Gender Selection in preferences

[Elle Joyner]

See, y'all motherfuckers are worrying about military AI going rogue but what scares me is the pornbots gaining sentience and trying to sex us all to death.

Scares you.

Suuuuuuuuure.... >_>

 

[Astaroth]

I'd also like to add that we understand and hear those of you who are saying you don't like the change. No one is trying to shut down disagreements, and I personally welcome dissenting opinions. If you feel we have overlooked something important, don't hesitate to add your two cents. But we are going to weigh arguments, and our decisions will be determined by how we see the scales fall. Personal safety measures are always going to have a lot of weight in comparison to other considerations.

 

[Dusk]

Here is a view outside my window here in Weirdworld:

It's a beautiful view, no doubt. But I was trying to find you, will we never be able to wreck havoc together? Teleportation isn't my game!

Also, it has got to be cooler where you are than here.

I'd also like to add that we understand and hear those of you who are saying you don't like the change.

I like change, without it we couldn't really go anywhere. Obviously each change has its own merits and drawbacks, but I'd rather take a chance with something that could be beneficial and if it's not... Well, remember combined IC/OOC roleplays? At first I was basically indifferent about this change, however, reading about the security aspect tips it more to the positive side for me.

I'm just pleased to be on a website where the admins actually care and do stuff. Thanks guys!

 

[Shiri]

Er, where is it? I'm blind. I can't find the ice cream! Send help! HALP! I'M STARVING!!!

 

[Elle Joyner]

Er, where is it? I'm blind. I can't find the ice cream! Send help! HALP! I'M STARVING!!!

Admins removed it, cause people were getting confused/frustrated/it was making me hungry... (this last one is not the truth)

 

[Greenie]

Er, where is it? I'm blind. I can't find the ice cream! Send help! HALP! I'M STARVING!!!

*offers soggy cornflakes instead*

 

[Kitti]

Though on the plus side for those to whom it is important: we didn't bother to get rid of the occupation field and if you feel like you would be more comfortable having something like

Occupation: Being Genderqueer (she/her)

or whatever there, that's certainly an option too. I just chose something I'd seen as an example for text, feel free to be creative, idk.

 

[Joan]

But no one is paying attention to what's really important here...

I STILL want ice cream, Gdangit.

Just...pretend the cookie rating is ice cream instead XD

 

[Ananfal]

Welp, I've been convinced. The change was a good thing! (Which was my first thought as well before people started debating...)

And now I want ice cream. Dang it.

 

[Daz]

No one has ever died from the following:

Having to correct someone about their own gender.

I must also say: If your social anxiety is SO BAD that you can't handle a simple human question, that is something YOU need to work on. Being forced to now ask people to know the answer is GOOD for you; whether you have to be the one to ask, or the one to answer. I am telling you this as a fellow person with severe social anxiety who just yesterday had a near panic attack because I was forced to talk to a stranger on the phone. @___@ For about ten minutes I thought I was going to die, but I HAD to do it.

Just wanted to say, so much yes to both these things.

It's funny because people sometimes act like they've stabbed me or something after I've had to correct them about my gender. I mean, I'm already dead inside, so you can't kill me! Seriously though, it's really a lot less of a deal than some people make out. Being misgendered sucks, but that's life. It's not up to other people to take massive precautions to avoid accidentally causing me discomfort stemming from my own dysphoria.

As someone who has also dealt/deals with social anxiety, you're very right about it being something you need to work on. You only get better when you push yourself to talk to people, even if it means you walk away from a conversation needing to change your shirt because you were sweating in fear so much. Which has never happened to me. Ever. Nup.

Also, I see people suggesting a type in box... I think that'd actually harm the trans and nb people around here. It's a feature some people would use to mock trans/nb people: guarantee we'd see a sudden rise in the apache helicopter population. That really sucks, but I think that's realistically what would happen.

 

[Galaxi]

Niceee, as someone who enjoys rp'ing characters of any gender I like this. I dont see how my real life gender will affect the rp in anyway since it's all about the characters and writing skills.

 

[Sidhe]

Also, I see people suggesting a type in box... I think that'd actually harm the trans and nb people around here. It's a feature some people would use to mock trans/nb people: guarantee we'd see a sudden rise in the apache helicopter population. That really sucks, but I think that's realistically what would happen.

Yes, this could happen, but it really has no bearing. The likelihood of someone else seeing that is small, and if people want to take the piss, whatever. They exist anyway, I'd see them in other places. I will see them in other places. That wouldn't change the fact that we would have the ability to let other people know freely our gender and pronouns without making a big to-do about it.

People will be assholes regardless. You learn to take the petty assholes with a grain of salt.

But this is all irrelevant 'cos it ain't gonna happen anyway, lol.

 

[Vars]

I'd also like to add that we understand and hear those of you who are saying you don't like the change. No one is trying to shut down disagreements, and I personally welcome dissenting opinions. If you feel we have overlooked something important, don't hesitate to add your two cents. But we are going to weigh arguments, and our decisions will be determined by how we see the scales fall. Personal safety measures are always going to have a lot of weight in comparison to other considerations.

My main issue is that the about me section is at a weird place in the profile. Both to view and fill out. Idk if it'd defeat the purpose of removing gender to make the about section more convenient to see /use? Even just a big linebreak would help.
Also thanks for removing the ice cream thing. Any chance you can remove the ice/water/etc clans too? The resume is pretty cluttered and removing unnecessary things would help.

 

[Jorick]

My main issue is that the about me section is at a weird place in the profile. Both to view and fill out. Idk if it'd defeat the purposeof rremoving gender to make the about section more convenient to see /use? Even just a big linebreak would help.
Also thanks for removing the ice cream thing. Any chance you can remove the ice/water/etc clans too? The resume is pretty cluttered and removing unnecessary things would help.

The element clan thing can't be removed, unfortunately. It's one of the profile things that are hard-coded into the forum software and can't be removed. It was actually the original gender selection thing that came with the default profile stuff for XenForo, and it was altered to just a silly thing in favor of having a more flexible gender selection. All we can do is change what the options are and what the thing is called, but we can't make it go away entirely, as much as we would like to be able to do it. :P

 

[Daz]

Yes, this could happen, but it really has no bearing. The likelihood of someone else seeing that is small, and if people want to take the piss, whatever. They exist anyway, I'd see them in other places. I will see them in other places. That wouldn't change the fact that we would have the ability to let other people know freely our gender and pronouns without making a big to-do about it.

People will be assholes regardless. You learn to take the petty assholes with a grain of salt.

But this is all irrelevant 'cos it ain't gonna happen anyway, lol.

True, people will be assholes regardless. I still feel if you're going to add a new feature you'll want it to have more positive use than abuse, and that a type-in feature for gender would tempt more abuse than positive use. But you are very right that the people who would misuse it are going to be assholes elsewhere anyway: we're just moving the location of where they're going to be assholes. And you definitely learn to just live with assholes: anyone trying to get a rise out of you isn't worth a reaction.

Thankfully we still have bios, signatures, and the occupation field to type in our gender and pronouns if it's important to us. Huzzah!

 

[Astaroth]

I do feel that a specific write-in gender field would be abused more than used properly. Something about making a specific place for things tends to inspire perversity in people. Aside from the trolls being trolls and dickheads who would make it into a political statement on purpose, there are a lot of people who would quite innocently be glib about it in the same way Location and Occupation get mostly joke content. Then we'd be a site of Potatoes and Apache Attack Helicopters and joke pronoun preferences, and it would garner the field pretty useless and probably upset a lot of people in the bargain. It's not like we can police that, either.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

People are still cracking the attack helicopter line?

Jesus fucking Christ, get some new material.

 

[RAIN.cloud]

Just wanted to say, so much yes to both these things.

It's funny because people sometimes act like they've stabbed me or something after I've had to correct them about my gender. I mean, I'm already dead inside, so you can't kill me! Seriously though, it's really a lot less of a deal than some people make out. Being misgendered sucks, but that's life. It's not up to other people to take massive precautions to avoid accidentally causing me discomfort stemming from my own dysphoria.

As someone who has also dealt/deals with social anxiety, you're very right about it being something you need to work on. You only get better when you push yourself to talk to people, even if it means you walk away from a conversation needing to change your shirt because you were sweating in fear so much. Which has never happened to me. Ever. Nup.

Also, I see people suggesting a type in box... I think that'd actually harm the trans and nb people around here. It's a feature some people would use to mock trans/nb people: guarantee we'd see a sudden rise in the apache helicopter population. That really sucks, but I think that's realistically what would happen.

Question:
Why not avoid both of these situations. By making someone ask questions they're not comfortable with you're forcing them into a possible panic attack that they don't need to have, which quite frankly is dangerous, physically and mentally. This place is supposed to be safe so people don't have to feel uncomfortable if they don't have to. I just think making people deal with things they may not be ready to is not the job of iwaku.

But that's my opinion so whatever I guess

I do feel that a specific write-in gender field would be abused more than used properly. Something about making a specific place for things tends to inspire perversity in people. Aside from the trolls being trolls and dickheads who would make it into a political statement on purpose, there are a lot of people who would quite innocently be glib about it in the same way Location and Occupation get mostly joke content. Then we'd be a site of Potatoes and Apache Attack Helicopters and joke pronoun preferences, and it would garner the field pretty useless and probably upset a lot of people in the bargain. It's not like we can police that, either.

Having a write in would probably avoid a lot of misgendering tho. Even if it is used as a joke, although I doubt as much as occupation and location, considering the latter isn't really something most people (that I'm aware of) are comfortable with.
I think the old way was fine and perhaps a write in would be good. The ice cream thing seems pointless, especially if your argument is that a write-in could POSSIBLY be treated as a joke while there's a purposeful joke answer there anyways. So what you're trying to avoid is a thing anyways???

*shrug*

 

[Astaroth]

The ice cream thing was removed because we saw that people were taking it as a literal replacement for the gender field, which was not the intent. We realize now that the ice cream question was a bad idea, believe me.

People are still free to put their gender in their About Me, in their partner searches, etc. A lot of people already did that, actually. We have other reasons for removing the gender section- completely divorced from gender identity- that have been gone over several times in this thread.

 

[Diana]

Question:
Why not avoid both of these situations. By making someone ask questions they're not comfortable with you're forcing them into a possible panic attack that they don't need to have, which quite frankly is dangerous, physically and mentally. This place is supposed to be safe so people don't have to feel uncomfortable if they don't have to. I just think making people deal with things they may not be ready to is not the job of iwaku.

The thing is, it's not Iwaku's job to protect people from their own social anxiety either. It can only do it's best to create a safe space for the widest margin of users.

In real life, you can't always hide and avoid things that make you uncomfortable. If your power gets shut off and the only way to get it back on is call the power company, but you have a huge phone phobia, you bite the bullet and find a way to do it. If you're terrified of asking people questions, but really want to roleplay, you HAVE to find a way to get past your anxiety so you can interact with people.

Social anxiety is not something anyone can use as an excuse to hide from their fears. Yes, people 100% absolutely understand that it sucks and it's hard to manage - sometimes you will fail and crack and have a meltdown. But those of us with social anxiety can't force other people to adapt to us specifically; it's not other people's responsibility to predict what we're going to be triggered by and then wrap us in pillows so we feel safe.

Iwaku just can't predict and adapt to every individual's personal anxieties when there are thousands of members to consider. That's not reasonable or rational.