ha! also you have a lot of shit in your custom title.. I've missed being allowed to swear. One bad things about my new home on Nationstates is you have to pick words carefully..
You better not be using any offensive words!
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Hellis
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I mean. I am all for avoiding being purposely offensive and not being totally inconsiderate with word choice. But isn't calling someone an "It" the epitome of objectifying. I mean, technically speaking. It refers to things, undecided, and impersonal things. This shit is hilarious in a tragic way.
Wait wait. What if you tried to sweet talk or sext someone trough this ap. That would be the most funny shit ever.
Wait wait. What if you tried to sweet talk or sext someone trough this ap. That would be the most funny shit ever.
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On the public transit I took this morning, it reminded me via advertisement that "hey sexy" is sexual harassment that you can be criminally charged for.
It never fucking ends.
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Hellis
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Depends on the context. Although I do think its not a thing you should charge people with, saying it randomly to people it can seem very sleazy.On the public transit I took this morning, it reminded me via advertisement that "hey sexy" is sexual harassment that you can be criminally charged for.
It never fucking ends.
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Kestrel
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Jongo_McDibbles
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Considering it didn't catch a genuine slur, ie, trannie. Nor did it have an issue with my calls for extermination of various groups of people. But gendered language was considered offensive.
How far would someone get if they refused to refer to people by their pronouns. I'm sure they would get in a lot of trouble if they started referring to Transgendered people as "It", if they wanted to be referred to as something else. Or anyone who didn't want to be an "It" or they, or them.
It enacts a faux pas of misgendering people and since it's deliberate, it's just rude. I wouldn't like to be called an it, it would be rather annoying.
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Kestrel
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I agree that thinking logically that this should be too dumb to even be taken seriously... But have you been to tumblr, man, have you seen that shit ;p
You're probably right, though. It's just that underbelly feeling of someone somewhere taking this seriously.
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Jongo_McDibbles
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I actually have a tumblr! :P
But luckily I have rarely observed this sort of thing coming to the surface, but when I do they tend to get disagreed with and calmly sat down and explained to why their opinions are shit.
Although the presence of so much "Men are scum." and "joking" misandry is still quite uncomfortably prevalent Also how whites cannot be the victim of racism because it's unlikely be Institutionalized in certain MEDCs, which would make it inter-personal racism, which can still be against white people and white passing people. It alienates potential allies who believe, like me that you can't bring equity if you keep putting others down.
It wouldn't surprise me if certain people, the "Yes, you too can be queer!" crowd would consider this a useful resource.
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Kestrel
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Oh hush, you don't get to have an opinion you overprivileged cis, white, straight, male misogynist. And by the way. By the way. It's xe, xir, xis because
Seriously though. I've had run-ins, but I rarely like the conversation because in spite of how much people throw shit like NAFALT at you, nine out of ten times I'm still judged by the standards of their labels rather than my ideas. In fact their interpretation of my ideas is warped by the labels they attach to me. It's a very tiring conversation to have where you need to first pander to people emotionally before you can reach them rationally. I find it difficult to converse with a metaphorical e-dick in my metaphorical mouth. I'd rather have the same talk with a three year old.
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Jongo_McDibbles
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Yeah, I understand where you are coming from. They assume since you possess certain beliefs about fictive and other such ideas. (Which, personally I believe to be harmful and ableist in itself, because who the fuck would want voices in their head, it's hellish. Not to mention how horrid DID is for the sufferers.) That you are a certain kind of person. I was only what, like 3 of those 6 things you called me, (Cis, male and white.)
Honestly, I get the sensation that a lot of these more extreme SJW types are histrionic and delusional. They latch onto this community that will accept them as long as they follow extremely strict rules, lest they be urged to kill themselves and perhaps doxxed so they can be harassed IRL. It's more of a cult than anything that encourages sensitive young people to join it.
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Kestrel
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It exploits vulnerability and encourages comfort over truth or growth. It has a mindset that personal growth is inferior to having your environment to pander to you. Honestly, it's one big overgrown victim-complex and that is... Honestly what makes me really sad about it. Young minds are drawn to it because puberty makes us feel really vulnerable and makes us question who we are. Because it masquerades as a community that accepts all, it looks like a safe place to explore. When that turns out to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, these young people are already too emotionally attached to make escaping it easy. And so begins the process of cognitive dissonance and social hypnosis.
Until it will eventually eat itself. There's more drama and poison in these communities than you can imagine, as they never learned to deal with conflict properly. The one comfort it gives me is that the bigger it's influence becomes, the closer the giant is to toppling over.
Until it will eventually eat itself. There's more drama and poison in these communities than you can imagine, as they never learned to deal with conflict properly. The one comfort it gives me is that the bigger it's influence becomes, the closer the giant is to toppling over.
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Jongo_McDibbles
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I agree with quite a bit of what you have said, about how internal conflict should be dealt with properly and constructively.
But to better yourself and to interact rationally before trying to have the environment change to fit you or to speak with more emotion than reason can only work so far in terms of society and the world as a whole.
What emotions you inspire in the people around you depend very heavily on how people react to you, if you're funny, kind, etc, people are more likely to be fond of you. But depending on the person themselves you're limited in how much you can better yourself before you can start to have to have the environment change around you. What was considered pandering a few decades ago is now considered normal, like wheelchair access in buildings, drinking and driving becoming a taboo, etc.
But also, you may need the environment and attitudes that were once considered the norm and widely accepted to change, ever so slightly, like said wheelchair access.
Now I will speak from personal experience, because of how warm a building was that I went to college at, I was passing out regularly in the building, despite me taking measures against it, so the college who were unwilling to pander to me, simply kicked me off of the course and I lost nearly a £100 in tuition fees, under the guise of it being unsafe for me to be there, which I would have been happy to do if they moved me to another building but they refused to.
But to better yourself and to interact rationally before trying to have the environment change to fit you or to speak with more emotion than reason can only work so far in terms of society and the world as a whole.
What emotions you inspire in the people around you depend very heavily on how people react to you, if you're funny, kind, etc, people are more likely to be fond of you. But depending on the person themselves you're limited in how much you can better yourself before you can start to have to have the environment change around you. What was considered pandering a few decades ago is now considered normal, like wheelchair access in buildings, drinking and driving becoming a taboo, etc.
But also, you may need the environment and attitudes that were once considered the norm and widely accepted to change, ever so slightly, like said wheelchair access.
Now I will speak from personal experience, because of how warm a building was that I went to college at, I was passing out regularly in the building, despite me taking measures against it, so the college who were unwilling to pander to me, simply kicked me off of the course and I lost nearly a £100 in tuition fees, under the guise of it being unsafe for me to be there, which I would have been happy to do if they moved me to another building but they refused to.
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Kestrel
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Sometimes an environment does need to change. Wheelchair access is a nice example, but a recent big one is the US ruling on gay marriage. That's completely fair. The big thing here to note is that we promote equality of opportunity instead of equality of outcome. Taking your college example, your chance to perform in college was physically hindered by the heat. You were denied the same opportunity as others. Asking for this change is reasonable, especially considering you were already taking measures on your own.
What would have been unreasonable, and more within the lines of that-which-shan't-be-named is doing, would be asking for bonus points on your grades because of your condition. ie, asking for outcome instead of opportunity.
What would have been unreasonable, and more within the lines of that-which-shan't-be-named is doing, would be asking for bonus points on your grades because of your condition. ie, asking for outcome instead of opportunity.
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Jongo_McDibbles
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Aye, I would agree.
If people are given the opportunity to perform, they tend to perform well. Equity, of respecting differences, of making reasonable allowances for people, rather than equality, everyone treated the same no matter what. Because as individuals, we have individual needs. But we also have base needs, a white man would be detrimentally affected by constant belittlement as much as any black man, or woman or whatever. It would wear anyone down.
If people are given the opportunity to perform, they tend to perform well. Equity, of respecting differences, of making reasonable allowances for people, rather than equality, everyone treated the same no matter what. Because as individuals, we have individual needs. But we also have base needs, a white man would be detrimentally affected by constant belittlement as much as any black man, or woman or whatever. It would wear anyone down.
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I've seen Tumblr make some weird attempts at trying as hard as possible to use gender-neutral pronouns, even in situations where it really doesn't make any sense (perhaps most amusingly when talking about fictional characters who are canonically male/female, and are addressed with gendered pronouns in their source material...), but, even in the most ludicrous examples I've seen, most people's pronoun of choice seems to be "they", or sometimes "xe", but never "it".
At any rate, I'm honestly not surprised that the program works the way it does. I can sort of see the logic behind it, and the intent isn't bad -- it's just horribly executed. Of course a program designed to pick up on key words and offer suggestions won't have anything to say about "Jews caused 9/11" because it's only designed to pick up on single words, and, if there was something in place designed to interpret sentences, there's no way it would work perfectly -- sort of like how Microsoft Word's grammar checker often flags sentences that we know have nothing wrong with them, or suggests changes that would actually make a sentence worse, or change the meaning of a sentence to something you don't want. At which point, it isn't so much about a skewed perception of political correctness as it is about computers just not being good at certain things that humans can much more easily pick up on.
Even the gender thing wouldn't be nearly as bad if the program had any concept of context, which it clearly doesn't (as evident when it tried to correct the "pop" in "pop culture"). Trying to use gender-neutral pronouns makes sense -- when you don't know the gender of the person in question. Problem is, the program can't tell when the gender of the subject isn't known; it's only programmed to pick up on any and all gendered words and suggest gender-neutral corrections, hence why it appears to have a ridiculous obsession with staying gender-neutral when there's no need for it.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand what a lot of you are saying about how ridiculous political correctness can be sometimes, but, let's keep in mind, this isn't about a human stopping to 'correct' any and all references to the existence of gender while ignoring anything more obviously offensive -- it's just a computer, the political correctness of which only seems as ridiculous as it does because it can't be programmed to interpret language nearly as well as a human can. I feel like most real people -- even if they are the type to be highly PC -- would be just a bit more rational in what they choose to go after -- at least in the sense that even people who would try to erase any gendered word whatsoever would probably still recognize an obviously racist/anti-semetic/sexist/etc statement like in the example.
There definitely are some people out there who take political correctness too far, but I think it's a bit much to act as if a robot like this -- which is literally incapable of understanding the intent or meaning behind any sentences you give it, and only knows how to detect the words "he" and "she" completely removed from context -- is really representative of political correctness as a whole.
Edit: Though I will say, Jongo's right that it should've picked up on the use of an actual slur like "tranny", which wouldn't be difficult to program. Still, I'll attribute that to the programmers simply forgetting to put that word in -- as I'm sure any real person aiming to be PC would surely recognize that as a slur. Think of it like when spellcheck fails to recognize what you're absolutely certain is a real, correctly-spelled word. Programs like these certainly aren't perfect, even ignoring the subjectivity of political correctness. Ask a real person to look over your writing and correct anything that could potentially be offensive and, well, even if you find the most over-the-top SJW to do the job, they still won't be quite as ridiculous as the computer, because at least they'll manage to catch the obvious.
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*Checks his own posts*
*Finds nothing*
*CTRL + F's "Tranny"*
*Only post that registers is yours*
Where are you getting this from? :/
I mean I agree, but I didn't point this out.
*peeks in with a tiny bit of free time* this topic is going well so far... Noone died yet so that is good!
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...Oh, whoops, it was Jongo that said that, not you -- also they spelled it as "trannie" which I mean I don't know or care which is correct but yeah.
Don't know why I thought it was you who brought that up. Sorry.
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