Let's Talk Appearances

[Sir Salty]

So I've been RPing for a very long time. And I have also been writing for a very long time. Just finished my fantasy novel that took me five years to write. Two of those three years was researching and building my own language, the other year was building my own magic system and historic pieces, and the other two spent actually writing the damn thing.

But as a member and as a GM, let's talk about appearances. While some GMs, have qualms about anime pictures I don't necessarily have qualms about anime pictures. As long as they are inserted into a place where they fit.

Whether its an anime based RP, or its a cartoon based RP where everybody is already going to be looking like Danny Phantom.

Where I have trouble with anime pictures is that people insert them where they don't seem to fit. Or they don't chose a style that fits. I am talking fantasty RPs where I prefer to see more realistic drawings. Or where I prefer to see more fantasy drawings.

Or Slice of Life RPs not established as anime slice of life, and everyone else is choosing real people and you have that one unorthodox anime picture just hanging out. Me as a GM probably won't accept that sheet until the picture is entirely changed.

I am a visual thinker. So for me its very hard to replace that cartoony anime style into a realistic frame of mind. When everyone else has realistic or semi realistic looking photos, its really hard for me to fix that cartoony image into a realistic frame of mind.

Looking for pictures is tedious. I get it. I spend way too many hours look for photos, but I tend to find a photo based on not only the look of the character, but the feel. The setting. The era and time and place. I put all of these things into consideration when looking for a photo.

As for Resources, I suggest instead of looking at Google Images using;

Zerochan: HQ Anime Image Board

^They even have a semi realism, and realistic tag when you need an anime picture, but not

Pinterest

^This is my go to, I love Pinterest its where I find most of my characters from here

And we all know of Deviantart, but I feel it too is very limited in what it has resource wise.

So I hope this helps you on your adventures.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

As an artist I have some issues with your image sources. Zerochan often reuploads art from pixiv unauthorized/without permission. I can't say much about pintrest as I don't have an account, but just be sure where you are getting your art from the artist is fine with reposes or using their art for informal non-profit purposes. Deviantart actually is just fine if you know how to filter it. There are many photographers that do nothing but royalty free/non-profit use stock images, sometimes even in period costume! Also, providing that you aren't accidentally brought to an art thief if you get your faceclaim from deviantart you have the artists information so you can properly source, and you can also actually ask the artist to use the art first. Which is really preferred, honestly. I understand why people don't want to ask with the fear of the artist saying "no" but it could be the artists own oc, a deeply personal piece, or a commissioned work someone paid them to do. That being said instead of searching for hours and hours or having like 3 different face/body/outfit claims just... Commission an artist, or stalk around places like dA, tumblr, and the portraits area here and wait for your fav artist to do a raffle/requests/freebies. Honestly you could even do a trade (fic for art) it has happened before I've seen it done.

But I mean hey, reverse image search exists for a reason. You do you, just source your stuff.
(Also, uh, I'm assuming you do mention in the rules or character sheet what style you are looking for right? It hasn't happened in a Very Long Time but I once got in a little kerfuffle over a GM not accepting my app purely because they didn't like the style I drew my reference in, but there was nothing stating that the picture had to look a certain way so I personally found that very rude, sent them a strongly-worded PM and while they conceded I didn't join the rp anyway because I was a petty teen)

 

[Sir Salty]

As an artist I have some issues with your image sources. Zerochan often reuploads art from pixiv unauthorized/without permission. I can't say much about pintrest as I don't have an account, but just be sure where you are getting your art from the artist is fine with reposes or using their art for informal non-profit purposes. Deviantart actually is just fine if you know how to filter it. There are many photographers that do nothing but royalty free/non-profit use stock images, sometimes even in period costume! Also, providing that you aren't accidentally brought to an art thief if you get your faceclaim from deviantart you have the artists information so you can properly source, and you can also actually ask the artist to use the art first. Which is really preferred, honestly. I understand why people don't want to ask with the fear of the artist saying "no" but it could be the artists own oc, a deeply personal piece, or a commissioned work someone paid them to do. That being said instead of searching for hours and hours or having like 3 different face/body/outfit claims just... Commission an artist, or stalk around places like dA, tumblr, and the portraits area here and wait for your fav artist to do a raffle/requests/freebies. Honestly you could even do a trade (fic for art) it has happened before I've seen it done.

I am not making money off of their art work, and they put it on the internet. Unless there is a specific copyright, I'm going to use it.

Second off I don't have the kind of money to spend 30+ dollars on a commission piece. That's a lot of money I don't have.

And I am specifically talking about sources, so for example

If we're doing an Anime RP, Use Anime Pictures

If we're doing a Fantasy RP, Use Fantasy Pictures

If we're doing a Live Action RP, Use Live Action

Its jarring in my brain to say do a Ferris Bueler RP, and someone chooses an anime picture over a live action picture. I am a visual thinker so in my brain category Ferris Bueler is Live Action, thus use live action photos.

If we're doing a Sailor Moon RP, use anime pictures

etc.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't saying you didn't have to use images I was just saying zerochan is a bad source. I was not at all saying not to use others artwork. Just to source and ask when possible. And Zerochan is not an original source, it is an image board that reposts art mostly from pixiv, while Deviantart is an actual website where the artist themself posts the art both drawn and photography!

I would have left it at that but I have to say that line your line of thinking is abhorrent! How would you feel if I took your fanfic, just changed the names of the characters, linked it around to my friends and if you learned and became upset I simply said "oh but you put it online right? It's not for profit, but I liked the look of it so I'm using it for my own pleasure!" And don't even try to say that it's not the same thing because it totally is! And, hey, maybe I'm being presumptuous in thinking that would bother you. Maybe it doesn't. Good for you in that case, but just be aware that many folks would be very upset if that happened to them.

Honestly tell me: is asking "hey I like this piece can I use it for a face claim" so hard? Is taking the two seconds to include a link back to the original piece on your character sheet that much of a hassle? I'm pleased as punch with either

 

[Sidhe]

Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't saying you didn't have to use images I was just saying zerochan is a bad source. I was not at all saying not to use others artwork. Just to source and ask when possible. And Zerochan is not an original source, it is an image board that reposts art mostly from pixiv, while Deviantart is an actual website where the artist themself posts the art both drawn and photography!

I would have left it at that but I have to say that line your line of thinking is abhorrent! How would you feel if I took your fanfic, just changed the names of the characters, linked it around to my friends and if you learned and became upset I simply said "oh but you put it online right? It's not for profit, but I liked the look of it so I'm using it for my own pleasure!" And don't even try to say that it's not the same thing because it totally is! And, hey, maybe I'm being presumptuous in thinking that would bother you. Maybe it doesn't. Good for you in that case, but just be aware that many folks would be very upset if that happened to them.

Honestly tell me: is asking "hey I like this piece can I use it for a face claim" so hard? Is taking the two seconds to include a link back to the original piece on your character sheet that much of a hassle? I'm pleased as punch with either

I remember getting a PM from someone on this site quite a while ago, when I put up some of my characters and requested that folks didn't use their images for their own characters because I commissioned them specifically for mine

and they were like...
'yo your characters are nice but, like, you put that art on the internet soooo anyone can take them it's free game'

yeah, dude, I know how the internet works
but that is super rude. Super, duper rude. If you see someone explicitly asking you not to use their art for your own shit, the appropriate response is not 'lol w/e it's the internet bros I do what I want'.

 

[Sir Salty]

Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't saying you didn't have to use images I was just saying zerochan is a bad source. I was not at all saying not to use others artwork. Just to source and ask when possible. And Zerochan is not an original source, it is an image board that reposts art mostly from pixiv, while Deviantart is an actual website where the artist themself posts the art both drawn and photography!

I would have left it at that but I have to say that line your line of thinking is abhorrent! How would you feel if I took your fanfic, just changed the names of the characters, linked it around to my friends and if you learned and became upset I simply said "oh but you put it online right? It's not for profit, but I liked the look of it so I'm using it for my own pleasure!" And don't even try to say that it's not the same thing because it totally is! And, hey, maybe I'm being presumptuous in thinking that would bother you. Maybe it doesn't. Good for you in that case, but just be aware that many folks would be very upset if that happened to them.

Honestly tell me: is asking "hey I like this piece can I use it for a face claim" so hard? Is taking the two seconds to include a link back to the original piece on your character sheet that much of a hassle? I'm pleased as punch with either

I don't put any of the work I look to publish online and turn a profit for. But it's not abhorrent line of thinking.

I don't mean to put this out there, but that is the definition of fair use. If I am using something not entirely for the same purposes as the original artist, and I am not making any money off of it, and I am not claiming the picture is mine. Then it should be completely fine.

I leave the watermarks, as long as they are not ridiculous to look at because they distract from the whole photo and take up most of the detail. And I give people the sources.

If someone PMs and asked me not use a specific work, fine.

But I am also not going to sit there and change the way I have been RPing for 12 years now because someone's got their bridges tightly spun.

 

[Sidhe]

I leave the watermarks, as long as they are not ridiculous to look at because they distract from the whole photo and take up most of the detail. And I give people the sources.

ignoring the rest of your post:

yo, I don't care how ugly or intrusive someone's watermark is, you don't remove that shit. If it bothers you, then don't use that image. Don't remove it. That is abhorrent.

 

[Sir Salty]

ignoring the rest of your post:

yo, I don't care how ugly or intrusive someone's watermark is, you don't remove that shit. If it bothers you, then don't use that image. Don't remove it. That is abhorrent.

I still give credit to the artist if someone ask.

No one is claiming a picture is there. No one assume the picture is there. Unless they say otherwise.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

I don't put any of the work I look to publish online and turn a profit for. But it's not abhorrent line of thinking.

I don't mean to put this out there, but that is the definition of fair use. If I am using something not entirely for the same purposes as the original artist, and I am not making any money off of it, and I am not claiming the picture is mine. Then it should be completely fine.

I leave the watermarks, as long as they are not ridiculous to look at because they distract from the whole photo and take up most of the detail. And I give people the sources.

If someone PMs and asked me not use a specific work, fine.

But I am also not going to sit there and change the way I have been RPing for 12 years now because someone's got their bridges tightly spun.

If an artist on their page or under the image itself has a line that says "Do not repost anywhere/use for your own use without permission" or, and I've seen this, "Do not use/edit for rp/icons" would you still take it? Because if you do it is no longer fair use and the artist has every right to tell you "no" and ask you, or the staff of iwaku, to take the art down. That's why I said not to use zerochan, because it's uploaded often without the artist knowing so you don't know if the artist has a "do not repost/use/etc" statement.
Also removing watermarks is honestly the worst thing you could do next to claiming that it's your art and selling it, because usually when someone's watermark is that big that means that they are dealing with rampant art theft and reposing (usually to instagram/9gag/zerochan/etcetcetc) and they want the credit because often that art is their livelihood, or that that art was something someone else paid for, and they gave the watermark-free version to the customer and put a Big Ol' Watermark on the one they posted to their gallery to ensure their customer got the best highest quality version of the piece, but still was able to show it off as a portfolio piece. Newsflash: Art isn't put on the internet for people to use.

Also stop acting like this is a personal attack on how you RP. It's not even an integral part of the rp it's a gosh darn picture on a character sheet. And all I'm saying is next to include a tiny little link that says "source" and links back to the artist's gallery. That's it. Bare minimum. Doesn't matter if its photography or drawn art just a tiiiiiny little link. Heck, when I started rping we didn't even use pictures (though okay I concede it's because of the platforms I used) we wrote everything out. The type of picture you use, and whether or not you source it has little to do with how one actually rps. You aren't rping at that point, you are proposing a character to the GM in hopes that you can, later, rp. If you need a picture for that, that's fine. I don't care. I honestly don't care if you use a picture or not that's not the point. I'm just saying to link back to the artist, or if it's from a show mention the show, just put the tiniest bit more effort to be a good person? Maybe?

Like, damn, to imagine this all happened just because I tried to say that zerochan is actually worse of a source than deviantart and as an afterthought included a bit of an artists plug. It's clear now you don't actually care about an artist's thoughts/feelings.

 

[Sir Salty]

Like, damn, to imagine this all happened just because I tried to say that zerochan is actually worse of a source than deviantart and as an afterthought included a bit of an artists plug. It's clear now you don't actually care about an artist's thoughts/feelings.

First off, again I tell people who asked who the artist is. And often the watermarks I remove are from Paizo or some big name company. Not a small time artist. I even leave original signature marks into the art work, that should be enough.

Second off, It's not just an image. I explained before I am a visual thinker. The photo I am using, is what inspired my character face claim. I didn't go off searching for a FC with a picture in mind or just chose. Often its the images that inspire the character. Again visual thinker. I think with pictures in my head.

Third off;

If an artist ask me to remove a photo, I will

If an artist ask a mod to remove the photo, fine

But any other photo, no. And if someone ask me where I got it I'll tell you the artist.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

First off, again I tell people who asked who the artist is. And often the watermarks I remove are from Paizo or some big name company. Not a small time artist. I even leave original signature marks into the art work, that should be enough.

Second off, It's not just an image. I explained before I am a visual thinker. The photo I am using, is what inspired my character face claim. I didn't go off searching for a FC with a picture in mind or just chose. Often its the images that inspire the character. Again visual thinker. I think with pictures in my head.

Third off;

If an artist ask me to remove a photo, I will

If an artist ask a mod to remove the photo, fine

But any other photo, no. And if someone ask me where I got it I'll tell you the artist.

And I am saying, one shouldn't have to ask who the artist is, or find out with a reverse image search. You should take the extra two seconds to just put the artist's website link next to the image. I'm sure the artists kimberly80, sephiroth-art, and bosslogic will all agree with me (and before you get huffy I didn't actually contact anyone, I'm not that cold).

 

[Sir Salty]

And I am saying, one shouldn't have to ask who the artist is, or find out with a reverse image search. You should take the extra two seconds to just put the artist's website link next to the image. I'm sure the artists kimberly80, sephiroth-art, and bosslogic will all agree with me (and before you get huffy I didn't actually contact anyone, I'm not that cold).

I am not going to do that. They can ask me.

But my character sheet is not their to promote your work.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

I am not going to do that. They can ask me.

But my character sheet is not their to promote your work.

Well you clearly didn't look at kimberly80's dA page very closely, given that this is right on the front.
Whoops

 

[Sir Salty]

Well you clearly didn't look at kimberly80's dA page very closely, given that this is right on the front.
Whoops

I hadn't gotten the picture from her Deviantart, still going to use the image unless otherwise asked. And again I know the artist and give her full credit.

Again no one in the RPs are claiming the images ARE THEIR images. And no one is assuming unless otherwise stated.

edit-

Should clarify, I just didn't read her journal entry.

 

[Sir Salty]

Well you clearly didn't look at kimberly80's dA page very closely, given that this is right on the front.
Whoops

Actually, no I am going to further go through this. I know mostly every artist image I use in my RPs. If you ask me I can tell you who the artist and give you the gallery if you like and ask for it.

But this happened to Youtube as well. Youtube, a long time ago I was really into AMVs. Then copyright hit, and took down my channel. All the videos I made were hit by the music industry or the anime industry.

Fair use is fair use. If I am not using the image for the same audience as you, giving you credit, will promote you when asked, not claiming the work is mine. Then I should be able to use the photo.

Stop people from using your pictures on RPs because they don't feel the need to site their sources. Your images stop getting distributed and you get less clientèle.

It's kind of the reason why the music industry was kind of dumb. Normally if someone heard an AMV "oh hey that song was cool whose the artist". Ah it says so in the credits, but here is so and so.

Its free advertising.

 

[Sir Salty]

I further add;

Fair use provides breathing space in copyright law, making sure that control of the right to copy and distribute doesn't become control of the right to create and innovate. New technologies and services depend on the creation of multiple copies as a matter of course. At the same time, copyright terms cover works many decades old and copyrighted software appears in more and more devices. Taken together, these developments mean the potential reach of copyright may extend ever further. Fair use makes sure that the rights of the public expand at the same time, so add-on creativity and innovation can continue to thrive. In other words, "fair use creep" is an essential corollary to "copyright creep."

And thanks to copyright rules protecting fair uses, other creative people, their users and the public had (and have) an opportunity to engage with those works in new and unexpected ways.

Fair Use Is Not An Exception to Copyright, It's Essential to Copyright

 

[AutumnWyvern]

I hadn't gotten the picture from her Deviantart, still going to use the image unless otherwise asked. And again I know the artist and give her full credit.

Again no one in the RPs are claiming the images ARE THEIR images. And no one is assuming unless otherwise stated.

edit-

Should clarify, I just didn't read her journal entry.

" I have recently come across often using my work without my consent, so I have to write about this, ladies and gentlemen, I forbid you to use my work for commercial purposes, use them anywhere else without my permission or attempt to use with some changes,"
Idk man it sounds like you shouldn't have used that image in the first place. I doubt they have the time to personally go out an ask every single person to take down their art, especially when English is their second language. I think that plea is pretty good grounds to not use that art. Or, you know, send a message and ask.
Or you can admit you don't give a damn about artists I guess.

Stop people from using your pictures on RPs because they don't feel the need to site their sources. Your images stop getting distributed and you get less clientèle.

Its free advertising.

You do realize it's only free advertising if you... Say who the artist is right? And that this is directly contradicting how you feel that character sheets aren't a way to promote someone's work? So what is it?

I mean it's clear you haven't seen the occasions where comics have the author signature cropped off or reposed to tons of places, and the reposted image gets millions more hits while no one knows who the artist is. There are many artists who have spoken about it but this particular story has gone around a lot recently so.

Fun fact: The parodies Weird Al makes he could totally do without permission it's within fair use as a parody work. But, he asks every single artist first. And if they say no he doesn't do it! He is a decent person.
But apparently when a Russian artist asks for people not to use her artwork her thoughts and feelings don't matter because "lol free use mate"
Also I mean fair use is more like... Editing/remixing art (hence the "innovation" bit) for your own personal enjoyment not. Literally taking art off of someone's dA unedited and unaccredited. But hey I'm an art student not a lawyer what do I know

 

[Sir Salty]

" I have recently come across often using my work without my consent, so I have to write about this, ladies and gentlemen, I forbid you to use my work for commercial purposes, use them anywhere else without my permission or attempt to use with some changes,"
Idk man it sounds like you shouldn't have used that image in the first place. I doubt they have the time to personally go out an ask every single person to take down their art, especially when English is their second language. I think that plea is pretty good grounds to not use that art. Or, you know, send a message and ask.
Or you can admit you don't give a damn about artists I guess.

You do realize it's only free advertising if you... Say who the artist is right? And that this is directly contradicting how you feel that character sheets aren't a way to promote someone's work? So what is it?

I mean it's clear you haven't seen the occasions where comics have the author signature cropped off or reposed to tons of places, and the reposted image gets millions more hits while no one knows who the artist is. There are many artists who have spoken about it but this particular story has gone around a lot recently so.

Fun fact: The parodies Weird Al makes he could totally do without permission it's within fair use as a parody work. But, he asks every single artist first. And if they say no he doesn't do it! He is a decent person.
But apparently when a Russian artist asks for people not to use her artwork her thoughts and feelings don't matter because "lol free use mate"
Also I mean fair use is more like... Editing/remixing art (hence the "innovation" bit) for your own personal enjoyment not. Literally taking art off of someone's dA unedited and unaccredited. But hey I'm an art student not a lawyer what do I know

Stealing artwork is not synonymous to "I know the artist and will give credit to the artist when asked who the artist is and give them their gallery"

Stealing artwork is also not synonymous to "I don't claim the art is mine in any stretch of the imagination, and that I merely was inspired to use the art"

You don't seem to realize something. So let me help;

Clamshell packaging was put up in most department stores, like office space, or Best Buy, to prevent theft. There's a point to this.

A thief doesn't matter what anti-theft protection you have put up. If they have set their mind to steal something. They have set their mind to steal something.

Copyright and preventing other people to use your art work to stop thieves is not going to help you stop theft. A thief is a thief.

I will give full credit to the artist when asked

I will link to their art gallery when asked

But I also adhere to Fair Use, and Weird Al Yankovic is well 1) Richer than I so people are more inclined to say yes. And 2) That's a very nice thing of him to do, but he doesn't have to.

And just like he doesn't have to. Neither do I.

 

[AutumnWyvern]

This seemed to go over your head: I mentioned Weird Al because I think you are an ass.

If you think that because you know the artist it's all fine and dandy that you don't have to source it unless someone asks: that makes you a jerk, not quite asshole level, but it's still rude.

If you sincerely think that the only scenario that you should take down art that an artist has publicly requested not to be reposed is for them to sign up for a website they will never use and personally send you a message then you are, without a doubt, an ass.


Is it the norm not to source art? Yes. Am I aware that people are not claiming this art as their own? Yes. Do I like it? No. But, I do try to bring up sourcing art whenever I can because with a little push I believe sourcing can become normalized, and that will be lovely. But don't get me wrong I don't go around rifling through every character sheet I see and sourcing their images. Look through my posts all you like but I don't harass people about this unprovoked. Honestly just look back at my first post.
I was saying zerochan is a bad place to get art from. That's how this started. And all I have learned from this that you are a stubborn asshole who does not care an ounce about artists unless it's for your own personal gain.
I suppose it's lucky for you that you don't link to any social media, or I would tell all my art friends to watch out for you and not allow you to use their art or accept commissions from you, and I sincerely hope any other artist on iwaku who sees this thread does the same because if think so lowly of artists than you do not deserve to use their art.
And, unless someone else chimes in an wants my opinion (ping me if such is the case) that is all I'm going to say on the matter. It's clear that you don't give two shits about what I'm saying.
It's been fun, really. Enjoy your weekend and all that stuff. I hope to not see you around, though.