Transgender Mental Illness or Biological Component [M]

[Sir Salty]

Keep this civil guys, please. So I stumbled upon a video that I wholeheartedly disagree with. I think there are some instances of mental illnesses versus something that is a biological component. The video link is here if you want to watch[but I'm not featuring it because ewww], but it's the reason why I am creating this thread.

I am not transgender myself. I am one hundred percent full bred male. Except that I may have a few issues because I stopped growing in middle school at 5'1". So I have stunted growth, somewhere along the lines of my biology. Point being though is my ex was transgender and someone who I had considered a best friend was transgender. I should mention I am autistic and I mean there isn't much merit or salt in the study, but there is suggestion in the scieintific community that Autistic people are better with nonbinary genders.

Well anyway the point being is I have always believed and considered the evidence and research of it being a biological component. Several studies have shown that transgender may actually have a biological compomnent in when hormones are washed through the system.

Fetal development isn't in one quick moment, it takes months and weeks for something to develop. And it's common knowledge that sexual organs and the brain develop separately. Which is a complete and total reason why someone's brain may be one gender and the sexual organs another. We see this happen with sexual organs all the time.

I am a firm believe that being transgender is not a mental illness. Because evidence between the 1940s- to today suggest. That the person who is transgender may actually have the opposite genders brain.

What are your thoughts? Keep this civil because I know this is an extremely heavy subject, let's not hurt each other's feelings. I just, after a serious of ignorant and very rude Youtube comments. Decided to bring the discussion somewhere wider and distanced from the video.

 

[Windsong]

The brain is a funny thing. It can convince our consciousness that our rapist and kidnapper are our only ally. It helps us rationalize disaster as not so bad or along those lines to keep us from shutting down totally. It can even tell the body to damage itself irreparably just so we survive another few moments in a dangerous situation.

It doesn't seem a stretch to me that a brain (that we know are capable of being wired wrong) is able to convince itself that its being wrong is okay.

Too many variables. But don't expect me to treat a man dressed as a woman (or little girl) as anything but what they really are.

Also seriously fuck anyone who gives hormones to anyone under 18. Too young to fuck with that chemical cocktail that defines who we are for so long in life.

Also, Xeno-estrogens in the environment.

Something else.. Like higher suicide rates of post-ops and 'growing out' of the phase. Can't be assed to look it all up right now.

Now then, let's get this thread under way.

 

[Sir Salty]

The brain is a funny thing. It can convince our consciousness that our rapist and kidnapper are our only ally. It helps us rationalize disaster as not so bad or along those lines to keep us from shutting down totally. It can even tell the body to damage itself irreparably just so we survive another few moments in a dangerous situation.

It doesn't seem a stretch to me that a brain (that we know are capable of being wired wrong) is able to convince itself that its being wrong is okay.

Too many variables. But don't expect me to treat a man dressed as a woman (or little girl) as anything but what they really are.

Also seriously fuck anyone who gives hormones to anyone under 18. Too young to fuck with that chemical cocktail that defines who we are for so long in life.

Also, Xeno-estrogens in the environment.

Something else.. Like higher suicide rates of post-ops and 'growing out' of the phase. Can't be assed to look it all up right now.

Now then, let's get this thread under way.

Being transgender is not wrong.

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan

Now being a six year old or a cat is. As I said there are SOME mental illnesses links, but there are Also Just as Man Genetic And Biological Links

 

[Windsong]

Being transgender is not wrong.

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan

Now being a six year old or a cat is. As I said there are SOME mental illnesses links, but there are Also Just as Man Genetic And Biological Links

Yeah, just about to do some more fiddling and editing.

I'm of the mind right now that I could care less what they are.

The only three trans people I've personally met were all attention whoring and batshit insane. So much as using them in 'a masculine connotation' was enough to send them on a tirade about oppression. Usually everyone just sighed and let them carry on until a manager had enough before telling them to fuck off nobody cares about their personal problems their job was to deliver beer and put back bowling balls.

I miss Steve.

 

[Brovo]

At work, so I will keep it brief (and rational).
--The evidence (brain scans, et cetera) are largely incomplete and unclear. The scientific jury is still out, but from what I've heard, they lean towards "yes these are a biological thing."
--These people are individuals and they should be free to operate however they wish, so long as it harms nobody around them. And, bluntly, it doesn't.
--Yes I've had transgender friends. No this should never be a "point" in my favour. This is the modern equivalent of "I have black friends so I can speak on their behalf." Tss. Let them speak their own mind.
--Leave children out of politics. Teach them to be tolerant but don't force the issue otherwise. Do not biologically alter children to fit a gender identity they profess to have. They're children, they don't know better. I thought I was bisexual when I was a teenager: I was very wrong. Children and teenagers are still exploring their identities, if you change their biological makeup knowing it could do permanent psychological damage if they're wrong? You're a top tier fucko who should be kept away from kids.
--In my personal opinion? Yes transgenders are a thing. Yes I agree with them having the same rights as everyone else. Oh, and as much as I took a pot shot at OP for using the silly argument of "I've known the transgendered, therefore..." @Windsong Citing suicide statistics is inaccurate at the moment because transgenders also go through a significantly greater level of emotional abuse on average. Any group exposed to greater levels of emotional trauma will correlate to greater levels of depression, self harm, and suicide.

 

[Sidhe]

I say this simply in hopes to educate, @Brovo, so please don't take offense: though 'transgender' is indeed listed as a noun in the dictionary, saying 'transgenders' is considered improper in LGBT circles. It's mostly used as an adjective, I.E. 'a transgender man' or 'a transgender woman.' It's kind of a respect thing, like calling gay folks 'the gays.'

As for the proposed topic, I don't currently have time to write a thoughtful post, so I will have to come back to that later.

 

[Brovo]

I say this simply in hopes to educate, @Brovo, so please don't take offense: though 'transgender' is indeed listed as a noun in the dictionary, saying 'transgenders' is considered improper in LGBT circles. It's mostly used as an adjective, I.E. 'a transgender man' or 'a transgender woman.' It's kind of a respect thing, like calling gay folks 'the

Oh, the singular and the plural form are the same? Now I know. +1 To English stat. Thanks.

 

[Sir Salty]

I guess for me I believe gender is not so black and white.

Because I see evidence that what is a woman or what is a man is inherently cultural. I do not behave in the steps of a typical American man, but if I went back into my hometown in Liverpool, England I'd fit in fine.

 

[Brovo]

I guess for me I believe gender is not so black and white.

Because I see evidence that what is a woman or what is a man is inherently cultural. I do not behave in the steps of a typical American man, but if I went back into my hometown in Liverpool, England I'd fit in fine.

Depends. There are both cultural and biological aspects to the sexes. It's complex, but seeing as how we are a sapient species, I like to think that consciousness trumps everything else. (Ie: We are more than the sum of our parts, and should thus be defined as individuals first.)

 

[Sir Salty]

Depends. There are both cultural and biological aspects to the sexes. It's complex, but seeing as how we are a sapient species, I like to think that consciousness trumps everything else. (Ie: We are more than the sum of our parts, and should thus be defined as individuals first.)

Oh I absolutely agree.

I don't normally go around defining myself as Male every time I talk to people.

Clyde is Clyde and that's the simple way I can put it. I don't significantly think of my gender as my only definition of myself. And I don't want to be looked at by my gender. I mean I only get slightly irritated when people call me ma'am because I am not some tall, muscular man, with a bad surfing tan. <----exaggeration. Because I also just don't like to be emasculated either. And I suppose its why I lend so much sympathy to those who are transgender.

 

[Kagayours]

The only three trans people I've personally met were all attention whoring and batshit insane.

"The only three Catholics I ever met were complete Bible-thumpers who said I would burn in hell for not praying every Sunday."

"The only three active feminists I ever met were radical man-haters."

"The only three Mexicans I ever met were rapists and drug-dealers."

This is an incredibly poor argument to stereotype an entire group of people. Maybe the trans people that you met really were attention whores -- I don't want to make a judgement call on that since I wasn't exactly there. Regardless, that doesn't mean all of them are like that. I, too, have met trans people -- lots of very decent people, actually. Granted, I've also met a trans person who was kind of a jackass -- but he wasn't a jackass because he's trans, he was a jackass because people are jackasses sometimes. Trans, cis, white, black, male, female, theist, atheist -- anyone has the potential to be a shitty person. That doesn't mean you can generalize an entire group based on a sample size of a whopping three people.

Regardless, why do you care what gender another person identifies as? If you see someone who looks like a he, but she corrects you and says she's a she, is there really any reason to tell her that she's "wrong"? Is there any reason not to just treat her as the gender she's comfortable as? Does it really harm anyone to do so?




As for whether or not being transgender has a "biological component"? I don't know. I'm not really well-versed enough in the scientific side of things to comment on that. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a biological thing, though. And, honestly, I'm sort of hoping it becomes recognized as a biological thing -- because then maybe trans people will be at least slightly more valid in the eyes of people who insist that one's gender can only ever match their biology.

But, even if there isn't anything biological about being trans... I still don't see an issue with it. Just because someone happens to be born with a vagina doesn't mean they can't still see themselves as a man, for any other reason. And if it makes someone more comfortable to identify as a gender that doesn't match their biological sex... I don't see why they can't be allowed to do that, or why anyone would feel the need to force another gender onto them that they clearly aren't comfortable with.

Like... gender =/= sex. That's really all that needs to be said on the matter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And even if you don't believe that being trans is a thing... if you address someone as "sir" and they politely tell you that they'd rather be called "ma'am", is that really such a difficult request to go along with? Even if you disagree, what's the harm in going along with it to make them comfortable?

 

[Windsong]

"The only three Catholics I ever met were complete Bible-thumpers who said I would burn in hell for not praying every Sunday."

"The only three active feminists I ever met were radical man-haters."

"The only three Mexicans I ever met were rapists and drug-dealers."

This is an incredibly poor argument to stereotype an entire group of people. Maybe the trans people that you met really were attention whores -- I don't want to make a judgement call on that since I wasn't exactly there. Regardless, that doesn't mean all of them are like that. I, too, have met trans people -- lots of very decent people, actually. Granted, I've also met a trans person who was kind of a jackass -- but he wasn't a jackass because he's trans, he was a jackass because people are jackasses sometimes. Trans, cis, white, black, male, female, theist, atheist -- anyone has the potential to be a shitty person. That doesn't mean you can generalize an entire group based on a sample size of a whopping three people.

Regardless, why do you care what gender another person identifies as? If you see someone who looks like a he, but she corrects you and says she's a she, is there really any reason to tell her that she's "wrong"? Is there any reason not to just treat her as the gender she's comfortable as? Does it really harm anyone to do so?




As for whether or not being transgender has a "biological component"? I don't know. I'm not really well-versed enough in the scientific side of things to comment on that. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a biological thing, though. And, honestly, I'm sort of hoping it becomes recognized as a biological thing -- because then maybe trans people will be at least slightly more valid in the eyes of people who insist that one's gender can only ever match their biology.

But, even if there isn't anything biological about being trans... I still don't see an issue with it. Just because someone happens to be born with a vagina doesn't mean they can't still see themselves as a man, for any other reason. And if it makes someone more comfortable to identify as a gender that doesn't match their biological sex... I don't see why they can't be allowed to do that, or why anyone would feel the need to force another gender onto them that they clearly aren't comfortable with.

Like... gender =/= sex. That's really all that needs to be said on the matter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And even if you don't believe that being trans is a thing... if you address someone as "sir" and they politely tell you that they'd rather be called "ma'am", is that really such a difficult request to go along with? Even if you disagree, what's the harm in going along with it to make them comfortable?

Wasn't using it for an argument. Just an observation and anecdotal.

But sure, generalizing is bad.

 

[Cpt Toellner]

Nope.

Not even going to go there.

I don't need more hate.

I'm still living far enough from a major city that I only see a real-life black person about once every two weeks, let alone anyone in the transgendered camp.

 

[Sir Salty]

@Kaga-kun; did you read at all the scientific article that I posted?

 

[GhostJoker]

Here we go...

 

[Kagayours]

@Kaga-kun; did you read at all the scientific article that I posted?

Wait, you mean the "transexual differences caught on brain scan" one?

 

[Sir Salty]

Wait, you mean the "transexual differences caught on brain scan" one?

yes

 

[Protagonist]

Well, I suppose it depends on how we define male and female. There isn't really a solid definition of gender. There's chromosomes, but I'd argue that technically chromosomes cause gender-gender is a symptom of chromosome, but the chromosome isn't gender itself. Physical features are therefore more reliable ways to tell what gender a person is, though there's still the problem of "where do we draw the line?". I suppose that perhaps the best way is simply to check what type of gamete they produce, though that still isn't perfect.

I'd argue that, because of that, transexuals therefore must exist. However, I'd argue that a transwoman isn't so much a woman in a man's body as a male with a feminine brain-therefore. But the body is easier and more ethical to alter than the mind, the only practical solution is to change the body to fit the brain.

On the other hand, there's probably some type of mental illness/anorism that, coincidentally, causes a person to perceive themselves as a different gender than what they "are"-but they aren't truly transexual, they're simply mentally ill and think they are.

Transexuality is arguably an illness, since from what I understand (and I'm not especially qualified to speak on their behalf) transexuals are generally not happy with their situation and would rather their biology matched their gender identities. Ergo, it's a biological illness, but for basically the opposite reasons that most people would suggest.

 

[Sir Salty]

Transexuality is arguably an illness, since from what I understand (and I'm not especially qualified to speak on their behalf) transexuals are generally not happy with their situation and would rather their biology matched their gender identities. Ergo, it's a biological illness, but for basically the opposite reasons that most people would suggest.

So let's take gender and sex out of the equation entirely for a moment here and go into an exercise of thought. If inf act it is a mental illness. Then does that mean, that when treating Depression, we should not give medication to alter the state of mind?

Or bipolar?

I am a paranoid schizophrenic [with some other problems], should I not be taking my medication to live a productive life?

Are we saying "curing" or "altering" someone's state of mind to ease their mental illness is wrong? In this case for Transgender and Transexual. Please stop using the terms interchangeably. Because they mean two different things. A transsexual is someone is transcended their sex, through hormones and sexual reassignment surgery. Transgender is someone who identifies with the opposite of their gender with no reassignment surgery or hormone therapy. Okay with that out of the way.

If Transgenderism is a mental illness, than are you saying we're not allowed to treat this individual? By giving them the ability to choose what gender they want to adopt?

 

[Kagayours]

yes

No, I hadn't, sorry -- my post was mainly directed at Windsong, anyway.