2 for 11 to 12. 3 for 13 to 15. 4 for 16-18]
NK (either SK or WW)
NE (either jester or exe)

1-3 TI (Invest/Sheriff (third is random between Invest, Sheriff, Spy, LO)
1-2 TK (Vig or Vet - Only ONE Vet per game)
1-3 TP (Doc and BG (third is random))
1 TS (Mayor, Medium, Ret)
2-3 RANDOM PICK (could be TI, TK (only on Vet per game), TP, or TS (only one TS branch per game, so if Ret is already picked random TS becomes Med or Mayor))

I did math and my brain hurts.

The reason all this works, for those who don't play ToS is because of the similarities in these roles... For instance... You have a WW game? Invest results for Sheriff show up as Sheriff/Executioner/WW... So anyone claiming Sheriff might get lynched for fear of WW. You might lynch the Medium for fear of Janitor... Might lynch Godfather for fear of Bodyguard.

Paranoia and suspicion are what balances out the teams lol.

But if we wanna keep Vanilla I'm fine with that... I just the idea of giving people more to do. Esp. during night phase.

What did we think of the Last Will idea btw?

 

[LuckycoolHawk9]

I like the idea with vanilla being replaced. Ahh, yes, that reminds we need to make the ToS provision for Ret.

Ret should NOT be able to revive werewolf or mafia like I did in the last Halloween game.
That changes it from a town role to more of a neutral role if they can revive anyone. So either RET should be a neutral evil role that wins with whoever like survivor or not be allowed to accidently revive werewolves, mafia or neutral roles.

 

[Lusterine]

Ret should NOT be able to revive werewolf or mafia like I did in the last Halloween game.
That changes it from a town role to more of a neutral role if they can revive anyone. So either RET should be a neutral evil role that wins with whoever like survivor or not be allowed to accidently revive werewolves, mafia or neutral roles.

I disagree, if anything- this pushes for lynches done by town. You know the role/alignment of someone lynched, but not someone night killed. If town mislynches, they get a do over and can confirm roles of counterclaims.

To make this more clear I'm looking at it this way...

In a 7-10 player game : 2-3 maf (GF, Mafioso and/or one Special Maf role)

The remaining players are town with the core roles being

1 or 2 TI
1 TK
1 or 2 TP
1 TS
1 NK/NE

In an 11-18 player game

2, 3 or 4 Mafia (GF, Mafioso, 1 or 2 cycle roles) [2 for 11 to 12. 3 for 13 to 15. 4 for 16-18]
NK (either SK or WW)
NE (either jester or exe)

1-3 TI (Invest/Sheriff (third is random between Invest, Sheriff, Spy, LO)
1-2 TK (Vig or Vet - Only ONE Vet per game)
1-3 TP (Doc and BG (third is random))
1 TS (Mayor, Medium, Ret)
2-3 RANDOM PICK (could be TI, TK (only on Vet per game), TP, or TS (only one TS branch per game, so if Ret is already picked random TS becomes Med or Mayor))

But if we wanna keep Vanilla I'm fine with that... I just the idea of giving people more to do. Esp. during night phase.

What did we think of the Last Will idea btw?

Invest, I find, is not needed. We have the tracker and lookout duo along with detective. That's effectively 3 TI right there every game. We always have 3 maf per game, so 4 for larger games is fine. NK I agree with along with NE.

I know we want everyone to have a night role, but then we need to add more maf or NE (like witch and survivor) to balance out how much power town will have if we have 2 or more TP. We could Have 2 TS as default.

Last will is hard. Where will this be kept? Does the GM have to message someone individually before announcing deaths to find out what their will is? Because the chances of having a medium is high, just as much information can be exchanged that way as opposed to a will. It'll also encourage the dead to stick around rather than just disappearing.

 

[Elle Joyner]

See... I'm gonna be honest... I feel like LO/Tracker aren't as helpful as Invest. I think we need someone who has at least some chance of straight up finding out roles. The issue in last game was 6 people claimed vanilla and that straight up buried out ability to do anything. I'd rather see at least one investigative option available, to allow more information without being too OP.

I'm also in agreement that Retributionist is only a town role (no reviving neutrals or maf). I'd also suggest that if we use janitor, Ret can't revive anyone who's been cleaned.

And what if for Last Will, after you die you have the option of posting one last time in game (maybe 100 words or less? And you can't post anything learned that night? To prevent it from being too OP?) I dunno. I'm not married to the idea... Just a way to keep track of stuff XD

 

[Joan]

I'm on the road, but some quick thoughts:

-While I love Town of Salem, I'm not particularly interested in this becoming a version of that. I come here to play Mafia, not Town of Salem, and right now it feels like it's heading in a direction where I won't feel like participating anymore. If people wanna play Town of Salem instead, whatevs--just throwing this out there.

-I feel like the basic mechanics we've had have worked fine. Sure, we've had some rough games, but just because of that isn't a reason to change the base mechanics, I don't think. Town have won some games, mafia have won some games, neutrals have won some games--all normal and not as a result of faulty mechanics, at least IMO. This is another part of the earlier point.

-While I get the desire to always have a power role, I personally think vanillas are an important part of the game. That said, we've done full role games before, so -shrugs-