Transgender Mental Illness or Biological Component [M]

Status
Not open for further replies.
At some point in the last ten years, the number of gender/sexual orientation labels just got way too numerous for me to keep track of...or really care about, mainly because as long as you don't shit on my lawn and drop french fries in my car, I'm cool with you.

Homoromantic.

Transgender.

Asexual.

Aromantic.

Gay.

Lesbian.

Bisexual.

Cisgender.

Demisexual.

I consider myself a tolerant man. I also consider myself a simple man. I was quite happy when I could conceptualize straight, gay, and lesbian.

I was quite happy when cis and trans referred to the orientation of molecular bonds in fatty acids, rather than gender.

I was happy when aromantic was missing a letter and spelled "aromatic."

The point is, all this is quite beyond me - and I readily admit that.

Mainly because all I care about is whether or not you're shitting on my lawn or eating french fries and spilling it in my car.

Don't do either of those things, and we're good.

I am a man of simple needs.
 
As I said there are SOME mental illnesses links, but there are Also Just as Man Genetic And Biological Links

Actually... Should probably respond to this while I'm at it and clarify the conversation. It's not like I have anything better to do on the bus.

In order for something to be natural it has to have biologically traceable and/or explainable ties. Otherwise, it's just a social construct--which is something certain Christian groups have tried (and failed) to argue about with gays and lesbians for years. If it's a social construct, it's a choice. If it's biological, it's not a choice. Even mental disorders generally have biologically related cause-effect. You can see the difference in brain scans between someone who is depressed, to someone who is psychotic, to someone who is within normal parameters.

For example: Male and female are naturally occurring in nature. We know this because it's fairly self-evident, the XY and XX chromosomes exist, and testosterone/estrogen are related to your physical sex. There is no socialism or capitalism gene: Society and how you react to it determines this. Therefore, someone chooses to be a Socialist, nobody chooses to be heterosexual or homosexual.

So, first, transgender has to be a biologically verifiable thing in order for it to be physical and not just mental. Which, considering we can detect differences in brain scans, it's implying that it's physical. Checkmark that box.

Next, is it a mental disorder?

This is where it gets trickier because the definition of a mental disorder is in and of itself not super clear or well defined in boundary. The rule of thumb, though, is as follows: If a person...
--Cannot control it.
--Cannot understand it to be unnatural. (Ex: A depressed person thinking suicide is okay.)
--It has a detrimental effect on their mental state.
... Then it's probably a disorder.

Now, assuming the transgender gene exists, a person cannot control being born with it. Then again, neither can someone who is comfortable with their sex. Where it falls apart as a mental disorder though is that there are transgendered individuals (better, @Opal ?) Who lead perfectly decent, productive, happy lives, both pre and post op. It does not always cause emotional instability, and any links to it doing so can just as easily be explained with emotional abuse and/or drug addictions and/or improper medical conduct during childhood/teen years. Transgendered individuals are also more than capable of understanding what they are and how it is different from the majority; they're not mentally impaired.

Without distress or impairment, it's not likely a disorder.

The question isn't "is it a mental disorder or is it biological?" Because all mental disorders /are/ biological in some way. (Though they may be triggered into effect by external causes.) The two big questions are...
--Can someone choose to be or not to be transgendered? (Ie: Biological gene, or social construct?)
--Can that same person lead a productive, happy life? (Note that this is purely an issue of numbers. How many lead decent lives vs how many report depression or commit suicide.)

Those are the only two questions that can reasonably be asked about this topic. The former can be resolved by science. (Because biologists are cool like that.) The latter can be resolved through consistent, verifiable statistics gathering and research by psyche majors.

So if you want to know more, start with those questions and gather data. Go from there.
 
God damn it, some transgender homoromantic demisexual spilled french fries in my car.

My lawn may yet be under siege by the "+" component of the LGBT+ community.

And probably the straight component as well.

No one has respect for lawncare these days.

I will defend my lawn.

Who is with me?
 
God damn it, some transgender homoromantic demisexual spilled french fries in my car.

My lawn may yet be under siege by the "+" component of the LGBT+ community.

And probably the straight component as well.

No one has respect for lawncare these days.

I will defend my lawn.

Who is with me?


I know this guy is!

12torino.large1.jpg
 
God damn it, some transgender homoromantic demisexual spilled french fries in my car.

My lawn may yet be under siege by the "+" component of the LGBT+ community.

And probably the straight component as well.

No one has respect for lawncare these days.

I will defend my lawn.

Who is with me?
A man's pride is directly tied with that of his lawn.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Razilin
Alright, well, I thought I should post my thoughts about this topic seeing how I am a transgender myself. First thing I will say is that I am a man who identifies as a woman, however I have no current plan to make a physical transition myself. Being transgender is the understanding that even though you were born as one gender, you look at yourself as another. Now, here are some other differences between me and what I would call a "Traditional" trans man or woman are the following:
1. I don't hate my body. Many Trans Men and Women cannot stand to be the body they are in, they cannot identify with their own body, for they see themselves as the opposite gender. Though I don't personally hate my body, OH HOW I WISH I WAS A WOMAN. There are many, many reasons why I look at myself and identify as a woman, but I don't look in the mirror and say, "I hate who I am.." I look in the mirror and saw, "I would look so much better as a woman.."
2. I have no desire to transition. This is very much in relation to the above, but again I don't feel the need nor have the funds to make a sexual transition. Also on this point I am very happily married to the woman of my dreams, she is my best friend, my most cherished person on the planet. And she is not interested sexually in women. She married a man, as I married a woman. She would be able to be my friend if I decided to transition, even live with me, just not have sex. FUN FACT: F0X LOVES SEX. And F0X loves her wife!! So, loosing that very important connection with her isn't worth me making a transition to be a woman. Though internally I identify as a woman, I have no plans to make that physical change like many trans men and women have to.

So, I look at myself as a woman with a man's body, and that is okay with me. I know I am not truly transgender or what have you, but that brings me to my next point of topic for this discussion.

While there are many choices that have to be made to be transgender, transgender isn't a choice. Just like being Gay, Bisexual, or Lesbian isn't a choice. You don't choose who you are interested sexually with, your body and mind control that. You don't wake up and say, "Yep! I like men." Your body is drawn, attracted, infatuated by a certain gender. Just like a tans man or woman doesn't just flip a switch, its something that is there from a very young age. Now choosing to come out about it and talk about it and change your life style about it, THAT IS A CHOICE. There are so many people who are still, "Living in the closet" because of fear of shaming, hate, ect.

So no, it is not a "mental disorder". A Transgender person doesn't have anything wrong with them, they just cannot accept the gender they are in and have to change that aspect about themselves. The stats the video game on Suicide is really, really silly, because the same could be said back in the day about the "LGB" part of the "LGBT" community before it was as socially accepted as it is now. They don't identify with their own body just like a Gay Man doesn't identify a Woman as a sexual partner.

Also, thought I should mention that being Transgender does not influence your sexual orientation! A Transman is as likely to be interested in men as they are women, and vice-versa. I have a friend who is very close to me who IS transitioning from female to male, and it has certainly been a difficult process, but their partner, who is a man, loves them for who they are, man woman whatever. So that is something they are able to work through together. A lot of people would say that my wife, "Doesn't truly love me because she'd be okay with your transition if you went through with it", and that is where I have to defend the fact I stated earlier. She would LOVE me, just not in a sexual way. Thus, that would hurt me more than hurt her. I'd want sex from the woman of my dreams, and she wouldn't be about it. Its not her fault I made a change to my body completely. She'd still be my friend, my partner in crime, just not my partner in the bedroom. You cannot expect to change a person's sexual preference just because you want to make a transition. If you transition, you might be mentally, emotionally, spiritually the same person, but physically you are not. And that kinda matters for sex.

I feel that ALL people need to be comfortable with their body, and if they have the mans to change it, POWER TO THEM. It shouldn't be looked at as a disorder of any kind, because as far as I am concerned, if being transgender is a mental disorder, so is being homosexual and bisexual. Nature says that we should strive to reproduce, and that only happens with a man and a woman last time I checked. But just because you're not interested in the opposite gender doesn't mean anything other than, "You are interested in the same gender, not the opposite." Just like being transgender means nothing more than, "I am a gender, but my body doesn't represent the gender I identify with".

So there, after much debate I share my thoughts on the topic.
 
There is no socialism gene
Hah! But we all bleed red, what now capitalist dogs!?


My lawn is safe. Come at me bros/hos/"+"/aliens/robots/zombies/ninjas/pirates/monkeys.
I will not only shit on your lawn. I will mow it before, becouse being nice and polite costs you little.


As for the actual topic at hand. I can only at this time of writing, provide personal insight. I have been a active part of the local LGBT scene for years. And Transexual individuals of both genders have always faced enormous stigma and social pressure. Even from some of my own peers, who are just fine lauding themselves as feminists, Gayrights and what have you, but not being able to adapt or fully accept trans individuals.

I have dated both people who are FtM and MtF. They have been some of the most delightfull, intelligent and well adapted people I have ever met. Accepting, tolerant, healthy, well spoken and charming. Not much different from any of you or me.

I'm firmly in the camp that it is society and its treatment of Trans individuals that is the biggest cause of depressions, suicides and the like.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Love
Reactions: 1 person
Hah! But we all bleed red, what now capitalist dogs!?
Well, I am a socialist. So...

Dasvidaniya, scandinavian pseudo-socialist.
 
You can date, fuck, and whoever you want. You can act however you want. You can dress however you want. You can talk however you want. If you are a male, and want to basically be a girl, That is fine.

I don't care either way. Whatever you want to do is your business. You can even identify as the opposite gender if you would like.

However, on all official records, and when asked you are only 1 gender. (Unless in special cases with both sets of chromosomes.) If you have a Y chromosome, you are a scientific male. If you underwent a sex change, you still have a Y chromosome, and are still a scientific male.

Your personality can be whatever and you can dress however. Though it is a FACT that you are born as a male with a Y chromosome, and a female with X's. (Unless, as stated above, special cases happen)

If I'm talking to you and you like like a girl, dress like a girl, talk like a girl, but are really a male, don't tell me you are a female. You aren't. Tell me you are a male, but that you identify with females more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windsong
If I'm talking to you and you like like a girl, dress like a girl, talk like a girl, but are really a male, don't tell me you are a female. You aren't. Tell me you are a male, but that you identify with females more.

But.....they aren't male........

......so no they shouldn't.

If they look like a girl, sound like a girl, and introduce themselves with a woman's name and voice, they are a woman.

My ex, is a MTF, and she sounds exactly like a woman. And looks exactly like a woman. I called her "She" because she was.

On a side note; I just really wanted to thank everybody for being so civil. This is probably the best discussion I have had in a long while because everyone is being so cordial. <---that's not sarcasm btw, I really mean this. It means a lot to me that we can all be adults about this. So thank you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Razilin
If I'm talking to you and you like like a girl, dress like a girl, talk like a girl, but are really a male, don't tell me you are a female. You aren't. Tell me you are a male, but that you identify with females more.
No, they can say that they're female. Because their gender is female. Their sex is male, but, sex =/= gender.

So if you say "you're born with your gender and you can't change it", you're not thinking of gender. You're thinking of sex, which is biological, and based on chromosomes. If you say, "you're born with your sex and you can't change it", then that would be a lot more accurate.

But if someone fully identifies as female then, yes, they can call themselves a woman -- because that's what gender is. And if they're uncomfortable being thought of as male, then they don't have to say that they are male. Unless you're their doctor, I don't see why anyone needs to tell you what their biological sex is. If someone presents themselves as a woman, and wants to be called a woman, then there's no reason for you to not call her a woman. If you really need to know what sort of genitals someone has, then you can ask specifically about that. ...Although that would probably be considered rude. Probably because a person's genitals really shouldn't matter in most situations.

If a person of the male sex says "I'm a woman", then, she's not lying. And I think this is the thing that bothers me the most, when people insist, "no, you're not a woman -- you have a penis". Her having a penis is irrelevant, because if she identifies fully as female, sees herself as female, and wants others to see her as female, then she is a woman -- because that's what gender is. The only way she would be lying is if she specifically said "I'm biologically female" or "I have a vagina" if those statements weren't true. But, again... unless you're someone's doctor, or you plan on having sex with them, you shouldn't need to know what anyone's genitalia is.

Some trans people might undergo hormone therapy or a sex-change surgery in order to feel more comfortable in their own bodies, but such things aren't a necessity for "being" the opposite gender. People are whatever gender they identify as. That's how that works.

But, even if you still don't agree with me on any of this... why does it matter what gender other people introduce themselves as? Why can't a trans woman call herself what she is, just as easily as a cis woman? Even if you still think she's "technically a man"... what's stopping you from just referring to her as whatever gender she's more comfortable being seen as?
 
The only times someone's original gender matters is in medicine (because male/female have different chemical balances and organs), science (because all possible factors must be understood for accurate tests), sports (because biological males are significantly stronger than biological females on a margin of 20-60% more and so it's not fair to force them to compete in the same arena), and statistics (because data gathering has to be as accurate and as filled with information as possible to be useful).

Beyond science, medicine, sports, and statistics? There's no need for it. People should be free to identify as whatever they feel like and live with the social consequences for doing so in the meantime. In the long run, said social consequences should be reduced and hopefully eliminated through successive generations of education.

If it's not for science, medicine, sports, or statistics, @IamtheecchiKing "on all official records and when asked" is merely a personal preference for you. Don't impose your own creature comforts upon others without having some legitimate reasoning for it.
 
No, they can say that they're female. Because their gender is female. Their sex is male, but, sex =/= gender.

So if you say "you're born with your gender and you can't change it", you're not thinking of gender. You're thinking of sex, which is biological, and based on chromosomes. If you say, "you're born with your sex and you can't change it", then that would be a lot more accurate.

But if someone fully identifies as female then, yes, they can call themselves a woman -- because that's what gender is. And if they're uncomfortable being thought of as male, then they don't have to say that they are male. Unless you're their doctor, I don't see why anyone needs to tell you what their biological sex is. If someone presents themselves as a woman, and wants to be called a woman, then there's no reason for you to not call her a woman. If you really need to know what sort of genitals someone has, then you can ask specifically about that. ...Although that would probably be considered rude. Probably because a person's genitals really shouldn't matter in most situations.

If a person of the male sex says "I'm a woman", then, she's not lying. And I think this is the thing that bothers me the most, when people insist, "no, you're not a woman -- you have a penis". Her having a penis is irrelevant, because if she identifies fully as female, sees herself as female, and wants others to see her as female, then she is a woman -- because that's what gender is. The only way she would be lying is if she specifically said "I'm biologically female" or "I have a vagina" if those statements weren't true. But, again... unless you're someone's doctor, or you plan on having sex with them, you shouldn't need to know what anyone's genitalia is.

Some trans people might undergo hormone therapy or a sex-change surgery in order to feel more comfortable in their own bodies, but such things aren't a necessity for "being" the opposite gender. People are whatever gender they identify as. That's how that works.

But, even if you still don't agree with me on any of this... why does it matter what gender other people introduce themselves as? Why can't a trans woman call herself what she is, just as easily as a cis woman? Even if you still think she's "technically a man"... what's stopping you from just referring to her as whatever gender she's more comfortable being seen as?


Thank you. I forgot to mention that somewhere. That people conflate gender and sex as if they are the same things. They are not. I mean that's why I can wholeheartedly identify as a Demigender. Which means I identify with being Male. I am not like a hundred percent binary because my own Demi views are very much Cis. But I am not Cis because I do not agree with the viewpoints of what identifies as a man. Because I don't fit into the stereotypical scope, it's hard, especially in America, to wholeheartedly identify as a Cis Male. Because of the role of masculinity and femininity play into America.

What I mean by this. And I am a steering away from the main topic in hand, but this is a very necessary conversation when we're talking about gender. What I mean is that Male Model Images are nearly as determental to young men's health, even young adult men's health and the way we view men. Just as much as female role models as well. When America is literally saturated in masculinity being, the sports guy who likes to go hunting, whose the American hero, whose muscular, and has a deep voice.

It becomes very hard to identify with male.

Because if you look at the way our media saturates manhood, or I should say American media saturates manhood, every action hero in the movie is an American Soldier whose Patriotic and fights for his country. Every villain is a foreigner, British, Russian, German, sometimes Nazi, other times Communist, other times just really damn fucking smart and good looking British. Oh and because of the terrorist attacks don't forget Middle Easterns are also the enemy.

There is no celebration for foreign beauty. There is no celebration for brains over brawn. And it becomes very hard, to feel like a man when society goes out of the way to make sure you're not.

I'm short, 5'1". I don't have a deep voice, more like super British nerd voice, I don't have muscles, actually kind of scrawny and narrow. I'm smart. I am not a patriot. And I have a non threatening presence and voice.

All of those are the exception of not manhood. I could show the whole world my cock and balls, but I'd still not be labeled a man because of all the things that go against me in the Version of Fake Manhood Played in our Media, and Real Manhood.

I felt like I should bring this up because it plays heavily in the way we view Transgender as well. Because they break all the social norms, they couldn't be possible be the inflated viewpoints of Feminity and Masculinity.
 
People used to ask this question about gay people (still do, in some corners). Before that, people asked whether blacks were actually capable of intelligent thought or just very good at mimicking white people. Women were at one point believed to widely suffer from an acute mental disorder known as "hysteria".

There are always going to be ugly questions posed under the guise of scientific inquiry about human beings who don't fit into the dominant social group. Because some people in the dominant group will always push for understanding and acceptance, and other people will always seek justification to maintain the status quo. It's herd mentality vs. rationality 101.

A few notes:

1. It's already been pointed out that if we view being transgender as a mental disorder, the same definition would have to apply to homosexuality (or any orientation other than straight). In fact, this definition used to earn homosexuality a place in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the official guidelines for mental health practice in the US). You know when the American Psychiatric Association removed it? 1973. Yeah. Forty-three years ago, people realized that this wasn't a mental illness but essentially an eccentricity of nature. (Although it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows or an overnight shift in thinking, and there are still definitions in the DSM that are used by extremists to justify psychiatric treatment intended to "cure" LGB individuals, let alone the T.)

An interesting quote from this article on the subject:

The 'coming out' of homosexuality from the DSM-II allows us to reflect on the following: (1) change in the concept of mental disorder is slow; (2) diagnosis-making is a social act; (3) the construct of illness and disorder, 'mental' or otherwise is a social one; (4) the construct of illness has social consequences; and (5) shifts in the concept and nature of disorder reflect wider social, political and economic forces more than scientific advancement.


Is it a disorder because it strays from what is accepted as a social norm, or is it a disorder because it (without outside influence, and invariably) causes distress to an individual that prevents them from living a fulfilling life? How do we define disorder- by how it affects the individual, or by how it affects those around the individual?

Which leads to the next point:

2. Social stigma against mental disorder or disease can cause as much or more harm than the disorder itself. There is a lot of shame and fear tied up in mental illness. We used to lock up those with mental diseases in asylums where they were abused and left to rot. Even though mental health care has come a long way since then, still many people are failed and often end up homeless or incarcerated.

According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, the statistics are sort of horrifying.

Chances are that you, reading this, knows someone with some kind of disorder. Probably something minor, but maybe something more severe. Or maybe you have one yourself. Mental illness is not how it's played up on TV; most mental illness is non-violent and most people with mental health needs are capable of holding down jobs when given proper aid. There are a lot of myths and misnomers about mental health.

For example, dyslexia is in the DSM and the ICD (basically the international equivalent). Yes, dyslexia is in there while homosexuality is not. It's a disorder (albeit specifically a learning disorder). Dyslexia doesn't harm anyone but the individual who struggles with it. It can't be cured. Instead, kids with dyslexia are given therapy to help them get by and manage their disorder. No one goes around telling dyslexic people "You spelled muffin wrong, haven't you ever looked in the dictionary? Stop spelling things differently just to get attention."

By the by, although "transgender" isn't in the DSM, "gender dysphoria" is. This is not the state of being transgender itself, but the acute discomfort caused by having a different body and/or being forced into a different social role than the one the individual identifies with. So there you have it.

3. On the subject of trans kids being pumped full of hormones and regretting it later because kids don't know what they want... I understand the reservations and fears going on here. But here are some facts:

- There aren't a lot of statistics on regret for sexual reassignment. This is because of how few people actually manage to achieve transition due to the exorbitant costs and social pressures. Many trans adults choose not to transition, or choose only hormones rather than surgery, for various personal reasons. Also most transitions occur in adulthood due to lack of support from family and- until pretty recently- lack of medical expertise in trans youth treatment.

Of course, regret can and will happen. I did find statistics on regret in MtF (male-to-female) sexual reassignment surgery. According to PubMed, regret may occur in "up to 8%" of cases. Of course this doesn't tell us the reason for the regret. Some of the reasons I've seen actually discussed for regretting hormones/surgery include problems which arise through the limit of surgical science, or due to losing their jobs or social circles over their identity, or other things beyond being mistaken about their gender.

- Hormones are not given to young children because it would fuck up their development. At least in the US, guidelines are for estrogen/testosterone to be started at 16 and surgery after 18. What they sometimes give trans kids at around 12 are called "puberty blockers", which do exactly what they sound like and are intended expressly to address the concerns that kids might not actually know what they want because they're kids.

There was actually a study on those blockers not too long ago. Of the 55 trans kids who were diagnosed with gender dysphoria and were given puberty blockers (average age 14), they found that all of them ended up transitioning years later (average age of 21) and that none of them expressed regret about any part of the transition including taking the blockers. They also didn't have any evidence of remaining gender dysphoria.

Of course, that's one study and there's still a lot of necessary research to be done on the subject. However, puberty blockers have been pretty thoroughly tested and are used all the time to treat kids who start puberty too early. They're safe. What hasn't been fully established is the effects it has on kids when they're actually at the right age for puberty, which is what studies like this are trying to establish. Clinical trials and studies are always necessary to prove whether medication is effective; it's an unfortunate risk that the patients involved are always thoroughly informed about.

- Children can stop puberty blockers, go through puberty, and grow up. It's not an irreversible process, if they decide that they are not in fact trans. However, puberty is not reversible. The older an individual is, the less effective HRT may be in altering gender markers.

Also remember that we're talking about teens and preteens, many of whom have known from a young age that they identified differently from their birth sex and are now being pumped full of hormones that give them mood swings and make their developing brains more aware of complex social concepts. Remember that middle and high school are fucking hell, socially speaking, especially for individuals who don't fit in. (Herd mentality again.) Remember that what is listed in the DSM is gender dysphoria and that they have spent most of their life relatively physically similar to all of their peers, but now they and everyone around them are developing gender markers and secondary sexual traits. Remember that teen suicide rates are already high.

If the choice is between seeing your child delay puberty with the chance of yet-undiscovered but potential physical side effects or ending up swallowing a bottle of painkillers, it seems very harsh to judge parents for letting their child have some extra time to think or letting them explore a side of themselves that obviously needs to be explored regardless of which way the final decision goes.

Let's also consider this: Wanting to be Elsa instead of Batman for Halloween might very well just be a phase. Wanting to be called Samantha instead of Samuel for five years running is starting to push it for just being a phase.

4. "The trans people I know are all x"

It might surprise you, but it's actually possible you know someone who is trans and have no clue that they are.

This guy is trans:

1428752302927.jpg


So is this lady:

elixher-janet-mock-nude.jpg


And this former Miss Universe contestant:

jenna-talackova3.jpg


Meanwhile, this is a cisgendered woman with hirsutism:

bear.jpg


This is a cisgender girl:

532868c9f6754154a16cb2c6a5262947.jpg


And so is this:

1428688041744.jpg


This is a cis dude:

Zhao-Yiming+2.jpg


And so is this:

1QVWevP5QLw.jpg


So basically, you never know. :U My policy is just go with what the person asks to be called, because I was brought up to be respectful to other human beings. And unless you are dating them, a doctor, or the government, you actually don't need to know that their sex at birth was. Because it doesn't matter.
 
Last edited:
Realized I hotlinked one image wrong in the previous post. Whoops. It's been fixed.
 
I see myself as a compassionate, understanding individual who is totally onboard with LGBT causes and respecting someone's sexuality or gender, but I can't for the life of me understand dozens of so-called genders and labels that feel like they popped up overnight. How much of it is scientifically validated? Are new genders really necessary for being a male who has largely feminine qualities while being straight, for instance? What percentage does it change? I just don't feel I can get on board with a lot of it, even though I try to be understanding of the whole thing.
 
I see myself as a compassionate, understanding individual who is totally onboard with LGBT causes and respecting someone's sexuality or gender, but I can't for the life of me understand dozens of so-called genders and labels that feel like they popped up overnight. How much of it is scientifically validated? Are new genders really necessary for being a male who has largely feminine qualities while being straight, for instance? What percentage does it change? I just don't feel I can get on board with a lot of it, even though I try to be understanding of the whole thing.
I'm fairly certain that a lot of so-called "Tumblr genders/sexualities" existed before Tumblr, actually, while Tumblr communities are merely the ones who started to popularize such terms -- though I admit I don't know much about specifics on that.

Anyway! I really don't see anything wrong with more specific terms existing if someone feels that it's an accurate term to describe themselves, especially when someone feels like the labels that they already know about aren't sufficient.

Let's start with an example that's fairly easy to grasp: say for example someone feels unsure as to whether they're gay or straight, because they feel like they're attracted to both men and women. Then they learn what "bisexual" means, and they find it liberating to know that their sexuality is valid -- especially since this means they can now find communities of other bisexuals to relate to.

Now say that someone is feeling unsure of their sexuality because they feel like they aren't sexually attracted to any gender, and that they don't really experience sexual attraction at all. Then they learn the word "asexual", and it's liberating to realize that they aren't alone in what they're feeling, and that they can connect with other asexual people, which, again, makes them feel valid.

Now say that this same asexual person starts to think that they still don't feel any sexual attraction, but that they do feel romantic attraction, particularly towards the opposite gender. Is that a thing?? Is that ok?? Does that invalidate their current sexuality? No, because that's called "heteroromantic", while someone who is romantically attracted to the same gender is "homoromantic", and so forth.

So, of course, calling yourself "biromantic asexual" can sound rather complex -- but I feel like labels like these can be important to people who want to know that what they're feeling is valid, especially when something as daunting as "biromantic asexual" basically boils down to "I date boys and girls but I don't want to have sex with either of them".

Moving on to gender -- say for example that you don't really identify as male or female, like you feel like you don't have any gender at all. You could call that "agender". Or, say that you feel you don't fit within the gender binary and feel like you're somewhere between male and female. You could call that "non-binary". Say you feel like you don't identify with a single gender all the time, but, instead, you feel like you sometimes feel like a man and sometimes feel like a woman. You can call that "gender-fluid".

Now, you might think that some of the terms I just listed are nearly identical, and you're right. A lot of these complex gender/sexuality terms do overlap and say nearly the same thing. But, sometimes, people are just more comfortable with a certain label because of the way the definition is phrased. For example, maybe someone is simply more comfortable being "without gender" than "not strictly either gender", even though, if you want to get super semantic about it, you could argue that they're virtually the same thing.

At any rate, I feel like all of these terms are just words that people use to describe the complex sexualities and genders that people may have. And... I'm ok with that! I mean, I'd have no problem with someone telling me that they feel attracted to people of any gender identity and that they themselves don't strongly identify with any gender, so I'd be ok with them saying that they're "pansexual" and "agender". I'm certainly not going to question anyone's sexuality or gender identity -- if they tell me that they're attracted to such-and-such genders then I'll accept their word for it, and if they tell me they want to be called "they" instead of "he" or "she" then I'm fine by that, too. All this terminology just seems like a way to give a label to any sexuality or gender identities that people might have, therefore giving them an easy way to label themselves. And I'm sure it makes a lot of people feel more comfortable than trying to attach a more "mainstream" label to themselves that they feel doesn't accurately describe them.

That said, if someone doesn't want to use these kinds of labels? That's fine, too. I often see people stressing about what kind of label they should use for themselves, and I always tell them, "feelings first". Just let yourself feel whatever it is that you're feeling, and don't worry too much about having a label if you can't find a good one. And if someone asks what your gender/sexuality is, you can always just try to explain whatever it is that you're feeling instead of needing to commit to a label -- even if your answer is simply "I don't know". If you don't want to use a fancy label then that's fine, but I don't think there's anything wrong with these labels existing for people who feel more comfortable with them.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: chillin and Dervish
Or maybe you have one yourself.
Hello darkness, my old friend. (Those who know, will understand.)

Couldn't love your post more than once. How unfortunate. It really deserves to have like, fifty upvotes and a gold star on it. You nailed it.

@Dervish @Kaga-kun

Most of them have no scientific basis, no. Most exist in the social construct area, but are altogether harmless. The best thing you can do (aside from frustrating yourself with the endlessly changing definitions) is to simply accept someone at face value for whatever they claim to be. Most of them are decent people anyway. As for the crazy nutbars who refuse to talk about anything other than themselves, and their issues, and who refuse to treat you with respect as they shout you down? We have a word for that.

Narcissism.

And if you don't want to deal with them, walk away from them. They come in all stripes and flavours imaginable. Religious to gender to social to political to economic. This behaviour is not unique, it's just unfortunate.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: Dervish
I see myself as a compassionate, understanding individual who is totally onboard with LGBT causes and respecting someone's sexuality or gender, but I can't for the life of me understand dozens of so-called genders and labels that feel like they popped up overnight. How much of it is scientifically validated? Are new genders really necessary for being a male who has largely feminine qualities while being straight, for instance? What percentage does it change? I just don't feel I can get on board with a lot of it, even though I try to be understanding of the whole thing.
Bluntly: None of it is scientifically validated other than the general idea of nonbinary/third gender/genderfluid/agender. No one rational will tell you that there's any biological factor behind any of the other labels.

Here's the thing. Humans love labels. Labels are how we make sense of the world around us and are sort of like short-hand for our brain. It's why we develop hyper-specific vocabulary and/or slang, because even if laymen outside of our specific circumstances and circle can't understand us, it makes it quicker to get our point across. It also can be useful for us to apply labels to ourselves, because we are all constantly striving to better define ourselves as people. Look at all the different denominations within Christianity, for example, some of which are distinguished by a very few slight differences of opinion. This quest for self-identification is especially crucial for young people, and it's generally young people (13-30 or so) whom you will notice focus on these labels most.

@Kaga-kun already explained the benefits of labels in this context pretty well.

I personally don't see any real use for the word demisexual. But if my expressed demisexual friend finds comfort in it and feels better acquainted with herself, and if through using that word she meets others who share common experiences in order to help her feel less alienated... isn't that all to the better?

Expecting general society to be kept abreast of every term is unreasonable, no question. But the labels themselves are harmless.

It's true that many of these terms do pre-date Tumblr, like Kaga said. Of course, there are also a lot of new ones that have surged up. In my opinion this might be partly due to the whole die-cis-scum thing and young people feeling that they have to have some kind of atypical identity in order to not be labeled an oppressor or to have their opinion matter, as well as the advent of what I like to call the "internet hug box" where anything creative is lauded and validated by others so as to avoid having their own stuff criticized, and of course partly due to the much older phenomenons of youthful rebellion and a desire to be unique. It's harmless, but some of it crosses the line into rather silly- which unfortunately DOES sometimes harm transgender folk, because people throw in their hat with the trans community and this can undermine the credibility of trans issues.

I don't care unless you're a dick about it, though.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: Dervish
Status
Not open for further replies.