Disingenuous or just female?

[Jargo]

Hey Iwaku, I need some help over here. If you could serve some advice-tea, especially from experience, that'd be great.

So there's this girl I like… - doesn't every problem start like this, haha – and the thing is, I think she likes me as well. The problem is, she is kinda involved with a friend of mine. A friend who hasn't had many partners, so to speak. I knew the situation was quite awkward, so I just though I wouldn't be a third wheel and would just let them hit it off, knowing that eventually this liking that I've developed towards her will go away on its own. Generally speaking, she is a really cool person and that friend is not even very close to me (we only know each other from one year at university) so this is not really a dilemma "friendship or love", as you will see in the end.

Yeah…, I know my psychology and I wasn't wrong. However last week, we were playing this drinking game with a group of people from the university (she didn't take part, so she wasn't drunk) and, of course, I won… cuz you know – I'm Eastern European… So after the game everyone was pretty much asleep, dozing off or going home, apart from me and her. Awkward, but never fear, being the smooth drunk that I am, I just turned on my laptop to play some games, completely ignoring her (something that, in retrospect, I realize I've persistently done in recent times). I had lost track of time, but at some point I realized she was just staring at me for some time. Have you ever had this chilling sensation through all your body, when you know something bad will happen, where your limbs feel numb for some time? Yeah, I've just had it then.

She asked me why was I trying so hard to ignore her, which, now that I think about it was a valid question. Naturally, I tried to pretend I was engaged in the game (I was only looking at the screen at that point - not even seeing it, just pressing random buttons) and completely denied it. Then she just told me something along the lines of "Just how stupid do you think I am?" and proceeded to say she knew I liked her and ignored her in order not to intrude on her and my friend getting together. There wasn't really any point denying anything, I just turned towards her and asked her what she would have me do. She said she didn't know, but what I was doing was just pathetic and I should do something. That whole conversation was n Russian, which is a language both of us speak, because there were people around not actually asleep, but the fact we were saying these things in a room full of people was… weird?

So, I haven't spoken to her since then. My course of action would be the same as so far, because I believe it's disingenuous of her to pull this stuff out, while still welcoming the attention from my friend. To be honest, this has given me more of a reason to stay away from her rather than anything else – a decent person wouldn't be acting like that, in my opinion. I guess what I'm asking is, especially to any females reading this, do you think I'm overreacting? Do you, maybe, understand where she's coming from? Or you agree with my assessment.

Sankyuuu \O/

 

[Kestrel]

On the one hand, she probably doesn't want you to be disingenuous with her. On the other, she's mirroring the exact same trait by doing what you described. The irony is killing me.

People in general, like attention. They like feeling desired. I mean, if I have two girls trying to get with me at the same time, my ego would just love that. Or who knows she's trying to provoke you into taking steps because she likes you. I don't know, my guess is as good as yours.

Seriously though. As with most relationship advice, honest communication is key. Unfortunately, that might involve your friend. And you know... People. It's important for you to sit down with them both.

What I would do was to first go to the friend, be upfront about how you feel and talk that shit over. Then take the conclusion I get from that to the girl. A conclusion that can range from you two having talked it over and you not wanting to intrude, to you deciding you value a shot more than the friendship, to him being neutral to the prospect of you pursuing your feelings. Shit can be weird like that. In any case I'd mention the conversation. That said, I'm a confrontational bastard who values truth over comfort and easily clash with people whose sensitivities overtake their rationality. Something that does happen a lot in those types of conversations. If your priorities lie elsewhere, don't listen to me.

 

[Jorick]

Eh, kinda depends in just how "involved" she is with that friend. If it's just some casual dating then honestly this isn't a big thing. Maybe she's just more interested in you than the friend and wants you to make a move. It's not really disingenuous to pursue multiple people at once, it's just a way of doing things that you may not care for. Unless they've agreed that they are in an exclusive relationship she isn't doing anything wrong so far as her relationship with your friend is concerned.

That said, if you don't like that and disapprove of how she's doing things, don't pursue a damned thing with her if you don't feel like it. There's nothing wrong with you willingly not acting on attraction for whatever reason. Either go with Kestrel's suggestion of talking it out or just keep on doing what you've been doing. She can say it's pathetic all she likes, but your opinions/values > her desires in this matter.

 

[Esmeray]

Both kestrel and jorick make very good points. I would have some input myself, but you haven't really said if your friend and this girl are casually dating or if its a serious thing. We also don't know how long they've been dating. If you don't know yourself what exactly THEIR relationship is, then avoiding her was probably the smarter choice. But if she is insisting you do something and especially in such a sneaky and manipulative kind of way then I think you should do what kestrel said. Talking to the one who is ACTUALLY DATING HER, will probably put this entire thing in a whole new perspective for you. If the guy tells you he really likes her and they are more than just some eight month fling in his own eyes then you should definitely convenience him that this woman isn't the right choice for that, not because you want to date her but because she's trying to mess around behind his back. If they are casually dating and he doesn't care what you do, then have at it. You need to keep in mind though that during the time she is with you, she is also with someone else until she says otherwise. This also means she could be having casual sex with your friend, and with you to (if you are into that kind of thing?). However if this turns into a situation where you are fighting over her then you need to walk away because that's exactly what she wants, and Shes trying to achieve that by egging you on when she is calling you pathetic and all this other nonsense. That my friend, is a real piece of work personality wise, but maybe you're into manipulative shallow bitches?

Personally dude, you should stand up for yourself....she's fucking calling you pathetic. Why the hell do you even want to date someone who is trying to sneak around, and talk down to you like that? Right then and there you should have told her to fuck off. There are plenty of other girls that can be like her with out all the manipulative and sneaky shit she's trying to pull...she's just not worth it.

You also need to take into consideration what YOU want in a relationship. Your goals and values are key part in deciding if you should continue with this girl. If you like having serious relationships then I highly suggest not dating this woman simply because she comes off as a little untrustworthy. She's dating your friend, and regardless if its casual or not, she shouldn't be sneaking behind his back trying to get with other guys, namely you his "friend". What makes you think she isnt going to be any different with you? What if there are two other guys she's "interested in" that you and your friend don't even know about? That my friend is a player or a cheater in the works. HOWEVER if you are not looking for a serious relationship and just want to casually date then this woman might be a good choice, but don't come crying when the relationship ends in like eight months because she's moved on to what she thinks is the next best thing.

All in all, my advice is to first speak with your friend about whats going on, just what kestrel said. Then the girl. Theb you need to assess your own values and if they match with this girls personality and values then happy day. If they don't and you don't much care for her sneaky bullshit then you need to tell her you are not interested if she's going to act that way. She may get serious if you tell her that, if she refuses then tell her you are not interested in dating her anymore. I would go as far as to drop her from your life entirely but that choice is yours.

All I know is that if someone talked to ME like that, I would have dropped them right then and there from my life entirely. I don't need sneaky bitches telling me I'm pathetic for doing what i believe is the right thing. :)

 

[Kestrel]

Actually, on the pathetic thing, I think I can understand where that is coming from. A lot of girls think the guy should take the initiative and when Aleksander didn't, despite her suspecting his feelings for her, she grew frustrated. Especially so when he (who she expects to take the initiative) asks her what to do. Now of course this is hypocrisy, and yes we are living in 2015 so it's dumb this still exists, but it is a common mindset. We also don't know how she feels about the relationship between Aleksander's friend and herself. I mean, you could say it's immature or uncalled for, but I don't think we have enough information to judge whether it's actually sneaky or manipulative.

Also, unrelated word of wisdom, even if it's just casual sex it's best to communicate clearly with your partner(s) about your intentions. You can avoid so much fucking drama with it's not even funny. Sex commonly makes people feel emotionally attached in one way or another so when feelings get involved and you're not very clear about that, you're one stop away from misinterpretation city and two from drama central.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

I agree with Kestrel, there's too little information here for us to decide if this behaviour is sneaky, manipulative, completely called for etc.

Regardless though communication is almost always preferable to secrecy.
Discuss with your friend, your feelings, what she said etc.
And as mutual friends who respect each other find a logical and rational way to solve it so you won't be fighting one another over this.

+If you do choose to pursue make sure it's out of genuine desire and not because you got goaded into it.

 

[Jargo]

Yo!

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I see you all say we don't have enough information to judge – yeah, well that's the problem, isn't it :D If I had all the information, I wouldn't be posting here, would I? Nevertheless, I feel since all of you decided to give me some of your time I owe you some sort of explanation, plus I may get a useful perspective. So far I'm having the same train of thought as @Vio … well apart from getting all fired up over her calling me pathetic – for one, I don't think she really meant it, a tbh I'm pretty sure she used it to urge me to take some action. @Kestrel Suggested it may be provoked from me asking her what to do – let me clarify on that as well. I didn't pose the questions as in "What should I do, tell me, help me and I'll do it." rather I meant it like "What the actual hell do you imagine I should do in this situation? What do you expect/wish to happen?" and I am pretty sure she got the gist, she's pretty fluent in the language and my tone of voice was quite easy to grasp.

So… let me explain further:

My friend is not really that good friend of mine. Our friendship is mostly based on sharing some similar hobbies and interests, not really a much deeper emotional or otherwise bond. In other words, my relationship with him is not a really big priority for me. It may sound immoral, but that's the way I am. My concern stems not so much from my desire to safeguard this friendship, but instead from my concern over her behavior as a person and my unwillingness to back off and make reprisals in the way I am and act as a person, just for her. That being said, lets not forget there is a reason I like this girl and that reason is not looks alone. We share a great deal in terms of character traits and I generally (used to, before shit got weird) feel very, very well in her company, even without any romantic hints. I suppose you could say her and I would be better friends than the guy and I.

As for their relationship – I haven't got a clue what it is in its core. Personally, I would describe it as just casual dating and I'm pretty sure (as I said, we have similar characters with her, so I am able to make such assumptions with good accuracy) that she doesn't mean for it to develop into an actual serious relationship, especially so if she's doing that sort of stuff. On the topic of sex…. I can't know if they've had sex or not, nor do I really care that much, to be honest. I mean, I know that some people consider the act of coitus as some symbol of deeper connection, but in today's society it really doesn't mean all that much. Geez, I sound like someone having one night stands every Friday night, which is as far away from the truth as the horizon is from the flag pole, but you don't have to be very sexually active to have such a viewpoint.

That being said, I don't plan on having sex with her (not that she's offering, really) nor any other romantic involvement with her while she's in any sort of relationship with someone else. It can be seen as lack of courage from her perspective, I suppose, but I don't intend on shifting from my ways for her amusement and if she expects something else, than I'm better off w/o that relationship. I don't really know what she expects, though, so that's the main issue here :d

Now some info on my friend: I don't know him all that well (one year is not that much time) so I don't really know about his previous relationships, but he does seem like the guy who thinks every relationship he has is going to be "the one". From what I can see, he does intend for this thing they are having to turn serious and if they've had sex, my money is on him thinking it to be a very big deal/connecting factor etc. You all suggested I go talk to him about it – that is really, and I mean really, not an option here. He will firstly not believe me if I were to quote the conversation I've had with her, and even if I try to bring the topic otherwise, he'd get quite upset and aggressive, possibly even go talk to her about it, angrily, which she won't take and will stir up the whole situation even more, with me being the culprit hated by everyone – no thanks! How do I know this for sure you may ask? Well, I have seen him become quite touchy on the subject of their relationship, even amongst friends making jokes about it and knowing his personality, I can stipulate such outcome with great certainty. I may be selling this guy short here, though, please consider that she is involved with him, not me, for a reason. He is quite smart and interesting person in himself, not to mention paying great attention to his appearance (unlike me ;d), it's just his empathy and social skills that are a little bit lackluster, hence making for this situation.

Talking to her might be the better option – of the two she is surely the one who is physiologically more mature and balanced. However in this case I am not sure how to proceed, really. I mean, if I were to explain what I said above about me not willing to go out of my way in such a situation for her, she might just consider it lack of assertiveness on my part, which it ironically, would be quite the opposite. But if she sees it that way, she would just tell me to forget about it and be done with our relationship (friendship) whatsoever. That won't be the end of the world for me, as I mentioned already in my first post, I'm 100% okay with not having any romantic relationship with her whatsoever, however I am not really willing to jeopardize our friendship and overall communication, because she is one of the closer friends I have in my current surroundings. In all honesty, if there was a way to escape this situation with us just being friends I'd take it right away, but the way she's set things up, I don't really see this as a possibility. I've considered telling her I see her as just a friend, but she'd a bit too intelligent for this to fly, hence reducing her response to the outcome described at the start of this paragraph…

 

[Kestrel]

Talking to her might be the better option – of the two she is surely the one who is physiologically more mature and balanced. However in this case I am not sure how to proceed, really.

"Heya. I do like you, but I'm not cool starting something with you when you're still dating another guy." Make clear to her you're not intending to manipulate her decision, but if she wants to pursue a relationship she's going to have to respect your values.

I mean, that's the case, right?

Also try not to assume too much. Overanalysis is rarely good analysis. People surprise us.

 

[Esmeray]

To be frank I think you are being naive with this girl....if she was as mature and as balanced as you claim she wouldn't be sneaking around behind this guys back, especially if he is taking their relationship seriously. A mature girl who knows what she wants wouldn't be this manipulative. If she likes you that way and doesn't want a serious relationship then she needs to say so to the guy she is dating.

You should do exactly what kestrel said, make HER force her own hand. Make HER take the responsibility. Make it clear that if you are going to date her the other guy needs to be out of the picture, and that SHE'S the one that needs to do something. Not you.

Like I said before, I personally don't believe the girl is dating material mostly because she cones of as incredibly sketchy and manipulative, but maybe would be better off as a best friend.

So yeah, you just gotta go communicate bruh :P

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

If her motivation/mentality is in fact what we're theorizing here, that she wants to be with Aleksander then I would support Kestrel's advice completely given the new information.
Talk to her, make it clear that you are interested, but you have boundries and she needs to respect that. That should get across your assertiveness and let her know what needs to be done to have it work.

However, I'm thinking there's another possibility here that we missed.
It's possible that conversation wasn't meant to be anything along the lines of "Hey I like you, why don't you make a move?" but more just calling out something she noticed. Maybe her intention was more of a "Dude, I see what you're doing. Just relax, we're all friends here". Now I'm saying that strictly on the info given here, her tone and mannerisms could have easily shown that wasn't her intention.