Mafia 2.0: Day Thread Game #7

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RULES & ROLES

Overall Policies

Do not discuss the game with other players outside of the in-game PMs and day phase thread, at all. You are free to discuss it with people who are not playing.
Do not edit or delete posts. No, not even to correct typos or to remove double posts. While I know that this is frustrating, it is too easy to cheat otherwise. If the current "hall monitor" (@Shizuochan) or I catch you editing or deleting posts, we will revert your edit or undelete your post.
Do not talk in night chats during the day phase, and vice versa. This should be fairly self-explanatory.

Inactivity

Inactive means no activity in the day thread or responding to night action reminders.
If you are inactive for 1 full cycle, you will receive a warning.
If you are inactive for 2 full cycles, you will be roleblocked.
If you are inactive for 3 full cycles, you will be killed. I will state at the beginning of the discussion phase that you were removed for inactivity. If you have a power role and there are any vanilla team members alive and active, one of them will randomly receive your role.

The game will start with me using a RNG to assign roles to players. I will then PM each player to let them know what their role is and ask them for their first night action if they have one. Once you receive this PM, the game has officially begun.

The game consists of three phases: the night phase, the discussion phase, and the voting phase. The discussion and voting phase are referred to collectively as the day phase. The night phase will take place solely in PMs, while the discussion and voting phases will take place on a public thread. Each phase will be 72 hours long, starting and ending at 5:00 PM MDT. A maximum of two single-day extensions each may be requested for the discussion and voting phases. The discussion phase will also end early if requested. I may also extend or end the day phase if I believe discussion is still active or has ended, respectively. You are still allowed to discuss during the voting phase.

At the start of the night phase, I will PM each person with a night role asking how/if they would like to use their night action. Once the night phase ends, the night actions will resolve and I'll enact any results. For example if person X is killed, then at the end of the night I will inform X that they have been killed, and add/remove them from any PM chats as necessary. Most PMs are between the player and myself only, however some players have the ability to communicate with others at night: if this is the case, it will be stated in their role description.

Next comes the discussion phase. Every discussion phase will begin with me announcing who (if anyone) died the previous night, that it is now the discussion phase, and when the discussion phase will end. In the discussion phase everyone is able to talk about who they think is what role, who they want to lynch, and whatever else may be relevant to the game. I may jump in with rule clarifications if I believe someone is confused about the rules. At the end of the discussion phase, I will announce that the discussion phase is over and that it is now the voting phase, along with when the voting phase will end.

In the voting phase everyone may vote on who they want to lynch. In order to vote you must publicly announce in the day phase thread that you are voting to lynch X player. People are allowed to cancel or change their vote, but keep in mind that you are not allowed to edit or delete posts. If someone is voted on by the majority of players (majority = (Total Living Players/2)+1, rounded down when total players is odd) before the end of the voting phase, then that player will be lynched. I will post announcing that X player has been lynched, state their faction (town, mafia, or neutral), and add or remove people from PMs as necessary. If nobody receives a majority of the vote before the end of the voting phase, I will announce that nobody has been lynched. When either somebody has been lynched or the voting phase ends, I will announce that the voting phase has ended and the night phase has begun. I will also state when the night phase will end.

Any questions people have during the game can be asked in this thread, in the day phase thread if it is currently the day phase, or via PM. I would prefer that you ask any role-related questions via PM to prevent cheating, though this is not strictly necessary.

The game ends once either all the town or all the mafia are dead. Once this happens, the game will end and I will announce the results in the discussion and voting phase thread. The results consist of who won and a complete role list. After the game is over, the discussion and voting phase thread will be archived, and players may discuss their thoughts on the game in this main thread. We will generally start planning the next game and pick the next GM and "hall monitor" at this time.

Mayor: The mayor may reveal themselves anytime during the day phase. After they are revealed, their vote counts as 3 votes.
Detective: The detective may visit one person every night. They learn the faction--town, mafia, or neutral--of the person they visit.
Doctor: The doctor may protect one person from being killed every night. They have two self-heals.
Medium: The medium can communicate with the dead. They will be part of the dead chat. While they can always see the dead chat, they are only allowed to talk to the dead at night. After they die, they will be able to send one message. They may choose who to send this message to at any time. The message will be sent at night.
Lookout: The lookout may visit one person each night. They will see who visits that person. The Lookout has a night chat with the Tracker.
Tracker: The tracker may visit one person each night and see who that person visits. The Tracker has a night chat with the Lookout.
3 normal townies

Mafia and Neutral
2 Mafiosos: The mafia vote on who to kill each night. They may decide who visits the target. If they do not choose, one of them will be randomly picked.
Consort: Mafia-aligned. The consort may visit one person each night. The person they visit can not use their night ability and will be told that they were blocked. If there are no other mafia alive, the Consort becomes a Mafioso.
Executioner: Neutral. The executioner gets a randomized town-aligned target at the beginning of the game. Their goal is to make sure that person is lynched. If their target dies at night, they become a Jester. The Jester's goal is to be lynched. Both the Jester and the Executioner are immune to night kills.
Survivor: Neutral. The survivor's goal is to survive throughout the game. They get three self-heals that they can use at night.
 
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I'm too tired to really dig into this right now, but I will say that I think @IntrusivePenDesperateSword and @The_J both have flawed arguments. On Pen's side, he's unfamiliar with some of the more confusing yet common mafia strategies, while J is disregarding some important points (for example, the part where Pen and I both voted for Neo. Any votes are highly valuable, and I at the very least could have claimed I was busy with my trip and missed the vote, while Pen wanted to vote for J initially because of the counterclaim and had to be convinced to cast the deciding vote. We also have not been counterclaimed, and imo, tracker and lookout are a bit harder to fake claim than the other roles.)

Honestly, @The_J, I'm getting kind of curious about your role, but I've already got a solid suspect in @Anguissette. Unless popular town opinion is toward you when voting time comes around, I'll be voting for her.

I'm curious what the rest of the town thinks about this as well, so I'll wait to see what they have to say.
 
Especially considering my vote was the deciding one.
I'm too tired to really dig into this right now, but I will say that I think @IntrusivePenDesperateSword and @The_J both have flawed arguments. On Pen's side, he's unfamiliar with some of the more confusing yet common mafia strategies, while J is disregarding some important points (for example, the part where Pen and I both voted for Neo. Any votes are highly valuable, and I at the very least could have claimed I was busy with my trip and missed the vote, while Pen wanted to vote for J initially because of the counterclaim and had to be convinced to cast the deciding vote. We also have not been counterclaimed, and imo, tracker and lookout are a bit harder to fake claim than the other roles.)

Honestly, @The_J, I'm getting kind of curious about your role, but I've already got a solid suspect in @Anguissette. Unless popular town opinion is toward you when voting time comes around, I'll be voting for her.
It was looking pretty damn certain that Neo was going to die, and they were useless to the mafia once the town decided to turn against them. Even if neither Eru nor Pen had voted, two more people were likely to have stepped up to vote for them.
Besides all of that, it's evidently just a ploy to look more an more innocent to us townies (well, everyone but me, since I know for certain). It's a classic mafia play. Sacrifice a mafia member who's worth more to you dead than alive:

Step 1, have a mafia member who the town have found out pretty certainly to be a baddie.
Step 2, vote along with everyone else to lynch them.
Step 3, when accused by someone who knows better, play up the fact you voted for your teammate.

It's a solid tactic that I myself would use, were I a mafia member, however, I know it when I see it.
 
It was looking pretty damn certain that Neo was going to die, and they were useless to the mafia once the town decided to turn against them. Even if neither Eru nor Pen had voted, two more people were likely to have stepped up to vote for them.
Besides all of that, it's evidently just a ploy to look more an more innocent to us townies (well, everyone but me, since I know for certain). It's a classic mafia play. Sacrifice a mafia member who's worth more to you dead than alive:

Step 1, have a mafia member who the town have found out pretty certainly to be a baddie.
Step 2, vote along with everyone else to lynch them.
Step 3, when accused by someone who knows better, play up the fact you voted for your teammate.

It's a solid tactic that I myself would use, were I a mafia member, however, I know it when I see it.
I dunno about you, but sacrificing a fellow maf for legitimacy seems like the most obvious thing to do if said maf is getting voted for. Likewise is it fairly obvious you should do it if you aren't maf. Hey, nearly everyone else voted for Neo too, are they secretly maf?

I do have to applaud your subtle wording to frame me as the bad guy, though. "someone who knows better", and you "know[ing] for certain"? Classy. Transparent, but effective.
 
It was looking pretty damn certain that Neo was going to die, and they were useless to the mafia once the town decided to turn against them. Even if neither Eru nor Pen had voted, two more people were likely to have stepped up to vote for them.
Besides all of that, it's evidently just a ploy to look more an more innocent to us townies (well, everyone but me, since I know for certain). It's a classic mafia play. Sacrifice a mafia member who's worth more to you dead than alive:

Step 1, have a mafia member who the town have found out pretty certainly to be a baddie.
Step 2, vote along with everyone else to lynch them.
Step 3, when accused by someone who knows better, play up the fact you voted for your teammate.

It's a solid tactic that I myself would use, were I a mafia member, however, I know it when I see it.
You know what, that's definitely fair. However, you've disregarded the rest of my post, and are just focusing on the vote. What about the fact that we haven't been counterclaimed, and as a team with a shared chat, it's trickier to counterclaim us?

I do have to applaud your subtle wording to frame me as the bad guy, though. "someone who knows better", and you "know[ing] for certain"? Classy. Transparent, but effective.
He's played a lot of these kinds of games :P
 
I dunno about you, but sacrificing a fellow maf for legitimacy seems like the most obvious thing to do if said maf is getting voted for. Likewise is it fairly obvious you should do it if you aren't maf. Hey, nearly everyone else voted for Neo too, are they secretly maf?
You asked for a reasonable explanation, I gave you one. At this point, it's getting to be a wine-in-front-of-me, and I think you're trying to use that to raise frivolous issues like this. Maybe the maf thinks everyone will think that the maf thinks that everyone thinks that the maf will think that everyone thinks that the maf will vote for their own player or one of the infinite permutations of that.

I do have to applaud your subtle wording to frame me as the bad guy, though. "someone who knows better", and you "know[ing] for certain"? Classy. Transparent, but effective.
Thanks? Honestly, it's not intentional. I mean, I do know for certain that I was roleblocked (unless Star LIED to me!). Star jk I love you

You know what, that's definitely fair. However, you've disregarded the rest of my post, and are just focusing on the vote. What about the fact that we haven't been counterclaimed, and as a team with a shared chat, it's trickier to counterclaim us?
My bad, I missed that.
The town seems to be currently more with the two of you than me, which is a shame. Whatever the case, it means that anyone who counterclaims you is at serious risk of getting ganked by the town, losing a highly valuable role, when we're not exactly at low risk.
It's not me who's staying in hiding, so I can't pretend to know their real motivation
 
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You asked for a reasonable explanation, I gave you one. At this point, it's getting to be a wine-in-front-of-me, and I think you're trying to use that to raise frivolous issues like this. Maybe the maf thinks everyone will think that the maf thinks that everyone thinks that the maf will think that everyone thinks that the maf will vote for their own player or one of the infinite permutations of that.
Thanks, needing to google that introduced me to the Mafia Wiki.

Well, who's at fault in a WIFOM? Party A or B? Or whatever chain of cause-effect that set up the scenario? What I'm saying, is that anyone could claim innocent because they voted Neo. I really oughtn't be an exception.

Not to mention, LuckycoolHawk brought this up to begin with. Not I nor Joan.

Thanks? Honestly, it's not intentional. I mean, I do know for certain that I was roleblocked (unless Star LIED to me!). Star jk I love you
See, therein lies the problem. I know for certain that I was roleblocked.

What exactly did Star tell you? Let's compare our messages, and cross-reference with other people who've been roleblocked. Unless this is too "taking the words out of god's mouth". Is this allowed? This seems not allowed.
 
What exactly did Star tell you? Let's compare our messages, and cross-reference with other people who've been roleblocked. Unless this is too "taking the words out of god's mouth". Is this allowed? This seems not allowed.
I'd say doing this is fine, since claims about messages you've supposedly received from me can't really be proved or disproved in any way.

Thanks? Honestly, it's not intentional. I mean, I do know for certain that I was roleblocked (unless Star LIED to me!). Star jk I love you
Awwwww. How sweet :D
 
Thanks, needing to google that introduced me to the Mafia Wiki.

Well, who's at fault in a WIFOM? Party A or B? Or whatever chain of cause-effect that set up the scenario? What I'm saying, is that anyone could claim innocent because they voted Neo. I really oughtn't be an exception.

Not to mention, LuckycoolHawk brought this up to begin with. Not I nor Joan.
My point is that it's an explanation, not proof. Very different things, which WIFOM applies differently to. My bad for not properly quoting Lucky, not sure how I got that mixed up.

See, therein lies the problem. I know for certain that I was roleblocked.

What exactly did Star tell you? Let's compare our messages, and cross-reference with other people who've been roleblocked.
See, this is where it gets sticky. I post my roleblocked message first, then you get a free pass because you can just copy my message. You post your roleblocked message first, then I get a free pass because I can just copy your message.
Even with Star's permission, this is kinda stuck in a rut. Trust me when I say I wish I could post my message and just clear my name to everyone.
 
See, this is where it gets sticky. I post my roleblocked message first, then you get a free pass because you can just copy my message. You post your roleblocked message first, then I get a free pass because I can just copy your message.
Even with Star's permission, this is kinda stuck in a rut. Trust me when I say I wish I could post my message and just clear my name to everyone.
See, I've thought about this. With god's Star's permission, we'll send Star the messages we got from them in separate PMs, then they'll post them in a message. I suppose this is kinda bending the rules maybe? I'm willing to go with it if you are, though.
 
See, I've thought about this. With god's Star's permission, we'll send Star the messages we got from them in separate PMs, then they'll post them in a message. I suppose this is kinda bending the rules maybe? I'm willing to go with it if you are, though.
I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to do that, unfortunately :( This is something you guys will have to work out without any help from me.
 
Ah, alright. That does make it somewhat harder, yes. Besides, either of us might've been roleblocked in an earlier game, and would just use that message. Seems this plan's a lost cause.

Now, The_J, do you want to sit here and parry arguments forever, or do you want to stop being suspiciously overprotective of Anguisette, whom we have a solid lead against? Please do compare the solidity of the lead, versus our trustworthiness as tr/lo.
 
Ah, alright. That does make it somewhat harder, yes. Besides, either of us might've been roleblocked in an earlier game, and would just use that message. Seems this plan's a lost cause.

Now, The_J, do you want to sit here and parry arguments forever, or do you want to stop being suspiciously overprotective of Anguisette, whom we have a solid lead against? Please do compare the solidity of the lead, versus our trustworthiness as tr/lo.
I haven't really been protecting Anguissette. In fact, I don't think I've even mentioned them. Please don't say I've done things I haven't.
Admittedly, since I have not mentioned anything about her, that might be suspicious, however, it's purely because I've been very focused on myself, you and Joan, since I'm having to defend myself from many fronts whilst trying to convince everyone else about the two of you. I will, however, have a look through the arguments now and post my thoughts.

Up until today I've been inclined to trust Joan and Elle - and on their sayso, Pen - but with Elle being murdered last night and Joan attempting to point the finger at me I'd say our mafia have finally overplayed their hand.
I'm inclined to believe this. Since I know that Pen and Joan are mafs, anyone they choose to accuse is pretty likely to be a goodie or at the very least an unlucky survivor.
Also, claiming that you've been working with Elle after her death just seems fishy to me.
It's not fishy, it's just lacking evidence. It's a shame we can't confirm it, but you can't seriously say this looks anything but neutral.

Happy, mafia?
 
Even if neither Eru nor Pen had voted, two more people were likely to have stepped up to vote for them.
Not necessarily. Both of the other options to vote neo up were inactive at the time. The two were @Anguissette and @7.39

7.39 said:
Nah, I'm still playing it's just school and work has been exhausting me so I only have enough energy to read and pass out. _:(´ཀ`」 ∠): And since no one really screams danger to me right now I just don't have motivation to vote. Esp with how dodgy Dipper warned Elle and all. Just doesn't seem convincing to me. Sorry for making you feel I was inactive though, I'll try and contribute more!
And angui said:
Barring an unavoidable few days offline recently (which meant I missed the change to lynch Dipper's hot tip)

Without your vote change, we would have needed one of them. Both claim to have things going on preventing them from voting.


I'm inclined to believe this. Since I know that Pen and Joan are mafs, anyone they choose to accuse is pretty likely to be a goodie or at the very least an unlucky survivor.
How do you know? I don't recall you saying anything to back up your "I know for certain"


@CloudyBlueDay
Yo. Can I ask for your thoughts? You have said practically nothing all game.
 
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Not necessarily. Both of the other options to vote neo up were inactive at the time. The two were @Anguissette and @7.39

7.39 said:
And angui said:
Without your vote change, we would have needed one of them. Both claim to have things going on preventing them from voting.
You raise a good point, however, there are two explanations for it. The first of which I have already mentioned (admittedly it wasn't clear, so I'll retread it).
1) Neo was worth more to the maf, Joan and Pen, dead than alive. His lynch was going to be inevitable, just not that night. We townies knew his true nature, and would never trust anything he said. He could be kept alive as cannon fodder to give the maf an extra "life point", but they made a value judgement and decided that they would be better off allaying suspicion by voting for them.

2) To err is to be human. They might have thought Neo was certain to die, and as such decided just to go along with it, thinking that they were sacrificing nothing and getting something out of it.
How do you know? I don't recall you saying anything to back up your "I know for certain"
That's meant as just an explanation for my actions, rather than actual evidence to be scrutinised. I don't expect anyone else to take that as gospel, that'd be crazy.
 
I haven't really been protecting Anguissette. In fact, I don't think I've even mentioned them. Please don't say I've done things I haven't.
My oh my, look at me go, making mistakes. I could've sworn you mentioned us trying to frame Anguisette because why would we be tracker/lookout, but that was my memory failing me. Apologies.

It's not fishy, it's just lacking evidence. It's a shame we can't confirm it, but you can't seriously say this looks anything but neutral.
Only coming out about it after her death? Saying minimally else? Claiming working with someone else, when unofficial conversations about the game are discouraged, if not illegal? Sounds pretty fishy suspishy to me.
 
Maybe the maf thinks everyone will think that the maf thinks that everyone thinks that the maf will think that everyone thinks that the maf will vote for their own player or one of the infinite permutations of that.

I can't make heads or tails of this.

I'm inclined to believe this. Since I know that Pen and Joan are mafs, anyone they choose to accuse is pretty likely to be a goodie or at the very least an unlucky survivor.

1) Neo was worth more to the maf, Joan and Pen, dead than alive. His lynch was going to be inevitable, just not that night. We townies knew his true nature, and would never trust anything he said. He could be kept alive as cannon fodder to give the maf an extra "life point", but they made a value judgement and decided that they would be better off allaying suspicion by voting for them.

Both of these are valid points, but I like to counteract with one of the most powerful observations from other games. The mafia could be using this discourse to murder and put distrust in others. It was @Kiilgore's strategy way back in game 2 where I accused Dipper, a jester and my death made the town for them. So, any of the accused are found dead, well, it strengthens the deceased claims to them. Especially now that the medium is dead, we have exactly ONE communication with the land of the dead so it's very easy for the mafia to use the discourse to further the agenda. Right now, we only have one tip and it's the "claim" of the lookout/tracker, so if they are right, then it furthers their claim of their roles. If they kill a townie, well, then we know it's suspicious. It's a gambit, but if we don't vote for someone, then mafia can kill Pen or J and do a damn good frame-up.
 
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Only coming out about it after her death? Saying minimally else? Claiming working with someone else, when unofficial conversations about the game are discouraged, if not illegal? Sounds pretty fishy suspishy to me.
I just remembered that rule about PMs. I learnt werewolf (our flavour of mafia) in a place that allowed PMs as long as the GM was present within them, so I kinda read that without thinking about it. Still, it sounds like the sort of thing you say by mistake, so perhaps @Anguissette wants to chip in?

I can't make heads or tails of this.
Sorry, poor attempt at a joke. Wine-in-front-of-me refers to a situation where you keep wondering if someone is doing a bluff, a double bluff, a triple bluff, a quadruple bluff, etc ad infinitum. I recommend googling it if you don't understand still since it's a really handy shorthand for this type of situation.
Both of these are valid points, but I like to counteract with one of the most powerful observations from other games. The mafia could be using this discourse to murder and put distrust in others. It was @Kiilgore's strategy way back in game 2 where I accused Dipper, a jester and my death made the town for them. So, any of the accused are found dead, well, it strengthens the deceased claims to them. Especially now that the medium is dead, we have exactly ONE communication with the land of the dead so it's very easy for the mafia to use the discourse to further the agenda. Right now, we only have one tip and it's the "claim" of the lookout/tracker, so if they are right, then it furthers their claim of their roles. If they kill a townie, well, then we know it's suspicious. It's a gambit, but if we don't vote for someone, then mafia can kill Pen or J and do a damn good frame-up.
Sorry mate but I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Are you saying we should trust them until they lynch a townie? Because that's how you lose a townie. I like keeping townies like myself alive, personally, and mafs like Pen and Eru dead.
 
and mafs like Pen and Eru dead.
Damn it Joan your avatar is basically the same as Eru's this is all your fault.
 
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Both of these are valid points, but I like to counteract with one of the most powerful observations from other games. The mafia could be using this discourse to murder and put distrust in others. It was @Kiilgore's strategy way back in game 2 where I accused Dipper, a jester and my death made the town for them. So, any of the accused are found dead, well, it strengthens the deceased claims to them. Especially now that the medium is dead, we have exactly ONE communication with the land of the dead so it's very easy for the mafia to use the discourse to further the agenda. Right now, we only have one tip and it's the "claim" of the lookout/tracker, so if they are right, then it furthers their claim of their roles. If they kill a townie, well, then we know it's suspicious. It's a gambit, but if we don't vote for someone, then mafia can kill Pen or J and do a damn good frame-up.
It's if the accuser dies, it strengthens their claims. Or am I misreading what you meant?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
.... really? That's all you say? Do you have anyone that you are suspicious of?

I just remembered that rule about PMs. I learnt werewolf (our flavour of mafia) in a place that allowed PMs as long as the GM was present within them, so I kinda read that without thinking about it. Still, it sounds like the sort of thing you say by mistake, so perhaps @Anguissette wants to chip in?

In this case, this would be a no I think.
Do not discuss the game with other players outside of the in-game PMs and day phase thread, at all.

and since Elle is the Medium, all other forms of contact outside of this thread (or Elle contacting her) would be in violation of that I think. But I guess ultimately what matters is Starligher's judgement on it in the end.)

Sorry mate but I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Are you saying we should trust them until they lynch a townie? Because that's how you lose a townie. I like keeping townies like myself alive, personally, and mafs like Pen and Eru dead.
Or until we get any other sort of better indication I'd think.
 
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