Chinese Obedience Game: "Sesame Credit"

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Old Man Seiji, Dec 22, 2015.

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  1. Isn't that basically how it is already in the western world? Think or say the 'wrong thing' and you become ostracized. They're just putting a name on it.
  2. Yeah, maybe, but it certainly is not formally institutionalized. This is some Brave New World style stuff here - obedience through rewards. Insidious as it is... CCP certainly outdid themselves this time. Brilliant means of a hands-off approach to keeping society "right".

    Maybe they'll sell this like they sell their internet cages.
  3. Ehh not really. Being different is supported by people now days. Unless you are muslim, you almost always have people in your camp supporting you.
  4. Yep, this is garbage. Here's hoping the system blows up horribly in their faces to discourage others from trying this kind of fascist bullshit.
  5. It's China. If it blows up, they'll find a way to blame the population for not being good citizens.

    PREDICTIONS: If acknowledged, world governments will decry it as a travesty and an awful step towards the Orwellian Future that we seem to be headed towards more and more tellingly every day. However, it will also be something closely, closely monitored, because really: what government doesn't want a quieter, more easily-controlled population? The US certainly is moving towards it, with the sheer number of "security" bills that we've seen this year alone. Then of course, we just got CISA forced onto us...
  6. It doesn't feel Orwellian. It isn't "big brother is watching" it's"big brother is here to reward you for good behavior." The USA doesn't award people for behavior the NSA finds "acceptable", and unlike the NSA, you're totally aware of what Sesame Credit is and how it is impacting you. It creates a self-moderating population for the CCP.

    The bit about letting the patriots phase this program in... Well, again, CCP knows what it's doing in its fortress of solitude. I don't think western nations would be so open about a program, if they even felt they needed to institute it one. That's a number one way to not get reelected.
  7. Yeeeeeah, my Facebook and I had a breakup almost a decade ago. It'll probably be the next thing SOPA will pull on us, tbh.
  8. Yeah, if we used Facebook as a barometer of whether or not I was a good little sheep.


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  9. The one piece of good news I can think of is that counter-cultures spawn in the face of ostracizing policies. There are numerous political groups in the Western World that take pride in how little they care for the government, or in how they defy it in whatever capacity they can. I could imagine small communities popping up in darker corners of China that would be happy about having low Sesame scores. You can identify your friends against the government as easily as the government can identify you. :ferret:

    Also, Facebook already tracks your web habits to try and figure out how to market to you. It already crawls your phone for pictures it can tag, even if it hasn't been given access to them. In the western world I'd be more concerned with the corporate oligarchy over the government: Government's just manned by puppets. Who pulls the strings?
  10. I hadn't thought about that point, actually. It would be interesting to see how that would affect the grasp CCP depending on who uses that to their advantage. I know there's been the most 'deviance' in the rural ares, where some areas can hold legitimate elections for local leaders, but the majority of the potential for change rests in the middle class and I can't say I know enough about their demographic to say whether or not they'd use Sesame Credit to that end. The majority of the control rests in urban areas, so it could go either way.

    But, we'll see. The optimist in me would like to see China open up, but change is slow. They've gotten their economy sorted out, now comes the harder part.
  11. Hmmmm. I'm on the fence about this. Yes, I can see how this system culd be a terrible thing for a country, especialy if used to promote the self-destructive globalist multicultural/liberal/leftist agenda that most of the West in drowning in. I literaly shudder at the thoght. But the Chinese goverment is the exact oposite of globalist; they have their natonal pride and dignity, and they are decidedly isolationist and determined to preserve there cultural identity. This kind of self-policing society tool, is the ideal method of fighting the outside influence as wel as internal seditius elements, and insuring their national security, and the reward-based system wuld insure the citizenry actively suports it and defends their country vith the proper ideals.

    Now before some ppl jump on my throat for being "fascist" or vhat-ever, let me save you the troble. I am very nationalist and right-wing. I am a patriot, my country's national identity and cultural purity means the vorld to me, I wuld fight, die and kill for it, and I belive a degree of isolation is a good thing for a country. I am VERY anti-globalist, I see the agenda behind it (NWO), and I wuld like to see the vorld revert to a segregated colection of nation-states, vith defined borders, all of them vith strong self-identity and culture. I want to see immigration bringed to a minimum, and I vant to see strict cultural and racial separation. Thus, I wuld love to see a system like this implemented in my country, to bring the liberal elements in line, and keep them in check, but only if (and I cant over-emphasize this enogh), it is run by a nationalistic, right-wing goverment, vhich I hope is soon to be formed, vhen this whole after-election madness here is solved. In any other case, it wuld be a disaster. ESPECIALY if implemented by a liberal goverment. That literaly wuld be a horror. Total loss of national pride, cultural identity, total absorption in-to the globalist melting pot of doom. So like I sayed. This system culd be a salvation - IF the goverment behind it is nationalist and right-wing. Or it culd be damnation - IF the goverment is globalist and liberal. My opinion.

    Some commentators above seem to think that this system culd lead to the kind of vorld seen in Orvell's "1984". But I disagree. If every country had there own nationalistic version of this system, emphasizing their own national identity, cultural values, and patriotism, the vorld culd never be "globalized" under a single monopolistic goverment. No over-accumulation of power wuld be possible, it wuld break the hold the corporations have on goverments, among many other beneficial things. In short, it wuld partition the vorld away from being a big "global village" and in-to what it vas always ment to be - a scattered, large, sometimes-conflicting but always-culturaly-healthy colection of diverse nations and cultures.
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    ... ? They're one of the most globally dependent economies in the world. The reason they hate declaring wars and invading people is because whenever tariffs are enacted, they suffer. Their primary method of economic survival is by ensuring more globalization rather than less. :ferret:

    Besides that? I don't entirely disagree with you. Free trade only benefits those big enough to use it properly. It's only benefiting the mega corps who are becoming bigger than governments. I'm not entirely against globalization though. The efforts by the EU to make fusion power a thing could benefit pretty much literally everyone. Still, that's far off topic. Just figured I'd note that China is actually perhaps one of the least isolationist countries on Earth, and if they tried to go isolationist, their 11,000-ish per person GDP would be far too insufficient to survive on. They are, however, highly authoritarian. Might be mixing those two terms up there.


    Citin' muh source. Should do that more often.
  13. Just curious... who funds that "source" of yours, and which country is it based in? Even if I can probably guess the ansver...
  14. Alexander Simone, under a Creative Commons licence. IE: No big brother state or big corporate involved. Just a guy who compiled numbers into pretty charts.
  15. The abhorrent problems with this sort of system have nothing to do with the specifics of the politics involved, in my opinion. I'd hate this system coming from liberals, conservatives, or moderates, no matter how well their politics align with mine, no matter how good their motives, because at its core it is a disgustingly clever mechanism of enacting the worst elements of fascism: the harsh control in which subjects are not allowed to dissent lest they be ruined for it in one way or another. Doesn't matter if it's coming from left, right, or center, that shit is fucked up and nobody should approve of it.

    It might look okay at first, but you've got to recognize it for what it is: a social engineering tool intended to subtly force obedience to the will of the state. They're starting with the rewards side of things to get the people who already fall in line with their wishes on board with the program and to entice the rest with the possibilities. The years where it's opt-in only and rewards only will get people acclimated to the system being a part of daily life and most of them will likely view it as a positive thing. Then the mandatory use will come into play, and they've already hinted at possibilities for consequences for negative scores, which could be anywhere from minor inconveniences like being put in a low priority track for passport applications to truly ruinous bullshit like being unable to work any decent jobs because employers refuse to hire low scoring people. However, the real insidious part of it is that the negative consequences of bad scores don't really matter that much, so long as they exist and the rewards for good scores are things people want. This is because of the part of the system where the scores of people you associate with will affect your own score, not to mention the fact that you can look anyone up and see what their score is. This will mean that so long as most people are motivated to strive for a higher score they are very likely to shame low scorers into conforming or ostracizing them entirely.

    I would hope anyone can see how awful it is for any group to try to force everyone to conform to a singular set of morals and values while punishing those who step out of line. National identity is cool and all, but punishing people for not marching in lockstep with it is fucked up. People being allowed to dissent without government reprisal is a key part of both freedom of speech/expression and having a functioning representative government that actually works for the benefit of its people in the first place, and those are things we should all value for a multitude of reasons.
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  16. Looks independent... on the surface. But who knovs what really hides behind that nice litle website. I've learned to take all sources vith a lot of reserve.
  17. Can verify that Alexander Simone has a history of doing open source projects and compiling numbers from a variety of sources. (Both independent and government, and he's typically open about where he got them as well.) He's a truth seeker, not a propagandist, and has no particular nationalist affiliations or tendencies. He just tries to create tools that people can use to better understand the world visually. Still, healthy skepticism is always a good thing.
  18. I supose it comes down to the level of patriotism a person has. I wuld have no problem vith living in a partialy-represive system, if it propagates my country's national and cultural values, especialy since I am, as I sayed, a nationalist. And not to mince words, I dont like seeing anti-national (globalistic included) sentiments in my felow countrymen. I want to see that element of society controled and regulated, and sanctioned if necesary. Too much "freedom" can be a bad thing for the society as a vhole. It opens the path to external influence, posibly destructive, at the very least dissentive, at vorst - anarchistic. And all that weakens a country and its ability to defend it-self and its cultural values. So one needs to accept a compromise betwen freedom of expresion, and one's country's best interest, IMO. And the latter ALVAYS has to come first, for me.

    And if I'm anything, I'm a natural skeptic and cynic. Vith how the world is now, I realy dont have alot of reason to be anything else. :P
  19. And soon China will beat WoW as the most heavily populated MMO.
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