Villain pet peeves

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Pharaoh Shadon, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. I'm sure we all have those villains/villain tropes you don't like. I wanna hear what some of those are :D I'll go first. Now i'm not too good at explaining things like this, so i'll use examples.

    Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)
    I don't like villains like Frieza, he just goes around being evil fro the sake of having an evil character. I know lots of villains do that, but Frieza gets above my scale of acceptable. How so? "You made me train for the first time in my life. That cannot go unpunished"

    Yeah, okay -.- Keep being a try hard Frieza.

    Aizen (Bleach)
    What don't I like about this guy?
    "You're only as strong as you are because of me." "Yes, I already know what the captains did, I am the one who orchestrated that 100 years ago" "I am the one who set this particular thing of my master plan up 10 years ago" "Is that what you think? Actually, I am the reason why you think that way. You see, 40 years ago, I did this, which in a domino effect fashion, effected you this way. And here you are, standing right where I want you, just as I planned oh so many years ago."
    "Actually, I planned for them to die. In fact, I'll kill the last ones myself as they did last a bit longer than I expected."

    When the villain is DIRECTLY responsible for everything on purpose, it gets ridicules. Everything that happens in the series start to loose meaning. Similar for metal gear solid where the answer to everything was
    Show Spoiler


    Madara from Naruto was almost that guy, but then later on, his plan started to crumble a bit, he had to improvise a bit, and then finally, it failed as he thought the final part of a plan was something else. And his last words on his plan? "Heh... Looks like I failed"

    I just don't like villains who are all about manipulation. I actually have a villains side-kick who is all about manipulation, and I don't like writing him XD But he's in my established universe weather I like him or not.

    So those are my primary ones I don't like, what about you all? :D
  2. Villains that talk a lot of shit, in fact, they take an entire episode or precious time talking about shit instead of doing what they need to do to give cause why they are doing the things they're doing in the first place. I despise villains that feel the need to have to speak a breakdown of their attack or are generally cocky.
  3. I don't like villains with bad motivations

    well not "bad" motivations, since they're, y'know, the *bad guy*, but like, poorly written motivations, such as doing evil things just because they're evil.

    "Every well-written villain thinks they're the hero" is a saying I think anyone developing a villain character should keep in mind. No matter how warped their logic, how fucked up their morals, or how despicable their methods, the villain should feel convicted about what they're doing that it's the right course of action.

    They may believe the end justifies their means
    They may believe that the harsh way is the only way to fix things, and they're the only one with the guts to do it
    They may believe the hero is legitimately a horrible person who needs to die for the good of the world
    They may believe they are entitled to revenge or some kind of compensation for something
    They may believe they are the only one who can fix things
    They may believe their actions are the will of a higher power

    The list goes on, but all of these are better than doing bad things just because they're the villain!
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  4. I hate villains that are obsessed with a female character for NO CONCEIVABLE REASON. Why are you kidnapping that girl? Why are you in loves with her?! D:< Just cause she is pretty and shiny? There's GOTTA be more to it than that.
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  5. Villains who want to destroy the world/universe/multiverse are the worst. I can deal with it if their plan is to like destroy it and remake it as the god of the new place or something, but just total annihilation which includes the villain also being destroyed? Dumb and lame, never seen a villain where they made that feel believable or good in any way. It always seems to come as a silly way to up the ante because you can only have so many "I wanna take over the place" before it feels stale and you need to give the villains scarier plans.
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  6. This. Seriously. Chaotic stupid is the worst alignment for a villain and such a ridiculously common one. Chaotic villains should be agents of change and change should have a purpose, a benefit for somebody, at the very least a benefit for the villain in question.

    Another thing that bugs me is when villains that are supposed to be sympathetic get rushed character development. It needs to take more than 30 minutes to explain why the goody two shoes paladin decided to become king of the underworld and attempt to enslave the world.
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  7. That sort of thing CAN work if given the right motivation. Though usually it boils down to the villain being extremely mad at all creation and wanting to destroy everything, or wanting to re-create the universe in his own image (i.e. destroying the current universe so that he can basically be the 'God' of the next one).

    If done right, it can work, but all too often it's just used as a device for 'upping' the level of jeopardy. Unless the villain's motivation is given a lot of time to develop, then they're going to come across as what TV Tropes might call a Generic Doomsday Villain.
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  8. I agree with Minibit-chan. For a villain to be effective and sympathetic, they must have a reason to kill people/destroy the world. Villains who just want to get rich or rule over the world is just stale and boring in my opinion. "I am evil because evil is fun" is my most hated mindset when it comes to creating an antagonistic/villainous character. The pleasure of being evil is actually disgusting if you think about it. When I create a villain, I first create a reason why they became evil in the first place. Hated by the world? Check. Lost everything (family, friends, home)? Check. I don't know why, but I always create sympathetic villains rather than plain evil villains.

    "Evil is just a word. Under the skin, it's simple pain."
    - Eleanor Lamb (from BioShock 2)
  9. Edmund Kemper, real life Serial Killer, made his first kill (his grandfather) just to see how it would feel. He was deranged, and never saw himself as a hero. I agree a villain needs reason to do what they do if they're to be major villain (no one cares why generic power rangers minion does what they do, we just care that the ranger beats them, but we care why the main villains do it), but it doesn't always have to be one where they see themselves as good.
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  10. Ok, perhaps I was a little too liberal with my use of absolutes there. In my defence, the bolded bit was a quote, and it's hard to fit "villains who do evil things just because they're villains, or just because the acts are evil, are poorly written. A villain needs to have a motivation beyond simply being a villain, although that was Megamind's motivation and he worked out but even then he just saw himself as filling a needed role, and in fact lost his drive when he was just being pointlessly evil with no hero to battle. Obviously not every villain should see himself as the hero, but at the very least they should be able to justify their own actions in some way; 'it was necessary', 'it's not a big deal', 'somebody had to', 'my ends justify my means', 'it literally doesn't matter' 'I was curious' 'it's part of progress', the list goes on. But at the end of the day 'this villain does evil things because they (the character and/or the actions) are evil' is poor character building" into anything succinct. I'm sure people could nitpick or find loopholes in that more long-winded reasoning (or at least my hastily thumb-typed grammar) as well, but my hope is always that the core of the message gets across, and that while exceptions always exist, the idea remains one of merit.
  11. I find it amusing how one of the most popular villains of all time for the most part just wants to watch the world burn.

    Then this thread.

    Chaotic evil requires a certain charisma. A certain flair to make characters compelling to watch, even if you don't know much about them. Alternatively, when speaking about villains with little to no discernible motivation, there is the force of nature. This type of villain is probably not chaotic evil, they're more of an indiscriminate and overwhelming power that is not for the hero to defeat, but to survive or escape.

    Both these types of villains can actually be made more effective by withholding their motivations. They are alien entities to the audience. You write them differently than your protagonist, but that doesn't mean the archetype is bad per definition. It's just harder to get right. LOL LETS KICK PUPPIES isn't doing it right, that's shitty writing. Not the archetype's fault, but the writer's.

    Also consider, a villain isn't just it's own character. An antagonist is the cause of most strife for the heroes. It puts them through physical and mental challenges. Forces them to change and adapt. That's what a villain needs to do first and foremost. This can be so many different things, and sometimes a villain only needs very little screentime to get their purpose across. An alien entity simply to fear or a deranged character that cannot be logically comprehended can be good at their jobs; challenging the hero. You may not sympathise with these villains, but you fear them (and maybe fear a little bit of yourself) along with your heroes. Pulling that off properly is good writing all the same.
    #11 Kestrel, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  12. Supposed-to-be-smart-and-intimidating-but-actually-dumb villains who talk a lot. *Looks at Starscream* At least he's better in exRID.

    Also, villains who let their egos and confidence easily overpower them. Like, how high up your ass is your head if you're facing someone guaranteed to stop you (like they did countless others like you) and you don't even watch out?
  13. I think a good thing to remember with regards to villains is that variety is the spice of your life. If your rp is open to having different storyarcs and thus different villains, you've got a lot more freedom to pursue a wide variety of different villain types, be it from the far more decent and practical villains that Minibit has suggested, to absolutely chaoticly evil characters as well. I think it can give an rp and the participants within a great breadth of options and scenarios and fun with which to react. Sometimes they can be extremely indepth characters, other times not. S'all good in my opinion!