War... War never changes.

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Seiji, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Save for a rare moment in classical antiquity, there has never been a century in which humans have not waged war.

    War is fought for all sorts of reasons, from petty, vengeance-seeking reasons to socio-political reasons. From differences in religion, to being slighted at having a woman stolen.

    Can you agree with any of the reasons war is fought? Is war ever justified? Under what conditions could you agree with a war being waged? Are you a pacifist?
     
  2. To defend the ones you love from Harm, then yes I completely agree, but for conquest, resources...etc No.
     
  3. SOMEONE FINALLY RESPONDS.

    War is a necessary evil in my eyes. Evil because... well, it's war. The destruction and the mass loss of life is absolutely terrible; no one should be a part of it, be it attacker or innocent bystander.

    But let's face it, it happens. There are evil people in the world, people that crave destruction, and making others suffer. These people will do their best to make things happen that precipitate war: Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jong Il, Ahmadinejad, and that's just modern examples.

    War is something that needs to be waged in the face of evil, and in defense of national sovereignty and freedom. So yes, war is justified, but never as the aggressor.
     
  4. If there isn't a better idea, sure.
     
  5. There isn't always an easy to define villain. If 'we' attack our neighbors, 'we' are to blame. But what if 'they' have stolen from us? What is 'we' use to live there? What if 'we' have been suffering under their domination? What if 'they' had come simply for trade? What if 'they' needed access to our water because theirs had been dried up? What if 'we' said no to them, even though 'we' had enough? What is 'we' feared them and had thought by saying no 'they' would go away?

    This can go on and on and thus you'll have century long wars. Wars so old that you villainize the other but can't recall the real reason for the conflict. They hurt you, and you hurt them back, so on and so forth.
     
  6. There have been so many quotes throughout history on the necessity of war. I disagree with them all. The only time war is justifiable is when the people as a whole you are up against would cause greater misery and destruction. WW2 does not fall into this category as the German people on a whole only supported the nazi party because it gave them jobs and a sense of national unity even if the jobs were making weapons of war. This is why I salute Chamberlain for his efforts to avert war even if they were a fool's errand.

    Preemptive strikes are never justified for this reason.

    There never was a good war or a bad peace.
    - Benjamin Franklin

    War is much too important a matter to be left to the generals.
    - Georges Clemenceau

    And lastly one of my favorites:

    Sweet is war to those who have never experienced it.
    - Latin proverb
     
  7. "Only the dead have seen the end of war."
    -Plato

    Conversely:

    "War cannot be prevented but rather used to the advantages of others."
    -Machiavelli

    Furthermore:

    "War is an effectual means to preserve peace."
    -George Washington

    War is an ugly thing but it's what we humans are best at. We've been at it for millenia and are just perfecting it. The pace at which we do so is just increasing. But a lot of those innovations translate quite well to the civilian world, too many to list.

    Consider the advancement of technologies a beneficial side effect of war.
     
  8. Nazi Germany was violating the sovereignty of the nation states around it, forcing their way of life on all around them. They also decided to wage a racial war on those who did not match their definition of racial purity. Two solid evils; war was the only way to stop this machine, especially with the clear intention of Nazi Germany with the invasion of the Rhineland and the Sudetenland. Poland, of course, was the straw that broke the camel's back.

    The only thing that attempting to avert war did was allow the Allies more time to pool resources, in which they did a poor job of. Nazi Germany should have been crushed following their initial invasion of the Rhineland in 1936. Granted, the terrible things that the Treaty of Versailles imposed on the German people was... well, terrible, Germany was still in clear violation of a treaty in which they agreed with with all of Europe. Striking Germany at that time would have been justifiable in my eyes.

    Additionally, I believe in preemptive strike only, and only when, there is a clear and present danger. When enough intelligence has been gathered to prove a group or enemy nation state is an imminent danger, I see no wrong in excising that which would cause harm to yourself or your allies.
     
  9. So true. Many who aren't on the front lines are desensitized when it comes to war - either they think that it's never gonna happen to them, or it's something that is totally cool and should get themselves into.


    I believe this. Even people who are not taking up arms against some threat to their existence can see daily life as a conflict in some way.


    'No progress without conflict,' eh?

    Thinking about war really tears me. If I am of the opinion that slaughter should be committed for a greater cause, or that conflict is something that must be erased from human nature, in either case, I would look like a retard who needs to be shot in the head.

    Show Spoiler
    I was expecting a Fallout thread. Screw this.
     
  10. There is no such thing as an inevitable war. If war comes it will be from failure of human wisdom.
    - Bonar Law
     
  11. "To war is human. then again, so is being stupid" - Me.

    War has and always will exist, and seldom are the occasions where it was warranted, but such occasions exist.

    when diplomacy fails, then something bad is going to happen, be it war or anything else.


    but i agree with the "if you havn't been there, you dont know a fucking thing about it" mentality completely.
     
  12. The way I see it war has changed. We now fight for ideals, while before war was a necessity to our survival. Why would you attack your neighbors? Because they have something, technology, a resource, anything, something you need for survival.
    Back then it was necessary but now, I do not know.
     
  13. We still fight for resources, trade, diamonds. Only things thats changed is the big powers are too big to mess with, even with eachother.
     
  14. Yes we do still fight for resources, but we don't know when to stop fighting once it is no longer profitable. The US is a good example of that, stablizing the Middle East and establishing a foothold could help us greatly, especialy if we could tap into the mineral veins there, but due the the civil unrest, that is impossible.
     
  15. The time wars don't incur casualties at all is the time I can say it has truly changed. I may need to read up on my history about that though.

    The problem with reasoning like that is that it can be used as cover. Perhaps a nation's leader just doesn't like these people hanging around their hood, or, like you mentioned earlier, maybe the guy next door has something one country doesn't.
     
  16. No man marches to war thinking god is against him.

    Can't remember the exact quote or who said it. Bottom line is all men fight for ideals. Its rulers and countries that fight for material gain.
     
  17. I don't like this type of thinking. It seems to basically nullify the point of bothering to document a lot of history behind war, what leads to it, and its aftermath. There are a lot of things that you can learn without having to have direct experience with it; not just war-related either.


    I'm very skeptical of the whole "I'm fighting for ideals" way of thinking. It's a nice and romanticized way to view soldiers, but eh, doesn't really mean a whole lot if they say that and then all we really see are the places they're fighting for getting crappier while the ones heading it are committing human rights abuse and other questionable things behind the gains they make.


    Personally, I like and agree with the "Not Even The Dead Have Seen The End Of War" quote much more. War doesn't end when you die, only you. A war may set up the stage for more conflicts anyways.
     
  18. thats the way its always been mate.

    politics, religion, it all comes down to ideals in the end. always.