What is the greatest evil?

[Brovo]

According to your subjective views. This is a curious thought exercise, so please don't write "all of them are the worst." Try to pick one. If you can't, that's okay too, and you can explain why, but my goal here is to try and figure out what people think of as the "unthinkable evil" type thing.

As for why: I was thinking about future villains in Legend of Renalta and was thinking about villainous qualities, but I wasn't sure what most people would consider the biggest evil out of these three choices specifically.

As always, please don't bully each other. Just say what you think. I wasn't sure if it would even be okay to ask this because I shudder to think of the potential debates that could erupt about the nature of evil, so keep it civil. Keep it professional.

 

[Legens Legentis]

Communism
Ignorance. There is no rape, murder, or slavery without ignorance at its core.
But if I had to choose from the options above, murder is the most despicable.

 

[Kagayours]

I knew pretty quickly that I wouldn't say murder is the worst evil, just because there are so many gray areas to it. Like, I think we can all generally agree that murder is wrong, but then the question becomes, what counts as murder? Is the death penalty murder? What about abortion? Self-defense? Killing an enemy soldier during a war? Obviously it would be easy to imagine an example of murder that's pretty far removed from any gray area, but, it feels weird to say "killing another person is wrong and therefore evil in any circumstance" when there are circumstances in which it stops being so cut-and-dry and instead becomes a debatable subject. So, I can't see it as being the "greatest evil".

I had a harder time deciding between rape and slavery, but eventually what made me choose slavery was this: while rape can be an incredibly traumatic experience that can really fuck up your life, at least you have your own life to return to. You might feel broken, you might feel like you can never be your own person again -- but the truth is, you do still have your own life, and you have support you can turn to, and it's possible to recover. I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm certainly not trying to trivialize how difficult it can be for many rape victims to recover. But my point is, it's still possible for you to recover, to be your own person, and to go back to living a fulfilling life. If you're a slave, however? You don't have your own life. You are literally the property of another person -- and your entire existence hinges around what your owner(s) want to do with you. This not only means that you might have to endure some of the shittiest treatment imaginable, depending on how cruel your owners are -- but, even if you're relatively well-treated, the point remains that you simply cannot go out and live your own life. Your life is merely an object that someone else owns, and that remains true for your entire life. Rape is an awful experience, but, hopefully, you won't have to suffer through it again -- a slave, meanwhile, doesn't have the same hope for "recovery", doesn't have the same light at the end of the tunnel. A rape victim is still a person, who has an identity outside of being a rape victim, and who can go on to accomplish other things -- but a slave is just a slave. They are, in the eyes of a society that allows slavery, not even considered to be "a person". They are an object -- an animal, at best. A rape victim may feel like they've lost all their dignity, they may feel like their rapist didn't even treat them as a human being -- but at least they are still given the dignity of being considered a human being. A slave simply doesn't have that. And it isn't just because of some traumatic experience that one awful person inflicted upon them, either -- it is a fact of their existence, one that they may have even been born into. And, in order for slavery to even exist in a society, that society must have a decent number of people who approve of slavery, or else the practice wouldn't be able to exist -- which means that society in general does not give slaves the dignity of being considered people. It isn't just one rapist taking away their dignity as a human -- it's their entire world, and all their peers, refusing them the dignity of being called a human, for life. And that, I'd say, makes slavery more evil than rape.

 

[Sidhe]

My gut immediately told me to go with 'rape, without question,' but thinking about it beyond my knee-jerk reaction, slavery is absolutely the worst evil. @Kaga-kun put the reasons why more eloquently than I would be able to right now.

 

[Cpt Toellner]

Mankind.

In it's most simple form, evil=man,

 

[SacredWarrior]

I chose slavery because you can experience rape while being a slave and may witness murder as well so the other two choices can happen too. @Kaga-kun pretty much said everything for anyone who chooses slavery.

 

[Grothnor]

imho Rape (on the condition that the Slavery and Rape options in the poll are mutually exclusive, ie slavery without rape) and here's why:

Say there's someone you absolutely loathe, with every fiber of your being, to the point that you were willing to do anything and go to any length to make them suffer. Murder would be too easy. It's a few moments of agony (method dependent) followed by oblivion. Enslaving them can result in the destruction of their will and the person they were, but can be resisted. By it's nature you try to distance yourself from your captive's humanity, reducing them to things rather than people.

Rape is another beast entirely. In the span of moments you can inflict the maximum amount of psychological damage with the least amount of effort. The intimacy of the act cannot be resisted or ignored. You destroy the person that they were in moments, and that kind of control can be obscenely intoxicating.

I highly value the person that I am, my personality and my identity. In fact, I absolutely hated when I had my first panic attack because I was turning into a 'Nervous Wreck' and that which was making me do so was completely beyond my control. The several months after my panic attack were the most miserable time of my life. To have any part of the person that I am violently altered through trauma is terrible. To have that change forced onto me by someone else is abominable.

 

[Brovo]

So, I mulled over my own question while at work, rolling it over in my head for a few hours, and came to my own conclusions that I actually felt like sharing.

I ended up voting murder as the worst of them. I kept struggling with it for a solid three hours, cycling through the same issue: "What causes the most pain?" Eventually I gave up, because they all cause insane levels of trauma that cannot conceivably be properly contrasted or measured. Eventually I settled on a different deciding factor, and that is recovery & hope.

An enslaved person can be liberated.

A person who is raped can recover.

A person who is murdered is the only 100% effective action to prevent that entity from recovering.

Even if a person lived their whole life enslaved, they still have the hope of eventually escaping until death takes them. Even if a person ends up living with trauma for the rest of their life as a result of rape, they can still experience positive emotions and situations, and make impacts on other people's lives. A person who is enslaved or raped, still has the potential to survive and recover, and turn the tables in their favour. They still, always, at some level, have the potential for hope.

A person who is murdered is effectively erased. Everything which they were, ends. It goes a step beyond the pale, it's an action that effectively says "I hate you so much that your continued existence is too much for me to tolerate, even as a victim of my malicious tendencies."

I guess it depends which a person thinks is more powerful: Hope, or pain.

All of these answers are still legitimate. They're all horrible in their own way. This answer of mine is purely personal, and I still want more answers. More information to assimilate and understand.

 

[Carrie]

Death is a release from suffering. Murdering someone is mercy. Simply being alive is pure Hell to some people and some religions.

Rape is circumstantial and occasional depending on context. But if someone is raped on a regular basis, they are effectively enslaved.

Slavery deprives basic freedoms over an extended period of time, personal and physical integrity sometimes included (rape).

I voted slavery.

 

[Minibit]

/looks at poll

LOLNOPE.

 

[Brovo]

/looks at poll

LOLNOPE.

 

[Kestrel]

I remember someone once gave the the advice when I was considering a career in medicine, that I would have to come to terms that at one point in my career I would kill someone, or worse, cripple them for life.

Slavery has the potential to be the worst crime due to it's constant presence. Time, is the key factor. Ask any cult or loverboy. To break someone past the point of no return, what you need is time.

 

[Windsong]

Murder. Because it's an end to life. Period. The worst.

Rape can be fetishized, even enjoyed, because the brain likes protecting our ego/psyche whatever by any mental gymnastics necessary. Something also about potential for new life, but it's too early to think about that. Still pretty awful though.

Slavery, while bad, isn't always whips, chains, and brutality. Surely some didn't have such bad lives for kind masters.

Windsong condones none none of the above before you get your panties in a wad.

 

[Silent]

A raped person may re-obtain their dignity taken from them.
An enslaved man can obtain Dignity without being treated with dignity.
A corpse no longer has or can obtain dignity despite being treated with dignity.

A raped person still has their hopes and dreams even though their mind feels enslaved.
An enslaved man can hope and dream even though their body is enslaved, their mind and spirit is not.
A corpse can no longer hope or dream.

A raped person can go on with their lives and hopefully make an impact on the world around them.
An enslaved man can still go on with their lives and hopefully make an impact on those around them even while still enslaved.
A corpse no longer has the ability to make an impact on the the people or the world around them.

A Corpse can no longer prove themselves by the content of their character.
A Corpse can no longer give love, kindness, or understanding to another human being.
A Corpse no longer holds promise of possibility.

A Corpse is a shadow of promise.
A Corpse is a shadow of someone's hopes and dreams.
A Corpse leaves despair and shadows over those left behind.

Live to fight another day..

 

[Quiet One]

I think rape is probably the worst. Some of those above have already established that there's a grey area for slavery and murder, but rape is, by definition, non-consensual, forced, and has dramatic repercussions.

The other two do, too, don't get me wrong. But as was already mentioned there's a grey area for murder that includes self-defense, assisted suicide, death penalty etc.

Slavery used to be a not too bad - and temporary - punishment. In the early days of Greece and the Middle East and Egypt anyone from a peasant to a king could become a slave, so there didn't used to be a race component. Secondly, they were temporary. For example a neighbor wronging another neighbor would be their slave for...three years, then freed. Or maybe one generation. The point is it didn't used to matter who you were or what you looked like. A long time ago, it was almost fair.

I'm not sure how to react to the statement that rape can be fetishized. I can argue that it would make it more tempting to commit rape. Of course, I get off on mind control porn and that's a branch of the same tree. They're willing, but you warped their will to be that way. And making it more appealing doesn't mean you're going to do it. I haven't kidnapped a woman and made her listen to subliminal messages in front of a swirling spiral and I don't intend to.

I guess I can't argue against a fetish. But I can argue against the act itself. Slavery as we know it in America is awful, but there used to be a better version of it that was more like indentured servitude. Killing someone depends on the circumstances, and what they're going to do if you don't. But the actual action of rape has no grey area. It never used to be better. You can't save your life or someone else's by raping someone.

 

[Diana]

I went with slavery. Because slavery affects more than just the single person enslaved, it damages a huge amount of people for generations even long after the slavery has been destroyed. You can see this in cultures all around the world. Sure you can mass murder and mass rape. But there's something REALLY sinister about the long-term abuse that comes with slavery and how it affects/shapes a people. D:

 

[Quiet One]

Unfortunately, I get the impression everyone can say one thing is worse than the others and have a valid argument. Maybe someone should do a racism vs homophobia one. Kind of run into the same problem, though.

 

[Jakers]

I'd say Slavery, considering the person running the slaves is probably treating them like shit. Using other human beings effectively as living, breathing machines is disgusting. You're removing their freedom, and they'll never be able to enjoy life to the fullest - they'll just be stuck in this endless hell that you've set up for them. Day after day of likely the same thing, under your rule - and the chances are they'll hate every second of it. Yes - they can be liberated and saved - but the sad truth is that they probably won't. In modern times, slaves will probably be saved at some point, but slaves in older time periods will rarely escape their new wheel of life.

Murder and rape is not okay either, by any means, but I'd say rape is the least of the three here. Rape is traumatising and can cause lifetime problems, but you can recover from it afterwards. Yes - rape is awful, and one of the worst insults, if not the worst, you can do to someone. But I just don't think the level of evil comes close to murder, let alone slavery.

Murder is worse because you've effectively deleted the development of a life - but it depends why you're murdering people, and can even be slightly justifiable (but still horribly wrong) in some cases. It's rare that someone commits murder 'just for fun' or for 'no real reason', but if someone ever does, then that's an evil above slavery. But I'm guessing that's not the case here, so it's the 2nd​ worst on my personal list.

But slavery? The chances are the person owning the slaves is racist, a sadist, and often beats those under his sick rule just for fun. If you want to make an evil, horrible villian for your RP - imo slavery is the best way to show they have no regard for human lives around them, and treat other people as toys. What makes things worse is that murder and rape can both occur at slavery workplaces, too, especially in older time peroids. True evil.

 

[Brovo]

This is very informative actually. All great points. Thanks guys and gals! Loving these answers. (As macabre as the subject is.)

 

[Jade]

So, I mulled over my own question while at work, rolling it over in my head for a few hours, and came to my own conclusions that I actually felt like sharing.

I ended up voting murder as the worst of them. I kept struggling with it for a solid three hours, cycling through the same issue: "What causes the most pain?" Eventually I gave up, because they all cause insane levels of trauma that cannot conceivably be properly contrasted or measured. Eventually I settled on a different deciding factor, and that is recovery & hope.

An enslaved person can be liberated.

A person who is raped can recover.

A person who is murdered is the only 100% effective action to prevent that entity from recovering.

Even if a person lived their whole life enslaved, they still have the hope of eventually escaping until death takes them. Even if a person ends up living with trauma for the rest of their life as a result of rape, they can still experience positive emotions and situations, and make impacts on other people's lives. A person who is enslaved or raped, still has the potential to survive and recover, and turn the tables in their favour. They still, always, at some level, have the potential for hope.

A person who is murdered is effectively erased. Everything which they were, ends. It goes a step beyond the pale, it's an action that effectively says "I hate you so much that your continued existence is too much for me to tolerate, even as a victim of my malicious tendencies."

I guess it depends which a person thinks is more powerful: Hope, or pain.

All of these answers are still legitimate. They're all horrible in their own way. This answer of mine is purely personal, and I still want more answers. More information to assimilate and understand.