How important is representation in the media to you?

How important is representation in the media to you?

  • Very important

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • Somewhat important

    Votes: 6 21.4%
  • Not that important

    Votes: 8 28.6%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 10 35.7%

  • Total voters
    28
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To me personally, not that important. I think that until people get over their shit though, having characters with a wide variety of traits and identities is good, if not essential, for many young people to have. At least, until the time these traits don't matter any more and identities combine into person.
 
I have been summoned, it seems.

This has no morally correct answer. Therefore, it is a matter purely of taste. Therefore, while I voted "it doesn't matter" purely for the sake of putting a poll option in, the real answer is "depends on the context of the fiction at hand." It's perfectly okay for a story to exist solely to appease, entertain, or represent, any particular market demographic, be it positive or negative. I'd love to see more kids shows with a variety of people--white or black, tall or short, skinny or fat, straight or gay, or whatever else. Normalize it for kids, yo, that'd be neat. 'Cept, something to keep in mind is this: Parents who utterly loathe, say, homosexuals, and who don't want their children to be "infected by the gay", will just prevent their children from watching TV shows containing gay characters.

Also, a TV show, a movie, a book, or whatever else, only has as much power as you grant it. It's ultimately fiction at the end of the day, and the same barrier that prevents violent video games from turning me into a psychopathic murderer or pornography from turning me into a rapist, also applies to more minor things, like tolerance and acceptance. You can preach a good value all day, but if a person doesn't care for it, they'll never hear you.

So, therefore, do whatever you like with TV or movies or games or books. Have as much or as little representation in the media as you like. As a personal example: Legend of Renalta, the RP I'm running now, has a couple bisexual NPC's. LGBT characters appear quite often in my stories because I grew up with a homosexual best friend, and I saw how she was bullied through life for it by other people. She role plays with me, so my fantasy worlds adjusted to include materials that would make her feel less like some terrible outcast, and more like someone who is just... A normal person. Not "a normal person who is gay", just a normal person. Whilst I've included that, I don't generally touch upon race issues very often. I've written black NPC's, but they don't pop up as often as LGBT characters. Some would say that's a bad thing. Others would say to stick to my guns. Neither of their opinions matter, only mine does.

Do I like my own stories?

Yes.

Do I think they could improve?

Always.

Leave authors and directors alone to build whatever they want. That's how you get new and interesting stuff. That's how you get shit on entirely opposite ends of the spectrum to exist. Stuff like Steven Universe, or Rick & Morty. Bob Ross, or George Carlin. Let creators create freely, and let critics speak freely. That's how art thrives. :ferret:


tl;dr: It only matters if the creator of the piece of media in question says it matters. If the creator says it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Let artists art, and we'll get tons of LGBT stuff by virtue of people with feelings wanting to create LGBT content. I should be stating the painfully obvious, really.
 
I put somewhat important since I thought it was nice to see a diverse cast in the movie Big Hero 6 and shows like The Walking Dead, Steven Universe and Miraculous Ladybug but didn't really freak out/make a big deal out of it.

ANYWAYS, I have a question, regarding a situation similar to this
... Mortal Kombat character Jacqui Briggs. She's being portrayed by Pepi Solunga in a new MK webseries called Mortal Kombat Generations. Pepi is Nigerian and Scottish while Jacqui is African-American.
My question is about the casting of movie The Edge of Tomorrow and any other media that have a similar situation but I'm not sure if it's okay to ask it here, even if given the topic in OP's post. And I don't want cause a debate either ._. So if I can get assurance that my question is okay to ask and won't cause a storm then I will post it. Otherwise, if anyone wants to know what it is, you can certainly pm me. I won't debate with you on it, I just want to hear opinions.
 
I put somewhat important since I thought it was nice to see a diverse cast in the movie Big Hero 6 and shows like The Walking Dead, Steven Universe and Miraculous Ladybug but didn't really freak out/make a big deal out of it.

ANYWAYS, I have a question, regarding a situation similar to this

My question is about the casting of movie The Edge of Tomorrow and any other media that have a similar situation but I'm not sure if it's okay to ask it here, even if given the topic in OP's post. And I don't want cause a debate either ._. So if I can get assurance that my question is okay to ask and won't cause a storm then I will post it. Otherwise, if anyone wants to know what it is, you can certainly pm me. I won't debate with you on it, I just want to hear opinions.
Since it has to do with representation (I'm assuming) then yeah it's fine to post your question
 
Since it has to do with representation (I'm assuming) then yeah it's fine to post your question
more of a whitewashing sort of deal, but yeah. See where this can go?

Hmm, I'll wait for one more person to say they want to hear it for extra reassurance. But thanks for allowing it though!
 
I provided links to Wikipedia articles about the movies and books in case anyone is curious or would like sources.

Pretty much the Edge of Tomorrow stars Tom Cruise as the main character. Yeah, he's white, but a really great actor imo and the story overall was amazing. I really enjoyed it. About a month later I found out the movie was based on a Japanese novel where main character is of Japanese descent. I was surprised. And I know this has happened before, where the original source's protagonist was of Asian descent and they change the race to white in a live action movie (look at Dragon Ball Evolution and The Last Airbender)

ALSO I just remembered these now but there was a reverse-whitewashing in a few other movies. Cinna and Boggs from The Hunger Games are written as white in the books but in the movies they are black. Even in Thor, Heimdall who is a Norse god, is black in the movies.

I'll admit I was surprised and maybe a little thrown off at the casting for most of these movies but I still enjoyed them after I got over my initial shock. I probably would enjoy it again (except for DBE and TLA cause I heard they did baaaaaaaaaaaad xD).

So my question is it in bad taste to change a character's race from the original source, whether it be whitewashing, reverse-white washing or even Yellow Face? Even if they can make a damn good story? Bonus: Is this also a way of bad representation?
 
I provided links to Wikipedia articles about the movies and books in case anyone is curious or would like sources.

Pretty much the Edge of Tomorrow stars Tom Cruise as the main character. Yeah, he's white, but a really great actor imo and the story overall was amazing. I really enjoyed it. About a month later I found out the movie was based on a Japanese novel where main character is of Japanese descent. I was surprised. And I know this has happened before, where the original source's protagonist was of Asian descent and they change the race to white in a live action movie (look at Dragon Ball Evolution and The Last Airbender)

ALSO I just remembered these now but there was a reverse-whitewashing in a few other movies. Cinna and Boggs from The Hunger Games are written as white in the books but in the movies they are black. Even in Thor, Heimdall who is a Norse god, is black in the movies.

I'll admit I was surprised and maybe a little thrown off at the casting for most of these movies but I still enjoyed them after I got over my initial shock. I probably would enjoy it again (except for DBE and TLA cause I heard they did baaaaaaaaaaaad xD).

So my question is it in bad taste to change a character's race from the original source, whether it be whitewashing, reverse-white washing or even Yellow Face? Even if they can make a damn good story? Bonus: Is this also a way of bad representation?
I never saw the Edge of Tomorrow so I have no comment on it.

Dragon Ball Evolution and The Last Airbender are HATED by everyone for a reason ya know.

As for your question, if it doesn't really matter much and their race isn't taken into context in the original source, then I don't see much of a problem.

For example, Mulan (and the sequel) are my favorite Disney movies of all time. Disney is in the process of making a live-action version of Mulan. If Mulan is recast as a white woman, I will be pretty pissed. Not just because I love Mulan but because changing her race makes no sense and ruins the point of the film to begin with. But since Disney has a very good track record with casting for non-whites, I have confidence that they'll cast Mulan perfectly.
 
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So my question is it in bad taste to change a character's race from the original source, whether it be whitewashing, reverse-white washing or even Yellow Face? Even if they can make a damn good story? Bonus: Is this also a way of bad representation?
I dunno, it depends on the context of the story again. If their race means nothing to the content of the story, then no. If their race means something to the content of the story, then yes, you shouldn't, because it compromises the original intent of the author. If you want to retell the story and remix the content into something new, and part of that is inverting a race role or something, that's fine. Practical example?

Take Robin Hood. Robin Hood could be white, or he could be black, and the nature of the tale does not change: He is a thief who steals from the rich and gives to the poor. His core motif is that he's a thief, not that he's black or white.

Compare and contrast to, say, Django Unchained, where the fact that the main protagonist is black is a core part of the story, as it's situated in America during the era of the slave trade. Casting him as a white guy would cause some of the story to make no sense whatsoever given the context of the tale.

So, basically, it's generally wrong to whitewash (or reverse whitewash?) a role, if the race of the character in that role matters at all to the nature of the character. That's where the distinction is made. It should also be noted that if the race change is part of an overall rewriting of the story--a reinterpretation as opposed to a direct play-by-play remake--then it might also be okay to do it then, if it's being handled with care, and it's openly acknowledged that it goes contrast to the source material.

I've never seen Edge of Tomorrow, but from what I've heard through the grapevine, seen on clips and trailers on YouTube and other locations, it doesn't seem like the race of the protagonist matters. If Tom Cruise was black, would it change the nature of the character or the story at all? From what I understand, it's a time travel action packed adventure story. The protagonist's main quality is being a reluctant hero thrown into a shithole and given a magical power, ala the classic "rise of the squire into a knight" or "boy becomes a man" arc, with "man versus monster" as the core conflict.

Just my two cents on the topic. Take it for what you will.
 
So my question is it in bad taste to change a character's race from the original source, whether it be whitewashing, reverse-white washing or even Yellow Face? Even if they can make a damn good story? Bonus: Is this also a way of bad representation?
Basically what the others have already said. It's fine if the race, sex etc was just a footnote and not of any actual relevance or importance to the character.
But if it's something that ties in to the plot, story, theme etc. then there's going to be some problems. Not problems in a discriminatory sense though, just in a "this doesn't make any sense" manner.

For example...

Batman being black? Sure.
Wonderwoman being a man? ...What?

Actually, MAYBE you might be able to pull a Gender Identity thing with that one. I'm not a big follower of her so I can't say for sure. But my basic understanding is her powers descends from amazons, who are meant to be all women. And apparently in some versions, symbolism female power vs men. So for that to suddenly be a man? It'd be odd, where I can could only see it done if the sex was male but the identity was female.
 
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Basically what the others have already said. It's fine if the race, sex etc was just a footnote and not of any actual relevance or importance to the character.
But if it's something that ties in to the plot, story, theme etc. then there's going to be some problems. Not problems in a discriminatory sense though, just in a "this doesn't make any sense" manner.

For example...

Batman being black? Sure.
Wonderwoman being a man? ...What?

Actually, MAYBE you might be able to pull a Gender Identity thing with that one. I'm not a big follower of her so I can't say for sure. But my basic understanding is her powers descends from amazons, who are meant to be all women. And apparently in some versions, symbolism female power vs men. So for that to suddenly be a man? It'd be odd, where I can could only see it done if the sex was male but the identity was female.
Think female Thor-wise. Maybe she died or SMTH so there's now a Wonderman in a flashy outfit?
 
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Actually wait... I can see it coming from either direction now that I've thought about it.

Gender F/Sex M: Identifies as a woman, fights for women, works with women (ex: amazons) etc.
Gender M/Sex F: More of a thing where the powers are biological based, and/or everyone treats him as a woman because of biology.
Think female Thor-wise. Maybe she died or SMTH so there's now a Wonderman in a flashy outfit?
This could work too. XD
 
Think female Thor-wise. Maybe she died or SMTH so there's now a Wonderman in a flashy outfit?
This would probably count as a re-imagining of the same concept. Ergo you get some liberties to twist the formula. It's the basis behind all the "alternate universe" DC/Marvel stuff too, like whenever Superman is evil? Re-imagining of the same character.
 
This would probably count as a re-imagining of the same concept. Ergo you get some liberties to twist the formula. It's the basis behind all the "alternate universe" DC/Marvel stuff too, like whenever Superman is evil? Re-imagining of the same character.
But as far as I know, the female Thor is the official Thor atm (or was, IDK).

I get what you mean, though.
 
But as far as I know, the female Thor is the official Thor atm (or was, IDK).

I get what you mean, though.
Yeah, different character because it's a remake of the same concept, but with a twist. They probably figured people would be more likely to accept it if it was a different character, and that's usually the best way to go about it with well beloved characters.
 
Not that important. Minority representation in media does some good things, but I prefer artistic integrity over pandering to a certain audience. I'd rather see the best product that can be made rather than one that was hobbled by shoehorning in flat one-note characters to represent certain demographic groups or passing over fantastic actors for simply decent ones that represent a certain demographic group. Quality of the product > adherence to social politics.

The one exception to my stance of "do whatever, fuck it, make your art like you want" is something others have already brought up: visual media set in specific locations/times where the people are/were almost entirely of one racial group, then your casting should fit that. It's just awkward and immersion-killing if you say something is set in feudal Japan but you've got a bunch of white people and a token black guy to make up the main cast (unless you're working with a plot for which that makes sense, like time travel or the main characters are tourists or so on).
 
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They probably figured people would be more likely to accept it if it was a different character
[2] I was one of the people pissed off when I heard they were trying to replace Thor.

I mean, I'm all for adding more female heroes.
I just don't like seeing already established and liked heroes having to take backseats as a result.

(Well specifically what bugged me was Female Thor getting male Thor's hammer, when they could give her a unique weapon. Which would both not come at the expense of male Thor, and help female Thor be more of a unique character and less of a simple gender swap).
 
(or reverse whitewash?)
I'm not exactly sure what it's really called. All I know is that 'washing' happens both ways. I literally pulled that term out of nowhere.
 
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