Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by LogicfromLogic, May 4, 2014.

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  1. So there's a lot of debate going around for and against wolves. I for one am for them (because of the very reasons as seen in the video I posted), but there are some out there that think that wolves have no place in the ecosystem. So, I wanted to hear your side of the argument.

    Please keep this civil.

  2. Nooooooooo keep the woofs! I love dem :'(
  3. Wolves do exactly for the eco-system the same thing hunters do during hunting season. Problem is, we've nearly hunted wolves to extinction!

    So if you let mother nature balance herself, wolves would be no issues, deer populations would be no issue, etc..

    Man, I've read a lot of stuff today that vividly illustrates just how much man has fucked with the Earth, and how much better off things would be if we were gone. :/
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  4. I don't see how wolves are any different from any other carnivores, or ourselves really. We are carnivores, with everything we do, we don't belong in the ecosystem.
  5. Wolves definitely have a place in the ecosystem. Reintroducing them to Yellowstone made a big difference. In some areas they can be overpopulated. If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in Idaho they overdid saving a particular species from extinction, so they ran out of food to eat. The overabundance of predators had no choice but to move in closer to human territory for something to hunt.

    Which is where we'd come in, I guess. Nature wasn't handling it very well because there were still lots of wolves running around, killing livestock that we humans need for food. It will cost way too much money to do anymore exterminating, though. Also, I feel like they're involving too much...hatred...into the killing. They reduced the number to 20% and still didn't think it's enough. Some residents even admitted that they wished there weren't any wolves around at all. :/ It's quite a controversy.

    I don't know, I wish that humans would just let things be. Stop poaching where we shouldn't be poaching, and stop trying to revive dead species because it only ends in disaster. We can't control everything. And we need wolves, dammit. They're like engineers for nature.

    Also, here's an article I skimmed on the aforementioned wolf issue: http://magicvalley.com/news/local/h...cle_d2a13c1e-e92d-56a5-9166-c3b616826530.html
  6. Not to play the devil's advocate, but wolves aren't lovely magical creatures that bound about the forest and keep the ecosystem in balance. They're predators who will reproduce as rapidly as they are physically capable of and take the easiest food they can get- just like humans. They are a distinct threat to livestock and can be dangerous for humans as well.
    Personally I still believe they ought to be kept around or re-introduced to areas that are wild enough to support them, but let's not make this a "wolves are awesome!" circlejerk. They're being hunted and trapped for a reason, not just because people are jerks picking on the poor innocent little critters.

  7. I don't think anyone is circle-jerking over wolves being cute, cuddly creatures. While that certainly happens, make no mistake, these things are vicious predators.

    I think the point we (or I) are making is that humans have so fucked up the balance that nature had already established. Instead of responsibly responding to the scales being tipped in one direction or the other, we've decided to simply exterminate wolves. Period. There are very large and very vocal communities in the areas that have wolf populations that want them all dead, and are working towards that goal.

    The problem with this is that we completely exterminate a species. If you can't see the wrong in this, God help you. I think it's arrogant and folly for Man to swing the axe on whether or not ANYTHING should or should not exist anymore.

  8. Nature has no balance established. Check out the basics of evolution- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy–Weinberg_principle
    If nature was in balance we wouldn't be here, nor would wolves. Balanced populations that don't shift are inviting disaster. Response to change is the basis of evolution. Honestly, the idea of "responsibly responding to the scales being tipped" is human, arrogant, and unnatural. Nature has no mercy. Nature is laissez-faire capitalism at its finest. The goal is success, multiplication of the numbers, at any cost and with utter disregard for the bigger picture.

    Species die every day. That was a truth of nature long before humans and it will be a truth long after. Nature will not hesitate to "swing the axe" and kill us because nature does not give one single shit. The rich take from the poor. When you play the game of survival, you win or you die. Grass didn't feel guilty about killing ferns. Cyanobaceria didn't hesitate to wipe out practically every oxygen-intolerant organism on the face of the planet. Mammals didn't feel bad about eating every last dinosaur egg they could find, killing those that might have survived massive climate change otherwise. Flowering plants caused massive losses among their coniferous brethren and they don't seem to need "God's help".

    Wolves are cool. I like wolves. But let's stop pretending like humans are anything new or that what we're doing isn't exactly what every other species is trying their hardest to do.
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