Why American directors can't do action

[unanun]

It's all trendy. I've seen clips of recent stuff it's all MMA and takedowns and grapples. I don't think those guys have a style.

 

[unanun]

Hellis, that scene suffers from the overcutting and unclear transitions between scenes just like Jackie Chan pointed out.

Actually, watchmen had some very good fights, like with the comedian.

 

[Brovo]

MMA

Mixed martial arts (MMA) is a full-contact combat sport that allows the use of both striking and grappling techniques, both standing and on the ground, from a variety of other combat sports and martial arts. Various mixed-style contests took place throughout Europe, Japan and the Pacific Rim during the early 1900s.

 

[Darog]

I think Unanun forgot to brain :D.

 

[Hellis]

MMA fighters have style. If you don't know about fighting you should not try and point out styles. Off my head, MMA fighters tend to practice Jui-Jutsu, specifically brazilian Jui-Jutsu. They tend to practice kickboxing and Muy Thai for strikes, as well as kempo and karate. YOu have some with greco roman wrestling background there as well. MMA fighters have black belts and purple belts in many cases, especially the old scholers. Hell, there are guys who incorperated snapkicks for Teakwando with great effect. MMA is a way a very pure combat setting, you have to build not a single form, but a whole array of tools to be able to handle what you face. There is a Icelandic fighter who's strikes are almost pure Karate, and he fucking floored people with it. And that kind of pure style is rare in that it's not realistic to defend yourself with. Because if you only know a pattern, your shit out luck when the perimiters break and you stand in front of something you cannot control. There are Thai-boxers who fight grappling experts and who compliment their innate striking with footwork from greco-roman for take down defence.

TO say MMA fighters have no style is ignorant towards the sport and its athletes. These are accomplished fighters who when on top of their style, tend to be adept and not one but several styles. Not a single fighter steps into the squared circle or the octagon without a background in martial arts.

To quote Jet Lee on the subject of MMA fighters after having him beat some in one of his movies. "In real life, I'd been killed by one of these guys."

 

[unanun]

Where's the negative connotations I was implying? I just said it's shifting to MMA, that's all.

And I'm pretty sure grappling and takedowns don't strictly fall under MMA. Set theory, bro.

When I said 'they have no style', I was referring to the actors, in response to Butterfly.

Are you guys constantly just under the boiling point?

 

[Brovo]

Where's the negative connotations I was implying? I just said it's shifting to MMA, that's all.

Was just pointing out that MMA is a big thing.

It's all trendy. I've seen clips of recent stuff it's all MMA and takedowns and grapples. I don't think those guys have a style.

Subject: MMA's. Next line: "I don't think those guys have a style." There was no reference to actors in the post, so I punted up the definition of MMA and nothing else. If that's having a boiling point, I'm... Sorry for posting clarification on what MMA is? I won't speak for other people, but, yeah, kinda sounded like you were taking the piss out of MMA. Which is weird when one wants to talk about style...

 

[Hellis]

And I'm pretty sure grappling and takedowns don't strictly fall under MMA. Set theory, bro.

If you read it again you'll notice I mentioned a whole lot of styles that MMA fighters use. If you have any knowledge at all regarding it, you know BJJ is one of the prime martial arts today when it comes to grappling. :D

Edit; Reworded it in a less offensive manner. My apologies.

 

[unanun]

I was replying to Butterfly o_o. See the post directly before mine:

I would have thought real Donnie Yen would focus on styles he actually knows extensively, not a style he learned primarily for a movie. Well, that's not entirely true, if I recall he has had Wing Chun training before, just not to the degree he used in the movie.

To which I reply:

It's all trendy. I've seen clips of recent stuff it's all MMA and takedowns and grapples. I don't think those guys have a style.

 

[Brovo]

I was replying to Butterfly o_o. See the post directly before mine:

You also have multiple replies. (One to Hellis, which you specifically addressed to Hellis who became the subject of that post.)

Anyway, it's all obviously a miscommunication, which has been sufficiently clarified. So...

 

[unanun]

Well, yes, I believe that Arrow clip suffers from incoherent cutting and not connecting hits between cuts, which are exactly the things Jackie discussed in the interview. On the other hand, I offered up some scenes from Watchmen where use slow, wide-pans (and sometimes too much slow-mo) that capture the skill of the fighters without having to jerk the camera.

Also, in a lot of saving private ryan, there is little camera jerk and liberal use of wide angle, even for scenes as chaotic as WW2. LotR on the other hand ..

 

[Hellis]

On the subject of camera work. The Protector have everyone beat. Everyone.

Thai fight movies are the best.

 

[Brovo]

LotR on the other hand ..

A metric ton of CGI. It's part of the reason I tend to prefer one on one fights myself: Some decent choreography and good camera angles can carry the day there. Massive battle scenes in Middle Earth will either be unfeasible, largely unseen, or subject to computer generated imagery to fill in where physical people just... Can't. I also tend to relegate Lord of the Rings more as an emotional story than a fight movie, it's not trying to portray realistic fights so much as it is the emotion of the journey. Why can Aragorn effortlessly cut through a hundred guys? Because he's the hero, and has the determination to see through to the end of the day. Why do two hobbits manage to slip past an entire army of man eating monsters? Because they're cunning and their courageousness carries them through the day.

Similar to the Japanese almost, in that respect. Less about the weapon, more about the master: Less about the number of enemies, more about the will of the one hoping to carve through them.

 

[Hellis]

Actually. One of favourite medival fight scenes gotta be the bandit attack in Black Death. Its just brutal and vicious.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Thai fight movies are the best.

Let's not forget Indonesia, either.

 

[Hellis]

Let's not forget Indonesia, either.

The Raid movies gave me fight boners. No shame.

 

[unanun]

Camera swings and jitters but remains focused on the guy, we see his skills.

Also, did he just try to pull a Brock Samson?

 

[Hecatoncheires]

It still makes me giggle that it's a Welsh bloke (Gareth Evans) directing them.

You can see his take on Indonesian horror in V/H/S/2. That man's got talent.

 

[Brovo]

I should really watch The Raid at some point. While I'm at it, any other fighting movies y'all can recommend binging on?

EDIT

Aside from IPMan. I am definitely going to try and find that on Netflix.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Camera swings and jitters but remains focused on the guy, we see his skills.

Both of 'The Raid' films are great for nice, long cuts. Helps that most of the main actors are all martial artists.