What is your religion?

[GingerXX]

Okay, I'm sorry, but I couldn't read this without feeling the need to correct a few misconceptions. I promise I'm not going to rant or anything, just give a few verses and try to answer those questions.

Again, this is what I believe through both what I was taught and my own research. Take it as you will.
And Please, no one feel like you have to read it. It's perfectly fine if you ignore me :)

---

Falcon's attempt to answer some questions on Christianity,
because she couldn't leave well enough alone.​

First - having friends outside the faith, through all different walks of life is NOT a bad thing.
Look at the people Christ spent his life with. Prostitutes, tax collectors, lepers, beggars, Fisherman, physicians, gentiles, carpenters etc. Not the priests or nobility as was expected of the Messiah. And then there's this.

Notice he did not say "love like minded people," what he said was "love your neighbor." Directly following that (In Luke 10) is the story of the good Samaritan. I might point out that the Jewish and Samaritan society hated each other. What Christ was saying is that it doesn't matter who a person is, where they're from, what they believe, what their life style look like, Everybody is deserving of love. There are numerous other passages like this the summation of which is this: Love People, period.
(Note: When I say love in this context I mean friendship, kindness, compassion, help etc.)

Second - Those who have never heard the gospel DO still get a chance at heaven
This one is a little tricky as it is never addressed obviously. However there are several verses that strongly suggest that a provision had been made for those who've have never had the opportunity to hear (and some scholars argue about it). They are:

There is also a passage in Revelation but as I can't find the exact reference I'm not going to quote it. I prefer it if people can check for themselves. :)

C.S. Lewis has a passage at the end of the "Last Battle" that actually illustrates this point quite nicely. In it a Calormen soldier, Emeth, finds himself in Aslan's country (for the purposes of the illustration, heaven) and meets Aslan. Emeth is then given a choice, the same choice all the other characters have had prior to getting to Aslan's country, but Emeth himself has never previously had a chance for.

Third - People who classify as LGBT etc. do NOT immediately go to hell
I'll be honest, when I hear people say otherwise it annoys me to no end.
It IS possible to be a Christian and LGBT.
However, the Bible does classify homosexuality as a sin, but then we already know the Bible says that.
What annoys me is the fact that many people who claim that "Homosexuality = hell" fail to take into account that the Bible also classifies any sort of sexual action outside of marriage as a sin. In fact it lumps homosexuality together with things like premarital sex, adultery, incest, bestiality, and some argue masturbation. I've never heard anyone claim that the woman who gets pregnant outside of wedlock is going to hell immediately, it's all in the same category.
Christ takes it a step further and tosses in lustful thinking. (Seriously, show me a single adult in this world who has not struggled with lustful thinking as some point, myself included.)


The point is not all the rules and regulations we are supposed to follow, the point is that no matter how badly we screw up (and everyone does) Christ and his love is still there. And we are supposed to help and love one another, not condemn or judge. There are a great many Christians who have missed the point entirely and I'm sorry to anyone who's ever had questions or concerns and been treated poorly for it.



Again, this is only what I believe and the verses I use to back it up.
I honestly hope the above will help the understanding of the addressed questions.

I understand that the bible had stated all those things, but I guess you could say that people ruined it for me. Being raised in the south does NOT come with 'good ol' southern hospitality'

No. It's full of racist, sexist, and homophobic people. Many of the Christians down her are very closed minded and after hearing all my friends get called faggots, quirs, weirdos, and freaks 24/7 by Christians here, it kinda turns your view.

I still have Christian friends, and I probably am still kinda Christian. Right now I'm just in a state of i don't know. All I do know is that I need to just live my life as morally, greatly, and successfully as I can try:) I really wish I could have faith right now, but it's just not happening.

Thanks though! You're one of the better and more understanding people of your religion. :)

 

[Falcon]

^_^
I completely agree.
People are people and should be treated as such regardless of whatever differences they may have from ourselves. No two persons are ever 100% the same and no two will ever agree 100% on everything, but when we look past it or even dare I say embrace it, amazing things have been known to happen.

Unfortunately people are also capable of being big fat [insert your favorite phrase here]
I'm sorry they ruined it for you.

I hope you find whatever it is you're searching for.
*offers Ginger a hug*

 

[GingerXX]

*Happily hugs* ^.^ Thanks! Don't really know right now, but hopefully I will soon!

 

[Asmodeus]

I'm curious - is empiricism itself not a total system?

Must everything have a destiny, or purpose?

Empiricism only functions in the sensory material realm. So no. :P

And yes. I believe all things have a direct or indirect purpose. Like letters in a (mildly edited) novel.

 

[demon host]

Full-time atheist.

 

[unanun]

Empiricism only functions in the sensory material realm. So no. :P

And yes. I believe all things have a direct or indirect purpose. Like letters in a (mildly edited) novel.

We are going to have to debate about this extensively.

Personally, I put a lot of questions about religion, deities, higher purposes, and atheism out of mind. I mostly concentrate on the reality I see - there's enough to be baffled about as is.

 

[CoffeeCake]

Hey, you asked, right?

I've asked myself over and over what I believe. Some of you already know that I have an annoying tendency to hate tradition-for-tradition's-sake, so I had to address the question. I read media, pro-Christian, non-Christian, and anti-Christian to weigh it all. I look at my life and those of others. I've quirked an eyebrow at the sheer number of surviving copies of the Bible and how little variation there is among them. I pray, and I get answers, even if they aren't always immediate. So far it hasn't been a booming voice for me. Sometimes it's dreams that affect me differently than my usual ones(I generally find most dreams interesting to pick at but rarely prophetic). Sometimes it's freakish "coincidence" or left-field timely occurrences--cascading improbabilities. Sometimes it's just something that you could easily chalk up to conscience or a moment of inspiration except that it's OCC for what you know about yourself and it actually works , sometimes despite violating common sense and reason.

Sometimes it's looking back years ago when I first prayed about something and then said, "I guess the answer is 'no'/I'm just wasting my time/There's no way this can change" only to realize that it did eventually change when I least expected it. Sometimes in those moments, I can imagine God folding His arms and saying, "And you thought I forgot, didn't you?"

Years? Some may say. That's just the passage of time! Well, I didn't see how the passage of time was going to change the situation. People have killed themselves because they were certain the passage of time wouldn't change a situation! In that light, I can't help but be grateful to be wrong.


So, back to the main question:

I believe in an omipotent, omniscient, eternal, Tri-une, and loving God who exists without end or beginning and needing nothing. I believe the latter is a trait that only God possesses. I believe in God as the reference point, meaning the very concepts of family, love, and the dichotomy of good an evil originate with Him. As the one and only truly independent being, He is sometimes referred to as "I Am" because He is the only being that just simply exists without cause, needs, or threat of non-existence. Everything else was created, but He just simply exists. This is hard for us to really accept because time is such a critical parameter for all created things. Being outside of time, He can foreknow our actions without having to puppeteer us because He has such a completely different way of looking at things, but when He interacts with human beings, it's sort of like when you oversimplify things to talk to a young child.

I believe that He created and maintains the existence of matter, spirits, the very laws of science(one of the closest things to breadcrumbs imo, ironically), and all life. I believe that He created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden where humanity originally only had to abide by one moral rule: "Don't eat fruit from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil."

I've stated it before that I believe humanity being created "in the image/likeness" of God isn't just being bipedal and humanoid. I believe that many of the things we admire about other human beings are severely watered-down funhouse-mirror-distorted reflection of that. Charisma, intelligence, creativity, strength, love, craftsmanship, etc. And so, I don't believe the sin was about seeking knowledge. God, being omniscient and wise, would have given Adam and Eve all the knowledge they needed to perform their job of acting as deputized rulers and caretakers of the planet(And the Book of Proverbs makes much of acquiring understanding). This was a test of whether or not humanity would continue in charge of the world while under God's direct authority or try things outside of His it.

Lest I go on and on forever, I do believe that the Bible contains a narrative of God's relationship with humanity from the beginning of time into the future. It illustrates the original relationship of a sinless humanity living as the close children of a loving God and the deputized rulers of the once-perfect world; the damaging of that relationship through the first sin of humanity, leading to the existence of suffering and death(And the world generally no longer functioning like it should. It makes sense, really. Imperfect relationship with the source of all goodness and perfection and peace means that those things become harder to come by); God allowing people to try self-governing with varying degrees of direct and indirect intervention(prophets, the Ark of the Covenant, laws and commandments, JESUS!); God allowing the Devil to try his hand at ruling for seven years; God via Jesus(it's complicated) giving humanity a thousand-year preview of His direct rule at the end of which those who want to can opt out; a New Heaven and New Earth with God and the humans who accepted Him in a better relationship than the the first time around, everything fixed and better than ever, and the good feels never end.

I believe that God will eventually make the universe into a place of perfection without boredom or having to enact loss of individuality(which is a natural concern for anyone to have when this idea is brought up). I believe the fact that we, as people, can't really conceive of such a thing is a reflection of our inability to achieve it on our own and the world's current inability to support such a kind of existence.

I believe the Monomyth resonates because it calls out to some deep down parts of us that know what really happened and what's going to happen.

That's what I believe. I know it angers people, but I'm not trolling.

I'd like to share a few things in Q&A form.

Q:You're friends with a lot of people who don't believe in the whole Jesus thing. How can you just say that they're going to hell?

A:It's hard for me too. And bear in mind that this concept of hell isn't "That place for a-holes you hate and don't like" or "people who suck or aren't as good as you." Quite the contrary. The text teaches that every human being, no matter how good, inherits the "going to hell" status. I don't decide who goes where. There's no need for judging another person. We're all already judged by default. A person doesn't get to heaven by being good. A person gets to heaven by having their sins atoned for. In the Old Covenant there were prescribed repeated animal sacrifices. Now, all one need do is accept Jesus as their Lord and trust in his perfect sacrifice(He lived the only perfect life yet died for the guilt, evil and imperfection of everyone that ever lived and ever will live) and they will be saved from hell. The Bible itself says that a Christian can't brag about how they got themself a ticket to heaven and look down on others. Jesus did the work! "Saved" is a passive word after all. "Good deeds" and trying to keep commandments in our own imperfect and human ways are a side effect. Gratitude is generally shown by doing things the gift-giver likes.

A simple analogy would be if I had a fatal disease with only one effective treatment. I can get angry with the physician for saying there is only one treatment and refuse it, but that doesn't invalidate the diagnosis.

Conversely, no one telling a person to seek treatment should be happy to tell someone that they have a fatal disease. A Christian who enjoys angrily or happily shouting "You're going to hell" is just as twisted.



Q:What about your gender-and-sexuality weirdness?
A:Ever noticed how wish-washy I've been about this? It's a humbling and sobering topic for me the fills me with conflict. Sometimes I'd like nothing more than to just play neutral. Lots of straight people are so uptight and fearful, and I have a lot in common with gay stereotypes. I hate the labeling of orientations anyway. The most comfortable thing for me to do would be to shut my mouth. Yet if I go with the Book, I go with the Book. Sometimes I still feel like I'd make a much better woman than a man--or at least a more acceptable one to the people around me--but per Romans 14, even if I don't necessarily feel a moral recoil when I hear about others transitioning, the idea of doing it myself just isn't something I can do with a clear conscience, so I don't pursue it.

Q:Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexuals?
A:This whole area is a mess in modern understanding, I believe. God never forbid deeply loving people of the same sex, but sex and love are not the same(for the "what about David/Jonathan or Naomi/Ruth?" replies). In fact I wish society were more open about the idea to be honest.
Q:Are LGBs inherently eeeevil?
A:No more than heterosexuals. The bottom line is that almost everyone (except maybe the asexuals) at some point wants sex with someone that God says they shouldn't according to the Scriptures. Whether or not we act on those urges is our prerogative, but we deal with consequences too. And the inclusion of lustful thoughts in the sinful category just levels the playing field to keep everyone humble. Even nonsexual sins level the field for those who are asexual!

Q:So you say you relate to these things but abstain because of your beliefs. Do you hate yourself?
A:I've heard of people doing that. "Self-loathing" was the term an atheist friend used. Nope, I don't. I feel that hating oneself misses the point of it all. God loves you. Get right with Him and know that one day you'll be perfect. In the meantime, know that he's understanding and forgives mistakes and relapses(because He knows we're imperfect), but we should take care that we neither become morbidly self-critical nor apathetic.


Arrogance and Christianity don't mix very well is the bottom line. I understand it may seem thr opposite when saying to people, "This is what you ought to do because God!" But the basic ideas is that when someone warns you about an unsafe bridge that you were heading towards, you might feel obligated to try to stop others from falling in too.

That's what this is to me. I'm finally sharing this with people I care about.

If this is wrong, you are, of course, right to call me crazy.

Will I go around afterward badgering people to believe what I believe? No, so don't worry about me doing so. I've spoken my piece.

 

[TatsukiNoka]

I wouldn't call myself a christian, catholic, or any of that. I don't go to church but I do believe. Am I going to shove my beliefs on anyone else, nope. I can only speak for me, myself, and I so that's my religion, undefined.

 

[Asmodeus]

I am not interested in halfassing something that important. O_O

Why not mix and match, like wot I do? Take the best of the things you've found and build your own little cheesecake?

But that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion that is different than mine.

What about Jihad? Death to the infidels? Is that an opinion that should have its place? Or should genocidal ideologies be stopped?

I believe that all living things have some manner of energy and when we die, people in particular, we are brought to a huge collective of energies that all mingle together in one big proverbial pot.

Are you talking about the Shamanic Oversoul / Overmind? What do you think about the techno-pagan idea that the Internet is a reflection of that? A world where we take avatar forms and mingle our consciousness? I, for one, love that resonance.

I believe in the Bible and the words printed there.

You probably know what I'm going to ask. Is the Bible, in your opinion, a literal body of truth? Are the seeming contradictions a result of flawed editing or flawed interpretation?

I have a petrifying fear of death and really believe some belief system would help with that

I still have that fear, as I'm sure others do. It's a place of terror that you circle every day. But I sometimes feel my fear has been manufactured. Do you think your fear is a product of the Scientific Age - an age that insists you believe only in the evidence of your senses and discount all else that can't be proven?

I just want to pamper myself and heck, my close friends and family(maybe) while we're still here, not when we're dead

Are you talking in a purely physical sense? You want to pamper your body and your senses, for as much time as you have? I know hedonism sometimes has a negative connotation, but it seems that you're leaning that way. Is there such a thing as spiritual pampering?

Science should not be viewed as a belief system but a tool! A tool that is constantly being improved

But is there a limit to this tool? Will humanity one day reach a stage where it cannot empirically test what is left? Things beyond human understanding and human senses? Or do you believe that humans will evolve with the scientific method and, biologically, become capable of testing all that exists?

Falcon's attempt to answer some questions on Christianity,

He who speaketh twice, doth be questionethed twiceth. Your attempt involved the New Testament. Do you see this as a clarification of the Old Testament? A juxtaposition to it? Or is it just coincidence and you have Old Testament lessons to support your ideas?

Being raised in the south does NOT come with 'good ol' southern hospitality'

I hear ya. Two years ago I was deeply spiritual. Then I moved to Arkansas, and almost overnight I became sickened by the Christianity that exists there. I almost gave up my faith. Too many places in the American South are breeding grounds for the worst kind of hatred and ignorance. But as you move on, and step beyond the shadow of these people, a sense of purpose can return. Hang in there. I advise you to get the hell out (and that is the only rant I'm going to unleash in this thread).

I mostly concentrate on the reality I see - there's enough to be baffled about as is.

But... doesn't religion help... to unravel the bafflement of the reality you see....? *squints at Unanun* For example, what about the idea that everyone is given what they need in order to learn a lesson? The physically disabled are here to learn to let others love them? The good-looking are here to learn the pitfalls of vanity? The intelligent are here to learn the dangers of procrastination? We live multiple lives in multiple bodies, and in each one are given the "build" by which our soul must be educated.

I believe the Monomyth resonates because it calls out to some deep down parts of us that know what really happened and what's going to happen.

You probably remember my thinking here - God knows I've rammed it down your throats in my Mythos RPs. If the Monomyth gave us a Meta-Narrative, which in turn inspired our folklore and storytelling, then is God truly perfect? Or is He a literary Archetype? Is He a mentor who has gone through the Hero's Journey? Is He a Shapeshifter who exists to frustrate us and be unknowable? Is he a Trickster, playing with our pride? Or, even better, is He the hero? Could God's ongoing quest to perfect the human race be a conscious effort to perfect Himself as well?

so that's my religion, undefined.

*squints* So... you believe in something... but you're not gonna tell us? *baits with chicken nuggets* Pweeeeease?

 

[TatsukiNoka]

Chicken nuggets......hopefully the kind from MD made with white meat rather than what they used to make them with. *baited*


I believe that there is a higher power, something not even I can fully understand or comprehend which allows me to wake up every day. To breathe. Function. Too many things have happened in my life for me not to think that I alone managed to overcome them. I'm not going to put a label on it, call this or that, just know I believe from my own personal standing.

 

[Ser K+]

Yes, I'm talking physical sense. For greatness!

But yeah, I may be leaning towards hedonism... I take pleasure in improving life for whoever, within a justified means, if I can.

I also laughed after reading the response, perhaps "pamper" wasn't the right word. Still, I personally don't want to waste the time I have, so... I may be hedonist.

... I haven't an answer for the spiritual pampering question though. Cause yeah, I'd have to read up on religious histories. Then read up on what I'd call harsh or not. Etc.

Meh.

 

[WarriorHeart]

I am a follower of Christ.

 

[Dawn]

What about Jihad? Death to the infidels? Is that an opinion that should have its place? Or should genocidal ideologies be stopped?

That comment was directly related to whether or not there is a god.

But since you're asking me... o_o If a religion isn't causing someone grief or harm then it's fine with me. What you mentioned is NOT fine with me, obviously. >__>; Religion should be about giving people hope and strength to get through life. It shouldn't be about hurting people who are different than us.

 

[Melon]

I am, surprisingly, a Christian despite my interests in everything 'dark' and 'horrifying'. I am currently contemplating what my purpose is in this world; as many people do with depression. So I am telling myself that God put me here for some reason, even though it is unknown at the moment. Now, I have nothing against other religions. As long as you aren't hurting others or yourself for your religion. I love everyone, despite how I act towards some people. I'm called to love everyone, not necessarily like the person. If that makes sense.

 

[Falcon]

You probably know what I'm going to ask. Is the Bible, in your opinion, a literal body of truth? Are the seeming contradictions a result of flawed editing or flawed interpretation?

If God does not lie then the Bible, as his word, must also be true.
Any seeming contradictions (which would be easier to answer if I knew exactly what you referred to) must then be the result of human error. I'm not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, but in my experience any differences in translation can usually be cleared up by going back to the root words. And there are always cases of misinterpretation and things taken out of context.

He who speaketh twice, doth be questionethed twiceth.

No worries, I don't mind questions.

Your attempt involved the New Testament. Do you see this as a clarification of the Old Testament? A juxtaposition to it? Or is it just coincidence and you have Old Testament lessons to support your ideas?

More a continuation I guess. I've never really thought of them as separate things. But considering that Christ's audience, family, and culture were primarily in the Jewish community (with a few Romans, samaritans etc thrown in) and that they would have all been very familiar with the Old Testament teachings (remember that he taught in the temple and that the priests would have had the Pentitude memorized) I hardly think the two can really be separated.

 

[Kitty]

Frankly this has been on my mind a lot and it's killing me.
*Rant warning*

I'm that stereotypical 17 year old that got Christ shoved down her throat for years and in realization every emotion I ever felt, every thought I ever had, was going to send my ass to hell I tried to end it twice.
I can't tell if anything I've felt or seen has been supernatural because sometimes I think it is and then I'm told schizophrenia runs in my family and I have 0 support from my super christian family who thinks I'm insane anyway. So probably my mind is just playing tricks on me and when you have more diagnosis's than numbers in a phone book you start to believe people that you can't even trust your own damn self.

Anyway I've gone through enough religious hate in my life to know I should just keep what I feel is right to myself, and live by those morals and just try to take steps in what I think is the right direction. I'm tired of being taught lessons by hypocrites and being told ridiculous rules and regulations on how to live my life just so I can go to this magical place that's going to give me everything I've ever wanted.

Like I said Im not gonna go into depth but like I'm 17 I really wish all this religion stuff could go away and not cause me more anxiety until I'm like an old lady and I have time to think about these things. Because if I chose the wrong religion but do the right things I'm going to hell. If I chose the right religion and do the wrong things I'm going to hell. If I chose no religion and do the right things or wrong things I'm still going to hell. I'm just going to hell basically, no matter what I do, and really I'm just asking to perish completely and that isn't much is it? Why hell? Why heaven? Can't I just chose eject and buh-bye? Life is hypocritical and tiring and if death is this complicated too I hope there is a "eject" option for the soul because I just can't handle all this complete bullshit I just want to put makeup on and flirt with my friends and pretend I have my own chef tv show when I'm cooking my veggie burgers.

Tl;DR : I just follow my own religion but I'm basically putting it off until I'm like a fat 40 year old riding my scooter into Walmart and by then Isis will have nuked us by then and with me going to NYC next year I'll probably be the first one to die.

Or until I can talk to someone about it without them pooping on my head for not being a certain way (Not only my Christian family but I have pagan friends (norse? Something like that?) That also like to give a good shove of knowledge down my throat)

 

[Peter Feels]

Are you talking about the Shamanic Oversoul / Overmind? What do you think about the techno-pagan idea that the Internet is a reflection of that? A world where we take avatar forms and mingle our consciousness? I, for one, love that resonance.

Roughly, yes. I share a lot of similarities. I agree with that idea. I think we may eventually reach an epoch wherein we either create digitally based sentience or somehow transfer ourselves into a digital presence. If we take things such as the Google Glass and RFID chips, etc., being the entry steps into "cyberization", it would seem to hold true. To think that we could eventually move on to become essentially infinite beings sounds wonderful.

 

[Ochalla]

But is there a limit to this tool? Will humanity one day reach a stage where it cannot empirically test what is left? Things beyond human understanding and human senses? Or do you believe that humans will evolve with the scientific method and, biologically, become capable of testing all that exists?

I don't know. Honestly, when I think of the vastness of space and the universe and what's beyond what we can detect and understand currently, I feel both overwhelmed and strangely euphoric. I think humanity will have to far beyond transcend what we view as humans before things ever really begin to make sense. While there are things we are better understanding, there are many things that as we get a better understanding, we end up with more questions. People thought the Human Genome project would 'unlock' the very being of humanity. Instead they found the DNA sequence to be far shorter then imagined. There wasn't a one to one translation between gene codes and functions (forgetting ATM if it was enzymes or something else). Now they're only beginning to understand epigenectics. Something there's been evidence for in human and animal conditions over a hundred years ago in studies (and somewhat ignored) but no known mechanics in the body for. It's a pandora's box!

 

[Asmodeus]

Any seeming contradictions (which would be easier to answer if I knew exactly what you referred to) must then be the result of human error.

o_o Apologies - I thought these were well-known. For example, this stuff. I believe it's human error too. Also, I think some of these things can be simultaneously believed, such as God existed in both light and darkness; God knowing men's hearts but also testing them; God being all-powerful yet not all powerful. For a being outside of time, causality and physical laws, I think he can exist in seemingly contradictory states. After all, He embodies oneness.

the entry steps into "cyberization"

I think humanity will have to far beyond transcend what we view as humans

This is my kinda shit. I love the idea that the cybernetic age is somehow preordained or foretold in religion. A return to global consciousness. Perhaps we are all the building blocks of our eventual Creator, and will in time create ourselves in a big wibbly wobbly time loop.


Now, to push to envelope a little more, would anyone care to comment on.... ISIS???

Should this "Death Cult" be wiped out?

 

[Falcon]

o_o Apologies - I thought these were well-known. For example, this stuff.

Thanks, There is a lot of stuff there, but I am definitely interested in going through it.

On the first skim through I will say that off the top of my head some of those verses are out of context and others fail to take into account things like the passage of time between events or that some verses are targeted at specific events or people.
Just a quick example: On the matter of the Egyptian horses (number 61) only the horses belonging to the Egyptian's were killed. Those belonging to the Israelites were left alone, meaning that there was plenty of time before the red sea incident for Israel's horses to be bought or commandeered in order to pull the Egyptian chariots.

I don't know all of them though, so it looks like I have some reading to do :)

Anything specific that you want me to look at?