Let's talk about appropriation...

[angrycactuar]

Kitti, I've never thought of it that way. That is a fantastic point!

 

[fatalrendezvous]

Agree agree agree. Hopefully Diana's comment wasn't directed at me, because I certainly didn't mean to come across as saying that white folks will never experience racism or understand it. There are plenty of instances where racism towards whites occurs, and lately white people have gotten the worst of it (take the Zimmerman case for example). Nowadays people of minority ethnic groups feel they have so much power or clout that they can cry foul at the most minor thing, and they see any action a white person makes towards a non-white person as racially motivated.

That whole thing has to stop, in my opinion. Respect is a two-way street. People can't expect others to respect them if they don't offer the same in return.

That said, appropriation is not always a bad thing. In fact there are so many facets of our everyday lives that are appropriated nowadays, that for any one of us to shun appropriation would be hypocritical.

 

[Zen]

Well here's a different angle to the discussion. This is a TED Talk concerning people who can call several countries their homes. I think it's rather awesome that these people travel around so much, but what if the speaker or anyone, tried to wear something that didn't look like it was from their heritage, but in all honesty lived in that culture for an extended period of time? Is culture related to what you look like, or how you're raised?

 

[Cammeh]

Okay, [MENTION=5122]fatalrendezvous[/MENTION], before this thread takes a horrendously bad turn, I'm gonna stop you right there.

I have been literally sick over that case and I really don't want to get into a fight over it on the forum. That entire case smacked of racism from the court system to the laws, to Zimmerman himself. While I have to actually agree with Diana's comment, the Zimmerman case is in NO POSSIBLE WAY associated. The justice system is flawed, and it is broken, because it is run by people who are flawed and broken.

Remember, this is a man who had previously called 9-1-1 on black children as young as 9 as suspicious persons, who went after an unarmed YOUTH after he was told REPEATEDLY by the operator NOT TO APPROACH HIM, attacked and struggled with the youth, and eventually shot him. This was a man who was able to obtain a gun license DESPITE a violent record. He was prosecuted by the same attorney who sentenced a black mother to 20 YEARS in jail for firing a WARNING SHOT, which hit and injured NOBODY to scare off an ABUSIVE husband. Don't tell me that this case was not about race. And even beyond this case, the justice system is far more likely to arrest, charge, convict and jail blacks, especially black males, than whites. This is the same state that brought charges against a black honour role student because of a science experiment gone wrong. Literally brought the cops to the school and arrested the girl over an ACCIDENT. You honestly tell me if they would've done the same to a white student. It is completely insane.

What People of Colour (POC) are protesting and fighting for in every state, is to remove unjust laws and practices that actively target them and give them less of a legal standing to defend themselves. New York's 'stop and frisk' law specifically targets blacks and muslims, if not in word in practice, and just YESTERDAY the mayor vetoed a bill to remove it. Florida and other states' 'Stand Your Ground' laws are repeatedly held up for whites, and repeatedly denied for blacks. Instead of protecting people, they've pretty much turned the state into 'Open Season' on minorities. The Voting Rights Act that was just gutted by the Supreme Court? Within hours and days of it being torn down, states have enacted draconian and severe laws restricting voting practices that disproportionally affect minorities and the poor.

Black mothers literally drill into their sons step by step what to do if approached by a cop. To minorities, cops are not protectors, cops are a threat. So please, don't even BEGIN to talk about crying foul over a 'minor thing'. This case is only big because of the media attention that it received. It is by no means an odd or singular event. This is happening around the country, by civilians AND BY POLICE. Unarmed youth are being shot down in the street on an almost daily basis, and their murderers are going free. That is what POC are protesting in regards to this case.

TL;DR - DON'T bring up Zimmerman as an issue of 'reverse racism' because it unequivocally IS NOT. There is more than a century of history and experiences behind the intense feelings and pain that people are expressing. So we're not even going to bring this up again here. If you want to talk to me in private about it, that's fine.

 

[fatalrendezvous]

[MENTION=961]Cammyotter[/MENTION] I'll message you about it.

 

[Kooriryu]

Cammu, you find you need help linking anything about that piece to elucidate on your stance you come tell me. I got links, articles, videos and collected tweets where everyone's showin' their ass about it.

I got you.

 

[Kitti]

In following up on my earlier sentiment, I think this is as good a place as any to think of what things we each have that tie in with our own "personal culture" as well as our heritage. After all, not all households with practicing Catholics do the same things and the same is true for pretty much anything else.

It's also good, I think, to remember that you can admire, be interested in, and learn about another culture and that this is a positive thing. I think that Japanese and Chinese traditional attire is beautiful and I know that many people agree. I also find a poignant beauty in many of the mourning practices of native tribes. I hope that appreciation, interest, and curiosity are encouraged to flourish. As negative as appropriation for whims can be, I think it would be more harmful to chastise and discourage the innocent desire to learn more about the traditions of others and express an admiration or affection for certain things.

 

[fatalrendezvous]

Kitti makes a good point. I kind of brushed past it earlier, but we see appropriation of all kinds all the time. If you think about it, things as simple as fast-food pizza or Chinese take-out are both technically appropriated. ^^;

But ultimately I think that understanding the culture is the most important thing. If you really take the time to learn the significance of something, it gives you perspective and, I think, makes you a better person in the long run.

 

[Cammeh]

Re: my earlier rant, [MENTION=5122]fatalrendezvous[/MENTION] and I have talked via PM, and I think it's only fair that she get to post her response to me here, and we can talk about it or just let it go. I know it's a very sensitive topic and a lot of people have a lot of very strong feelings about it, but what she wrote was very clear on her position on it and I feel she should be allowed to say it here. So if we're going to discuss it further on here, let's just be sure to keep a civil discourse.

Thanks.

 

[fatalrendezvous]

I will try to keep it brief. Cammyotter I think, misunderstood my post, and just to make sure other people don't misunderstand it as well:

There are plenty of instances where racism towards whites occurs, and lately white people have gotten the worst of it (take the Zimmerman case for example). Nowadays people of minority ethnic groups feel they have so much power or clout that they can cry foul at the most minor thing, and they see any action a white person makes towards a non-white person as racially motivated.

I did not mean to dismiss the Zimmerman case as a minor thing. Obviously it's huge, and is going to be one of those legal battles that people will remember for a long time. I meant that sentence to be an entirely separate thought from the following sentence (about minorities getting upset over little things).

That is basically where the misunderstanding began, and of course I didn't mean for it to come off that way. For posterity I'll leave the post as is without editing, and hope that people will read this far down to sort of understand where I was coming from. I don't want to derail the topic by posting word-for-word what I sent to Cammyotter, and I definitely don't want to turn the thread into a legal discussion (because I know from experience that those can get really ugly, really fast). If anyone wants to talk about Zimmerman, I will be happy to do so, either in private or in a different thread - this thread is not really the place for that.

But essentially I meant that there are a lot of people these days who abuse the racism card. In my experience, it has a lot to do with trying to "get back at the white man," trying to get revenge for a wrong that they feel happened to them, whether it was in their lifetime or in their ancestors' lifetimes. I've seen people of all ethnic groups use it. If their service was bad at a restaurant, they cry racism. If a driver cuts them off on the road, they say it's racism. And my point is, that needs to stop. It's not how society heals. We have to respect each other, even if you sometimes don't feel the other person has earned it or deserves it. That goes for everyone - it doesn't just apply to the people of one race or culture or background.

And I'm glad (and thankful) that Cammyotter respected me enough to hear me out on it. ♥

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming!